General Physical Violence- Trigger Warning

[MES]

My wife has PTSD. She was diagnosed during while in inpatient at a local hospital. She'd been outpatient before and is back to being outpatient. She'd on medication for her anxiety and depression and seeing a psychiatrist, a psychologist, and is in group therapy.

She's also grabbing me hard enough to leave bruises and has been every time she's triggered- yesterday we were at brunch with friends and talking about girl scouts, which she never had the opportunity to be part of because of childhood issues. She grabbed my arm to indicate she was having an anxiety attack and I have a bruise in the shape of her thumb from it. I have finger marks on my leg from last week when we were out at dinner. Before she started therapy she slapped me in the face so hard I had a bruise on my chin for a week. She's about my size physically (we're both women), but she is stronger than me, and, I fear, stronger than she knows.

I found out this morning she hadn't been telling her therapist at all about the physical actions at all. I got permission from her to contact her therapist and told her about what had been happening and sent a picture of the bruise. She didn't want to apologize to me for bruising me because she felt that would be taking on responsibility for something that is neuro-chemical and thus out of her control.

I had an abusive childhood (I was 12 before I found out that not all dads give their children black eyes) and I am terrified of escalation because, in my admittedly limited experience, this is how it starts.

I know there can be an element of lashing out violence from PTSD sufferers, but I don't know how violent it can get and when it becomes unsafe. My family wants me to leave her because they are worried about my safety. I don't want to leave her (I love her) and I want to support her, but emotional abuse I can stand, the physical abuse scares me. Is this normal? Will it retreat with more therapy? Should I be worried or is this something that just happens?

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I understand that this is a reaction to a trigger, but you do deserve an apology. Many of us do things involuntarily, but does that mean we shouldn't apologize to the person we harmed? No, it doesn't.

I'm concerned that she believes this abuse is out of her control. This is evidenced by the refusal to apologize and compounded by not even getting help for it. The apology thing is one issue, but not even reaching out for help when she's physically abusing you and hiding behind PTSD? That would be a HUGE sticking point for me.

We aren't responsible for getting PTSD but we ARE responsible for our healing. Your partner has really dropped the ball here. It shouldn't be your responsibility for you to contact her therapist. That is HER job and it will create a bad dynamic. But, in this case, I'd do it since she refuses.

Don't settle for the PTSD excuse. In the end, abuse is abuse.

You should be worried. This isn't common PTSD behavior in that I can't recall it being discussed on the forum before, and I've been here for awhile.

 

[FindingMyself88]

I do not think there is any excuse for abuse. I too was a victim of childhood abuse, so I can see how this would be upsetting to you.

At first when you mentioned she would grab you to tell you she was having an anxiety attack, I was thinking "okay she doesn't know her own strength maybe." But once you said she slapped you, that crosses the boundary line. I agree with Solara in that, it's a huge red flag that she hasn't talked to her therapist about this already. If I knew I was hurting someone, as a sufferer of PTSD, I would be seeking therapy for that as priority.

I do know sometimes in the throws of a panic or anxiety attack I like to grip things and sometimes my grip is strong, BUT I have enough sense about me to grab a pillow or something I can't hurt. Or I even will grab like my own wrist before I grab someone else. If I know I am able to control myself, I will put my dog in my lap and cuddle her, as she is very calming for me. This being said, she can have the sense of what she is doing.

I think you are wise for consulting with her therapist, and it may be that her therapist wants you both to come in and talk about this. Maybe having someone she trust in a therapeutic way will help her realize this is wrong. Stay strong and take care of yourself!

 

[arfie]

This came dangerously close to being a part of my own PTSD experience. I still have no "proof" but I am pretty convinced my father-in-law was a battered husband. My father-in-law had sense enough to marry a dairy maid who traded in her dairy pail for pumps and pearls. My husband married a combat trained alley cat. Being twice my size was not allot of protection for him. Domestic violence was not a part of my own formation, so I was able to remove myself from the dynamics before the holes in the wall started appearing in less patchable targets... To this day, I have no socially acceptable vernacular for the experience.

Most cultures world wide are pretty stubborn about holding domestic violence to Man as perpetrator and Woman as victim. Even in 1980s USA, intelligent dialogue was impossible to find. My father-in-law's need for two eye surgeries was not worthy of a blink. Pun intended. Despite the popularity of empowered Barbie tv detectives, people look at my 6'5" husband towering over 5'6" me and say, "Yeah, right!" My own solution was a three year separation while I did intensive work on my own PTSD issues. When I feel "goaded" by my husband, I choose flight before I can get to the fight. My combat training included ways to sidestep goading. We are responsible for how we use our training under all circumstances.

Guess I'm rambling here. Not sure where to go with it, beyond saying I believe you should take it seriously.

 

[Lucycat]

I am not for one moment condoning her action. However there is a little niggle in the back of my mind wondering if you bruise particularly easily? In which case you should get it checked out.

To grab your arm - but leave a bruise is not right. I can grab Rory's arm for comfort but he will not bruise. To slap and leave a bruise is unusual - it sounds more like a punch to me. On the other hand Rory can hardly touch me and It will leave a bruise. I have had blood tests to rule everything out and I am fine - I simply have a tendency to bruise.

So - I am asking do you bruise easily, or is she being much more forceful /violent that you describe?

 

[MES]

I am pale, so bruising does show up more easily, but I'm also diabetic and have an immune disorder so I get blood tests every three months and there's been no mention of anything that could cause bruising more easily medically. I have to prick my finger four times a day and always use the same finger/spot and I only have a tiny, near invisible discoloration from that.

She also grabbed my face during the incident when she slapped me. It was only a small bruise on my chin and I could cover it with makeup- my apologies if I made it seem like she gave me a black eye or something, it was just about the size of a finger tip. I just assumed it was from the slap because that actually hurt, it turned my head and my ears rang a little, the face holding was just tight. I know she does not intend to hurt me by any means, I think she got carried away and didn't realize her own strength.

It's entirely possible it comes down to me bruising easily, but she grabbed me hard enough yesterday to make me gasp when she did it and it's still tender to the touch. The ones on my leg last weekend I didn't realize she'd left until I got home and have already started to fade. She didn't leave marks on my neck when she grabbed the back of it (back! no choking) to hold on to me Thursday, though I thought she had.

She's trying to carry stress balls to squeeze instead of squeezing me and that seems to help, but she doesn't usually remember to carry them.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I don't think @Lucycat meant that it was all your fault for bruising easily. So what if you didn't bruise at all? Her behavior is still unacceptable!

 

[Deleted member 19804]

It's entirely possible it comes down to me bruising easily, but she grabbed me hard enough yesterday to make me gasp when she did it and it's still tender to the touch. .

Like @Solara said, whether or not it leaves visible marks, physical violence is not okay. The stress ball is a good idea, perhaps you can get one on a keychain or something like that? So she will always have it with her. But don't talk it down to you bruising easily, she simply shouldn't hurt you. And if she does, whether it's an instinctual response or on purpose, it is no more than logical to apologise.

 

[franciemarnie]

Whatever the reasons why, violence is never okay. There must be consequences or there will be no change.

Slapping and grabbing hard is unacceptable. You must be safe. If she will not hold herself accountable for her actions, it will continue.

If she "can't help it", you have to get out. That's my vote. Easy for me to say from a distance though. More difficult to implement.

You must be safe.

 

[The Albatross]

Forget the bruise easily thing... focus on the slap to the face. Way way out of bounds and I'm glad you stepped up and consulted with the therapist about what is going on.

Perhaps in session jointly if she is willing, you could mediate another signal that she is triggering could be worked out. It could happen. But putting your hands on somebody in an excessive way is totally inappropriate, period. If the behavior is reinforced, it is difficult to irradiate. We teach people how to treat us, all of us... PTSD or not. Set the boundary and hopefully it can be worked out in therapy.

As for the emotional abuse, I'd deal with that too once she can keep her hands off you.

 

[Hashi]

I don't see why she has to grab your arm at all, let alone slap you. I have people in my family who grab me when they want to get my attention or emphasise something. It's a very dominating and controlling thing to do. (Unless it's done gently and the other person is clearly OK with it.) It's all about them, to an extent that isn't acceptable. If you've raised concerns and there's no apology then this isn't something inevitable with PTSD, it's abusive.

If you heard that a man with childhood issues and PTSD was doing this to his partner, what would you think about it? Do you see it as any different because your partner is a woman with PTSD?

emotional abuse I can stand, the physical abuse scares me

Why should you stand emotional abuse? Why should you be abused in any way?

 

[Loveneverfails]

Usually I cringe when people chime in with the 'ptsd is no excuse' mantra. But in this case it absolutely fits. Her refusal to apologize means in all likelihood it WILL escalate. She isn't acknowledging a need to control herself and thus is excusing herself from doing so at all. You are in very real danger here and it seems to me like you know it and are searching for some reason, ANY reason to believe she will change.

People can change. But they have to WANT to. That starts by acknowledging there is a problem. She is using PTSD as a crutch currently for the undoubtedly tumultuous emotion rattling around in her brain. Until she is willing to take charge of her disorder and stop hiding behind it, change will never happen.