Plunging Deeper.

[Go Hungry]

Okay so... found some stuff out. I was putzing around my apt last night thinking about things, and how I'm trying out this whole "Let go and let God thing. And I'm not exactly sure how, but it washes over me that even back then when I was a little kid, I was looking to God to fill me and make me feel good about myself. I was basing my self-esteem on my perception of Gods' view of me. Which is a terrible idea in the first place, since the first thing the Southern-fried Baptists teach you is that God hates you for the sin of being born. A really terrible role model for a kid.

Anyways, so I went on and made the further connection that I was debasing myself and whipping myself to show my contrition for all my sins, (keep in mind I was 11-12 at this time) and while I recognize that this is exactly what the church wants you to do (ie hate yourself because God hates you, and place all your faith and energy into pleasing him; truly it is a horrid trap for kids) I was still failing to see anything of worth in myself. One way or another, even at that young age I was living for another rather than myself. I was loving God because I was counting on him to rescue me. I was in fact trying to manipulate God with my hysterics. I was co-dependent even at that time, but with a deity.

So when God didn't show up in a hail of angels to rescue me, I felt an extreme betrayal. Like I had been used and exploited, which is exactly what a codependent thinks when the object of their idolization ends up being less than perfection. I can totally forgive myself because, lets face it... The churches do indoctrinate kids, I was manipulated by them during a time when it was in my nature to give perfect trust to authority figures. *shrug* What can I say, I was a child... But then there's more.

So I figured, if even at this young age, I was already codependent.. What on earth made me that way? What happened before I was 8 in my life that would make me look outside myself for approval from others? My brother hadn't started beating me at that age, and the kids at school hadn't started being bastards by then. That all came later... I remembered something my Mom told me that I used to do when I was little. I would call myself a 'no count, bad boy' when I was little. I had no memory of this, so I wondered just how young I was when I said those things. I remembered how many people on this board talk about traumas that they have no memory of. So I called Mom.

She got kinda choked up on the phone, and said that she was hoping that I would never ask about this. I told her it was really important to me. So she tells me that I was about 2 or 3 years old when I would say that. I asked what was happening, why I would say that. Then she told me that my father would denigrate me and yell and tell me that I was a rotten kid even at age 3. She said that when I would apologize for something he would respond "Well you really -are- sorry." ("Sorry" being a pejorative in this context.) Then she started talking about how he would act in general (which was utterly horrible and abusive towards my Mom), and it sounds like he was clinically depressed and already a secret alcoholic and drug-user.

And it all clicks. The reasons he would act like that, the way that I 'learned' that I was worthless at such a young age. Everything. I don't hate my Dad. He and I have become good friends (through alcohol, seems like he was always looking for a drinking buddy within my family; first my Mom, and then later with me.) But still I love him. I just have to keep my distance because he's still a very unhealthy guy, and would very much like for me to start drinking again.

So I'm going to tell my T about all this on thursday. I wonder where we'll go from there.

 

[scout86]

That sounds like a big break through! Good for you!

On the first part, remember, there's "Religion" and then there's "God": Not the same thing and, often, "Religion" gets things horribly twisted.

 

[LilBit]

Hmmm, not Southern Baptist, but old school Pentecostal. I don't think they teach that God hates you for being born. But they DO teach an unreasonable standard of perfection. And I totally relate to feeling set up for betrayal. They need to focus far more on the fact that sometimes God's answer to prayer is NO. And sometimes it is WAIT. I still live with the knowledge that in their eyes I will never ever measure up. If you have been abused/molested, if you have issues due to trauma, if you have substance or addiction issues, you just don't fit their mold and feel forever outside. I love my church and my people but I still fit misfit somehow.

 

[The Albatross]

Very glad Go Hungry that you received some validation about what conditions were in your home life and that your treatment at an early age may be the root of some of your later difficulties. My own mother, was not as forth coming as her own mind (also abused herself by my father) was full of blanks like mine is, however she stayed in survival mode and lived that way for many years. It was difficult to say my father was abusive for her and us (my brother and I), even still she gets reactive if discussing it. It is pretty much useless for me to try to initiate these types of discussions with her, as they are so very detrimental.

She has provided me with some information, but carries a lot of shame and guilt about her part of the family dynamic and what it has done to our family.

 

[Chava]

Wow! Good work! The God thing is very murky and hard for me. I had a good connection for a while when I was a kid, because God was really magical and I believed he was taking care of all children everywhere, even non-Christians (pretty good for a little kid). But that simply dissolved. In my 12-step work, I've kept with the idea of being "open" to a conception of God. I am, but since it's so murky, it's very hard to trust.

Anyway, I have thought that our ideas about God are probably a mix of being taught certain things about God and about our connection to our parents. God is a bigger reflection of the idea of a loving-protecting (or damning) parent. If you can't trust the adults who should care for you, how should you trust "God"? It's probably possible, but my lack of trust reaches in all directions. My relationship to God is quite similar to my relationship with people. If God works through people, which would make sense, I need to work on human relationships and maybe trust the God thing might become more clear. Or my idea of God has to be less personal and more about the world having some sort of order and okay-ness that I can sync into at times (can relate somewhat to Taoist and Zen views, or the Hindu concept of Brahman).

It's probably scary to get that sort of news about your early childhood, but hopefully validating and helpful. I wish I could remember life before age 4. My mom doesn't remember much of my childhood, so no help there. I just have to trust the murky therapy process without much knowledge.

 

[Go Hungry]

Thanks for all the kind words guys. Yeah.. well actually for me nowadays it's "Let go and let Goddess." Not sure how well that would go over for the 12-steppers here in the south so I'll just stay in the broom-closet about that. :D

 

[The Albatross]

12 steppers care more about conscious contact "of the god/God of your understanding". We had a guy in my home group who's higher power was his guitar. It was the concept that was more important that the deity.

 

[Chava]

With the 12-step language, we still have openness where I'm at, but everyone seems to talk about a personal "relationship" with God, like God is a person. I feel clueless about that, but I'm sober anyway and grateful to the grace of something...

 

[The Albatross]

I wasn't intending to go into the angry at God thing. But I will share, that I felt immensely discouraged and fearful that "God" seemed to be "letting these things happen to me" and that I was "forsaken" as a preteen and teen when I was beginning to understand the problems in my home and be affected by the hopelessness of it to the point of depression, suicidal ideation, cutting, some attempts at asphyxiating myself with nooses (trying to will myself to die, not realizing how difficult it actually is) and rage.

With respect to religion, spirituality, and 12 stepping... I struggled fiercely with the numerous references to "God the father" as my father was my first abuser. It was with a lot of guidance from my mentor/sponsor that I could normalize the term and get past the emotional reactivity to begin to see the deity not with my direct experience of my own father, but within the framework of a "perfected" (for lack of a better term) Father. One who is a soothing balm for the hurts, wounds, and injuries as I deal with the slings, arrows and adversity in this life.

Not really wanting to turn this into another thread on religion. But wanted to give feedback @Go Hungry as it seems to be appropriate in your opening post and I could relate to it in your opening post.

I was convinced I was under spiritual attack and did not find counsel in religious institutions to help me deal with the facts of my abuse in my family, tools or study topics to help me square up my daily life with the teachings of the Bible. I struggled with, for instance the phrase about the sins of the father's being visited unto the 3rd and 4th generations and was convinced that God had cursed me or condemned me regardless of whether or not I was sincerely His, one of his called ones. It took a good deal of study in adulthood to adopt a different, more generally beneficial concept. And it is, to me a concept: What best serves and is more generally beneficial? To live a life cursed by God under sins of my parents unto the 3rd & 4th generation, or to live a life seeking, asking, knocking for God's assistance in my life?

I chose the latter.

 

[The Albatross]

Doubled back to add that the "higher power" concept assists me in navigating the times with my PTSD reactivity and/or my Substance Abuse Disorder when my own will power fails. When 12 stepping I decided that I could accept the tools and endeavor to use them in my life right now and leave off the unknowable question of my status with God "as I understand Him". That distinction is problematic in religious circles... but it is not in my daily life because it helps me to focus more on my day to day accountability and actions.

I can lean on it now in adversity and during times where my self will fail by adopting the methods and tactics in my chosen faith as laid out in my book (the Bible) and at least get a hand hold or foot hold so as to stop the slide into the mental/emotional abyss.

Sorry to have brought this off topic. I won't comment further. Felt inclined to lay out for you what my own process was so far as the 12 stepping and religion.

 

[The Albatross]

@Go Hungry the validation you received from your mother is significant. I hope that you will retrieve it and keep it available when you have personal struggles.

 

[Go Hungry]

No @The Albatross, it's really good to know this stuff. I've had a great deal of trepidation about the whole God thing in 12-stepping. You and @Chava have made me feel much more at ease. :)