Ptsd And Our Children

[Jimmy1]

Anthony has written a few articles on this subject and Steve brought up some comments too, but I did not want to overload their threads.

The actual topic being discussed is more about what they call 'Secondary PTSD', or as Steve put it 'Intergenerational PTSD'. Basically, by us veterans living in a house with our children causing our children displaying attributes of PTSD.

The other part I would like to discuss is what percentage of veterans who have PTSD from their own service, had a parent who had PTSD.

What I would be keen to know is how many of us veterans with PTSD had a family member while growing up that had PTSD. I for one had a father who served in both the Navy, the Army, and then finished with 32 years as a Police Officer. Now that I know about the disorder, I can safely say that I believe in all honesty that he had PTSD. He used to use a belt if we misbehaved, and he used to go off like a frog in a sock over silly shit, but I don't think I displayed any attributes.

Prior to me going overseas to a war zone though, I don't think I ever displayed any attributes. These came about only after war service. So, my father having PTSD did not affect me unless it made me more susceptible to it.

My son has had some depression and anger issues, but are they related to my PTSD, or are they related to our marriage dissolving?

My therapist would tend to believe it is related to my PTSD.

Thoughts??

 

[Zipperhead]

PTSD as a learned behaviour. If our children were to adopt some of our behaviours as a mimic of what they see around them as normal.

The worst part of PTSD that we all endure is how we feel, and how our mind reacts (or fails to react). Kids can't see our minds. They can't see that big flash when we remember the IED strike. They can't see us sweating as we sleep, or whimpering when we wake. What we portray to our children as a result of these feelings is up to us. Yes, I am strict and demanding when one of my rules is tested. Yes, I probably have move rules than our average civi. But my rules are fair and easily accomidated. I have chosen to never hit my child, and have never violated that decision. I have chosen to ensure that my child has the ability to talk to me, and would never punish him for anything he comes and tells me. We may discuse it, I may have to send him to his room until I am back in a better place, but I will never allow him to fear telling the truth. If he learns these behaviours from me then I think he will do just fine.

As for the observable behaviours, so what if he sticks to the edge of crowds. So what if he avoids chaotic places. So what if he feels the need to avoid dirrect sun light and learns to listen instead of leading conversations. There are worse social graces, and I am dealing as best I can. I encourage him to play with the other kids in the neighborhood as often as possible. The unfortunate truth is that this is where he will learn who he is. I can only show him so much, and then pray he is smart enough to fall the right way when he hits that brick wall called life.

PTSD as a hereditary trait. Interesting angle.

My dad was Navy. He only did one term. He was strict. He was tempermental. He was borderline abusive. He did not have PTSD. My mother suffers from depression. She is demanding and overly critical of our every move. She also does not have PTSD. My symptoms did not really surface until I released from the military after 22 years service, and realised I didn't know how not to be a Sergeant. I had symptoms for the last 14 years if I look back with honesty. I have had severe symptoms for the last 3. But my ability to deal with them when I was surrounded by my peers was adequate. When I lost that security blanket, I fell apart.

As far as my son showing similar social behaviours because of me, I'm hoping therapy for me will help prevent anything like that. Will he be more prone to depression? Maybe. Will he be more prone to PTSD? Maybe. Will he be more willing to seek help instead of suffering for 3 years by himself? If he's not, I may have to break that no hitting rule.

 

[Jimmy1]

I think we also have to take into account the military conditioning as well.
Don't whine if your hurt, keep your room clean etc, etc.

 

[Zipperhead]

I think that's where the well defined rules come from. Boundaries we impose, to mold them into our perceived ideal. Maybe it's not fair to expect our kids to live up to our notion of what it means to be a man. But I can think of worse role models than 90% of the guys I served with. There aren't many professions out there that instill that dignity and pride. That feeling of self worth. Is it wrong to want that for our children? Don't get me wrong, if my kid joins the Armour Corp, I'll throttle him. But then I'll sit down and have a beer with him, and tell him I'm proud.

 

[Jimmy1]

How about Monday morning. My boy complained of a sore throat. I told him to basically harden up and go to school and I would make a doctors appointment. Margaret told me he should stay home as his tonsils were infected.
I ended up taking him to the doctors. He has pretty bad tonsillitis and is on antibiotic.

Now, if I did not have Margaret in my life, it could have been way worse for him. That is the old harden the f*ck up from my Army days

 

[Zipperhead]

You're no Doctor. You said you'd get him an appointment. What else does Margaret want you to do about it? Hey, we can beat ourselves up better than anybody. But when reality pisses on our parade, sometimes we have to suck back, reload and admit it's not our fault. There doesn't have to be a person to blame. and as far as Margaret having more compassion than you, most moms do. My wife's a bleeding heart and a hypocondriac when it comes to our kid. I consider myself the voice of reason.

 

[Wagon]

I don't know Jimmy,

I'm coming to terms with the fact that I may have childhood PTSD as well. My father definitely had PTSD, 2 tours in Vietnam and my mother came from a broken family. Orphaned at age 8. I was a very happy person when I ran away at 17. Life at home was hellish and I was an only child. The dog was treated better than I was. He got less beatings anyway.

But I also really don't think things were bad until after the military. I don't recall having any symptoms prior. But it probably did make me more susceptible. I also did not have much time between the home and military.

I have two girls. I have not lost my temper or hit them.....yet. Actually my wife is the one who loses it. With respects to my girls I just remember my childhood and how much I don't want theirs to be in the least bit like mine. I have an endless well of patience for them. I have little patience for allot of other things. I'm very happy to have girls (OK I am bracing for the teen years) I have no idea what I would do with a boy child. My wife's best friend has 2 boys roughly the same age as our girls. Damn they piss me off. Other peoples kids are something that I just don't have patience for.

I think what I struggle with most is, "What is normal?" Or was I ever "normal".

 

[willis williams]

I have a question from the post in the intro section. What is as perfect father? Is there some social norm we need to follow? As far as I knew there really is no set way each father is different and each child is different.

 

[Sarg]

Born in the military. Dad joined the Army Air Corps in 46', I was born in 47', when it changed to the U.S. Air Force. Dad was a "can do" sargent and rose very rapidly to be one of the youngest Master Sargents in the A.F. Raised on military bases and thaught military respect and manners. He used a belt on us, but it was called corporal punishment. Belts were nothing compared to the paddles the principals used at school, a wooden paddle with one inch holes drilled in them. Stung like one were stung on the butt by hornets. It was just that way back then.

I had this very discussion with a councelor not long ago. Did growing up in the military and how strict my father was give me PTSD? My answer is a resounding NO! Yes, we were around war all the time, that's what most of the conversations were about. Alerts in the middle of the night and lying there and listening to the big "52's" taking off and wondering if this was the big one?

Could it have predisposed me to it? I don't know. But even if it did, the lessons I learned growing up that way and living my life are more than worth it. I had a successful hitch in the war. I busted my ass. And I looked death square in the eye every night. It "bent" my mind. It's not the military's fault. Not my fault. You can only stare at pure insanity for so long before it begins to affect you.

So, my counselor and I will continue to agree to disagree.

Sarg

 

[Jimmy1]

There is no book on parenting. There is no perfect parent. I think I just have a very high expectation of him. Its not his fault. Maybe I could be the opposite and not give a shit.
How many parents out there don't know where their kids are at night. I will never be one of those.

 

[willis williams]

I agree Jimmy, I don't know a better way than to be involved even if it is stiff or like Sarg said corpral punishment at least we are doing. I had to learn how to fight young first one in kinder garden. I was raised a military bratt. Every new school I attended was a fight every three years or so the bullies had to sort out the new kid . I grew up mostly in Texas and I was paddled a lot for fighting. My father used the belt when needed but I had it coming or I got away with something and it caught up with me later for a differant reason. I wouldn't change my childhood it kept me alive in combat I learned to hunt fish and survive at an early age and this is some of what kept me tuff when the chips were down. So growing up with a veteran father I am thankfull PTSD or not. TEX

 

[Sarg]

Hee hee, I couldn't get away with anything! My old man had some sort of informational network where he knew everything I did. I'd get home after hangin with the guys, maybe doing something I shouldn't have and there he sat, with that look and I knew my butt was going to be tanned. Hey, to this day, I tell people, "Naw, I'll get caught". I always get caught. I swear there's this little microchip planted on me somewhere that goes off even if I go one mile an hour over the speed limit.

Hey, keeps me honest (almost)

Sarg