PTSD, Trauma, & Themes - Betrayal

[Friday]

Or do i just have low standards for the people in my life?

I'm with @Sideways on that. I have a hard time believing anyone "owes" me anything unless we're talking about a business transaction.

It’s a pretty high standard for betrayal, I suppose? I don’t put a lot of people into position to be able to betray me.

But?

• If I make a vow? I take it seriously.
• If I swear an oath? I take it seriously.
• If I make a contract? I fulfill it, or exit …carefully.
• I don’t sell people out, in my care, to their enemies.
• I don’t sell people out, generally, as a rule… although there is some ..up to a wide swath… of wiggle room there for discernment.
• Even if I haven’t sworn to protect the lives in my purview, I generally act as if I have, within limits. Essentially? The responsibility without the rights & privileges.

I expect the same in return… from people I actually care about.

Until/Unless they prove they cannot be trusted. I may still care about them, but I will never put them in a position to betray me, again, and usually back up a full circle to limit their being put in that position by someone else.

I expect companies to go back on their word, and have learned to always buy my own K&R insurance (and life insurance, by association, although I’ve clearly never needed that and found that my company has changed their policy to save a buck), always have some things set aside so I can make my own way home. The more a company swears up & down they do right by their people? The less I trust them to actually do that.

I expect most people’s promises to actually translate to “if I happen to feel like it, at the time, maybe”, and most people’s word/honour/integrity to mean even less.

 

[Friday]

Oof! “Owes” packs a bit of a punch! Or do i just have low standards for the people in my life?

When you were working in law… did you ever take confidential client files and give or sell them to the opposing firm, or press, or competing firm? Or did you owe both your firm, & the client, your allegiance? (I would assume contractually, if not ethically.)

 

[Freddyt]

The more a company swears up & down they do right by their people? The less I trust them to actually do that.

Yup - if they put or refer to honest in their name or slogan - run........

Because honest people never need to advertise they are honest.

 

[Sideways]

Or did you owe both your firm, & the client, your allegiance?

Yeah. Bug my standards for myself have always been fairly lofty. For me, it feels wrong to refuse a request, never mind obligations set by contracts and laws.

People around me, though, I have a hard time with the concept that anyone owes me anything. Which sounds a little nihilistic. It isn’t, it’s just trauma brain.

Interesting…

 

[chihayafuru]

Definition of Betrayal Trauma Theory

dynamic.uoregon.edu

someone on another forum mentioned betrayal trauma and i didn't know what it was so i looked it up and found this definition for it. i thought it felt fitting for this thread.

 

[Sideways]

Mod Note:
@chihayafuru - please say something about any link that you include in a post.

 

[Freddyt]

someone on another forum mentioned betrayal trauma and i didn't know what it was so i looked it up and found this definition for it. i thought it felt fitting for this thread.

Yup.....it makes definitions of that kind of trauma.

Like abuse, many forms of betrayl are things that sadly are not shown for what they truly are in our society.

 

[Freida]

From Betrayal trauma

Betrayal trauma occurs when the people or institutions on which a person depends for survival significantly violate that person’ s trust or well-being:
Ya, this reached right out and smacked me in the head.

as far as the owes thing I've gotta side with @Friday When you depend on them for safety/survival/etc, then they do owe you - they owe you that you can believe they will do what they say, and not do harm. When that is violated? then the betrayal comes from the unexpected - they owed you their word and violated it.

 

[Freddyt]

Betrayal trauma occurs when the people or institutions on which a person depends for survival significantly violate that person’ s trust or well-being:
Ya, this reached right out and smacked me in the head.

Pretty much defines all my traumas that I know of at this point.

 

[chihayafuru]

@Freddyt @Freida I'm glad the link I found seems to have been of some use to you
I don't remember ever feeling betrayed but I'm wondering if I did feel like that but just didn't use that word and also my memory of what happened isn't clear, so I don't really know how I felt at the time.

 

[scout86]

When I read all of that, it seems like the biggest problem is "having to depend on someone" else for survival. And the lesson is "Don' DO that!" It honestly seems like expecting someone to be dependable is a big ask & is usually probably too much. I HAVE met a few people who expressed that they wanted to be dependable and then went on to actually BE dependable. (That always surprises me.) But to expect random people you encounter to be that? Seems unreasonable. And I count parents as "random people" because they didn't know who or what they were getting as a kid before that kid arrived. Could be it's not a person they actually wanted. Seems like that's not their fault since it was a chance thing.

 

[Rose White]

But to expect random people you encounter to be that? Seems unreasonable. And I count parents as "random people" because they didn't know who or what they were getting as a kid before that kid arrived.

Two responses: one, *expect* is a big load to put on people, and removes a level of responsibility on your part. The discernment process is subtle and it takes time to know if someone is dependable. You start off with tiny tests, and then work up from there, as part of the social interactions. You test them for dependability, they test you, and if it’s a good fit then you get to the point where you can call them in the middle of the night type thing. There are many levels and variables to this, and it is very nuanced, but seeing it as black and white or that there are fixed rules will run you into trouble.

Two: for you, me, and other people on here, parents may be like random people you can’t depend on, but in the typical/ideal child development scheme parents are *very* different from random people—they are the *only* people that you *can expect* to be dependable—which is why when that relationship is ruptured it can feel like losing yourself.

It’s normal for parents to feel stressed and overwhelmed and confused and disoriented about the little human living in their house but in a typical/ideal child development scheme the parent/caregiver has internal resources/capacities and external supports as well as a biological drive to provide stable encouragement and feedback to the growing, naive, vulnerable kid.