Publicly confronted about service dog. a disability isn't fake just because it's invisible. (vent)

[desiderata310]

Believe me. We can tell.

Even SD who are having a bad moment are different from just ... dogs. And the way the handler interacts, responds etc. I think most handlers are rather conscientious because we don't want to give the rest of the community a bad name, ESPECIALLY IF we have an invisible disability.
I am hyper aware of where my dog's nose is at any given time, his response to other people, his grooming (some days he will get bathed and I will not because I HAVE to go out and I can't risk a smelly dog). All this because I DON'T want to draw attention.

The only thing we are allowed to ask is what service does your dog perform. We can't ask for certificates, training etc. We do not have to let in emotional support animals. PTSD dogs don't count.

ESA's are NOT trained specifically. They do NOT have public access. They do have access for housing (so that's an FHA thing) My son's ex-girlfriend has an ESA which is a cat. My SD is trained to perform tasks such as blocking, and DPT.

A SD is to mitigate a disability (disability is defined by the ADA as a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, a person who has a history or record of such an impairment, or a person who is perceived by others as having such an impairment.)
PTSD when severe enough substantially limits one or more major life activites
Therein lies the difference.

It looks like we were a bit far afield from the original post but it's related.

 

[Gs172003]

Even SD who are having a bad moment are different from just ... dogs. And the way the handler int...

I know. PTSD animals are not counted as emotional support animals. That's what I was saying.

 

[desiderata310]

:) I was trying to support what you said!

 

[lostforgottensoul]

PTSD animals

Are service dogs. As are many other mental disabilties. The better way to look at it (as opposed to "PTSD animal") is if the dog performs a service (task) for the handler, of any kind, that the handler cannot perform alone, that is a service dog as it is performing a service.

Emotional support animals (ESA) do nothing. They are there for just emotional support. Comfort. But are not trained to perform tasks.

Service dogs perform tasks for the handler.

I'm not arguing, I am agreeing but advising of a much better and easier way to think of it and frame it is all.

 

[Justmehere]

I will write more later, as I'm running out the door now - but I just wanted to say I love reading this thread, it's so validating for a number of the challenges I have dealt with!

 

[Kefira]

It also is maybe helpful to understand that different classifications of service dogs don't actually hold any legal bearing.* Because all that any of the names do is give handlers and programs ways to talk about what sort of task work that dog might do. A "Mobility SD" is going to be different from a "Psychiatric SD" for instance, but there's so much overlap that even then there can be a lot of the same tasks and there's a high degree of co-morbidity with people who are disabled and who can be helped by SDs.

I am agreeing but advising of a much better and easier way to think of it and frame it is all.

Exactly. Service dogs are service dogs. Period. The type of work doesn't matter. Hell, my main diagnosis is PTSD but my dog's primary "certification" (which is only used to sort him in his organization's training database) is medical alert and he uses a lot of autism response tasks because a number of my symptoms are sensory based.

People already get confused enough not knowing there are differences between SDs ESAs and Therapy Dogs. It doesn't help anyone to over-complicate it, especially when the labels don't actually MEAN anything.* Service dogs don't have a magic set of tasks they're trained to perform because they're an "Autism SD" vs "Medical Alert". It can indicate what their main one or two jobs might be, but the work is always tailored to the individual. Even for dogs in more structured programs like Seeing Eye Dogs (which all come from one program that reserves that particular name instead of the more generic "guide dog") the dog's work may vary greatly depending on the handler and their needs and lifestyle.

* Except under the Air Carrier Access Act, where Psychiatric SDs have been singled out and are classified with ESAs instead of with SDs, but it's legally iffy since like I said above there's not actual standards that mean anything if it went to court, even though the language has made its way into the law.
I might be a nerd- this is how I spend my evenings.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Hell, my main diagnosis is PTSD but my dog's primary "certification" (which is only used to sort him in his organization's training database) is medical alert and he uses a lot of autism response tasks because a number of my symptoms are sensory based.

My Dr's letter says PTSD but I am training him to pull me up from a sitting position, allow me to push down on him to help me up, pick up things for me, carry items for me, open & closed doors, push buttons like elevator buttons, handicap door buttons, cross walk buttons, and couter balance on stairs due to chronic pain. Those are just a few. He also alerts to anxiety, blocks people, provides deep pressure therapy, etc so he does PTSD tasks too but a PTSD service dog (or any service dog) can be trained for many things.

 

[Kefira]

PTSD service dog (or any service dog) can be trained for many things.

Yeah, he started out with several mobility things that his organization trains before they're placed and we've kept those up for the occasions where I need it. Our most common work is a combination of what people think of as tasks for PTSD and for autism. But my other disorders have made it so that we're doing a lot more pick things up and carry items because since I got him my pain in my hands and muscle weakness has gotten so much worse.

It's really excellent when you aren't limiting yourself and the dog is open to adapting and learning something new or dropping an old task. Although I got hue lights about 6 months ago, and sometimes he still turns off the light at night from the switch making it so I can't use the technology I replaced his work with. Almost like he's pissed off with me, but he likes to be able to stay in bed after a nightmare instead of getting up to turn on the light so I don't know why he's complaining. :)

Let's face it though: It's not as though most people's situation won't change a lot several times in the course of 8-10 years.

 

[EmmaOwl]

a lot of people do try to fake it, and make life hard for those of us that have real legit disabilities. Every now and then, someone comes up to ask me how they can get a vest for their dog so take it everywhere too.

This is very very minor compared to what you deal with, but I do send some empathy your way. Recently I was in a situation where everyone was expected to use antibacterial hand gel; I walked by and said, "I need to stay with the soap, I'm allergic to the ingredients in this" - it was NOT a big deal, but some idiot guy near me said "Hey I should have thought to say that!"
As though I wanted to make a fuss over hand gel. :O_o:

That is nowhere near the level of what you go through day in and day out with a service dog, but it gives me a small taste of it - and it was rotten enough. It sucks that you have to go through all that, and "prove" disability.

What I wonder is, if people MUST comment, why they can't ask in a nice way.

Ultimately: People are stupid...

 

[Lola Nocheprieta]

Wow, I'm so sorry to hear about all these horror stories. Your original post brought tears to my eyes, too. FFS, people! How crass and unconscious do you have to be to ask someone why they have a service dog? If I was there I would have stood up for you, @Justmehere. I probably would have gotten right up in that woman's face, *especially* since she was being loud. The same thing happens for people with nonapparent disabilities who have parking placards. When they park in the accessible parking spot people give them nasty looks and even say things like, "That's for people with real disabilities!" Like they have no clue about disabilities that are not visible. Which, of course, they obviously don't.

I work in disability rights and higher education, helping adult students with all types of disabilities, PLUS I am a lawyer. I would have also spoken with the manager of the grocery store as well, and educated him/her about the TWO AND ONLY TWO questions the STORE representative is allowed to ask: "Is this a service dog required due to disability?" And, "What work or tasks has this dog been specially trained to do?" And those questions are NOT allowable if it is readily apparent that the dog is a service animal (like a guide dog.)The second allowable question bothers me because it can easily "out" someone as having a psychiatric disability. Some places don't ask the second question. The public accommodation is NOT allowed to ask you to demonstrate the task(s), or ask for any kind of "proof" of training or certification (we all know how easy it is to buy that.) And, if a dog is causing a disruption and not sufficiently under the handler's control, the place of public accommodation can ask that the dog leave the premises until such time as the handler can get the dog back under control.

The Americans with Disabilities Act was amended in 2008 to EXPAND the rights of people with disabilities, and make it easier for us to be protected by the ADA. I gladly accept that there are people who are going to "work the system," if it means that businesses are no longer allowed to put up numerous barriers for people with disabilities who rely on service dogs. UGH! This topic is ripe for the thread, "Insert swearish rant here."

 

[Lola Nocheprieta]

on the advice of my therapist: "I have a neurological disorder"

That's a great one! Has anyone experienced being asked (validly, politely) those two questions? How have you answered the 2nd question. Sorry, OP, if I'm hijacking your thread.

 

[Kefira]

That's a great one! Has anyone experienced being asked (validly, politely) those two questions? How have you answered the 2nd question.

I don't think I've actually had any "gatekeepers" know what questions they can ask well enough to ask both questions. That's a really sad commentary on service dog education right there.

The program my dog was trained through does annual re-certs because they're ADI accredited though, and one of the things that they do is a mock gate keeper scenario where one of the training staff will stop us and ask. They want three tasks, and air on the more specific side/things from their training "menu" for ease of filing, so there it's "medical alert, 'pay attention', interruption of repetitive behaviors".

When people ask how he helps if I want to keep it broad I say he provides medical alert and environmental assessment, so it's categories and it's pretty vague. If it's someone I care to talk to or who asks a polite intelligent question beyond that I might give more info. If I was asked about task work by a gatekeeper I'd probably just stick to medical alert unless they asked further, since his main really essential everyday tasks are various alerts. I never give anything the outs my disorder overtly though. That's personal preference.