Shock Therapy Ect - I'm Shocked It Is Still Used, What Are Your Feelings?

[Gloria]

I was hospitalized after my sister's suicide and was in a ward where many people were getting ECT for chronic depression and it was extremely effective. So much so that I wanted to have it done but there is memory problems associated with it and since I already have memory problems from traumatic brain injury so I am not a candidate for ECT.

To support my fellow patients I actually watched the videos and read the material about ECT. It used to be horrible because the patient was awake but now the doctors put the patient under anesthesia when given the shock treatment. The people who had the depression were very happy to get the treatment because they were sick and tired of being sick and tired. After the therapy they saw tremendous improvement. I now attend NAMI meetings twice monthly and they speak very highly of the therapy. Hope this is helpful.

 

[intothelight]

If I have Parkinson, Epilepsy or ALS and deep brain stimulation or the implantation of a brain pacemaker makes my life better, then there is a place for this method of treatment. The problem with ECT is that doctors don't understand why it works or doesn't work, and they don't even understand the physiology of depression.

Maybe someday mental illness will be looked at just like any other illness and serious research will take place. We need to look at it as illness and stop making it separate as the last time I checked my brain was very much a part of my body.

 

[Weemie]

doctors straight up lie about the effects of ect, on the off chance that it might cause a brain glitch that will "fix" what is wrong.

i was a medical proxy for someone whose dr wanted them to get ect, and i was completely lied to about the effects by every dr i spoke to. i signed the form and this person has lost memories from years past (it's all a big haze with only general knowledge things preserved like who her kids are), and even has minor trouble forming new memories.

she had ect four times a week, that's being put under anaesthesia four times a week. you have seizures, your heart can even stop during the procedure.

ect does not solve a necessary problem, it is completely outdated and drs literally only use it because they don't know what else to do. and people use this argument like, "well if it does cause a brain glitch that will help them, possibly, stop suffering..." like let's just bash their heads off the wall on the off chance that tbi will vegetate them enough not to think about it. oh, right, that's not an actual medical treatment anywhere on earth.

f*ck, why don't we just go for trepanation while we're at it? maybe satan is the problem.

 

[joeylittle]

she had ect four times a week, that's being put under anaesthesia four times a week. you have seizures, your heart can even stop during the procedure.

Yes, these are the risks. ECT induces a seizure - that's what the procedure is. Anesthesia is dangerous. Yes, your heart can stop.

i was a medical proxy for someone whose dr wanted them to get ect, and i was completely lied to about the effects by every dr i spoke to.

I'm really sorry this happened to you. I'm not sure what you mean by being completely lied to about the effects, though.

Like I said earlier, it's really shitty that there is not more actual data on the long-term memory loss, when it seems that everybody reports having it. Without it being actual research, all a doctor can tell you is hearsay. But, they can't do that. It really leaves the whole thing in the hands of the care-seeker, to do their own research, which is also a shame.

I agree that it should be outdated - but actually, for what is available currently to patients in a certain kind of state - it's not outdated. It's all there is. Hopefully the newer therapies will get some traction in testing and there will be more than just the one option.

 

[Weemie]

I'm not sure what you mean by being completely lied to about the effects, though.

i was told that there were "side effects" in the same way that there are dangerous side effects for anaesthesia. a rare, totally freak thing that shouldn't happen in a healthy patient. that was a lie. most patients report noticeable, critical memory loss. i was told it was safe and totally researched and tested. they even tried to tell me that it directly targets the limbic system, causing less "emotional distress." i was not told that their heart would stop during the surgery. these are all outright lies. i was 18.

i love medicine. i want to work in medicine. i know there are some genuinely decent doctors. i know that some doctors don't agree with ect. but there is an inherent bias against the mentally ill in all forms of medicine, especially those designed to interface with mentally ill patients. ect is the ultimate culmination of this. it's a big f*ck you to mental illness. we don't know what's wrong and we don't know that this'll fix it, but let's just try shocking your brain! because that's f*ckin' scientific. after a tbi some guy got the ability to see math everywhere in the universe. let's all bash our heads off the wall!

 

[joeylittle]

most patients report noticeable, critical memory loss.

Yeah, this is the biggie. And for some people, it's worth it to manage this - they've got good support systems, their livelihood doesn't depend on their memory, and their mental health puts them in an uncontrollable state when it's not being managed...if ECT does it, then that is all OK. But there's just a lack of actual data supporting what seems to be the universal truth: you're going to lose some memory, some of it you won't get back, and the memory loss will be an ongoing issue, potentially for your whole life.

Side-note, there are some current studies on anesthetic and what it actually does, how the action really affects the brain, and it's a little bit terrifying. But at least with anesthetic we've progressed from 10 years ago where it was "perfectly harmless and safe" to now, where it's "you need to sign off on this, here is the list of risks, you do have x% chance of death or irreparable damage, etc."...at least, that was my recent experience in being put under from around 2004 to now.

But honestly, there are plenty of doctors looking into safe and effective ways to work with brain stimulation, and there has been real progress in that area. I'm in the US, but I do know that much of this research is paralleled in Canada. I think it's a different landscape now than it was when you dealt with this, and it will be a much different landscape in another decade or two. (Says the hopeful person who is not treatable with medication, and would like someone to find an alternative to ECT before she goes into a very bad depressive episode again).

 

[Queen Boudica]

From what I understand there is no understanding of what happens with ECT. It is like Russian roulette as to what kind of memory damage, brain damage is done. It is not like you can reverse that. At least with the drugs you can stop if you see it is causing you major problems. Yes ECT works by probably destroying connections in the brain that are linked with depressive thoughts, maybe, but it also destroys a whole lot more. And brain plasticity, those connections regrow and it is not a one off treatment, so you are back again, damaging your brain again.

And no-one understands how it works it is all theory. And it is unethical if people are told that the affects are minor, because this is untrue. Much more research would have to be done now-a-days to approve a procedure like this, but it is already on the books so it is OK.

 

[MANIC_JEN]

I could use some positivity, I will be doing my first ECT PROCEDURE tomorrow and would like feedback or if anyone would like to share their stories with me.I've read most of your comments. the deep pain and struggles that we feel within that no one can understand but those who have actually experienced it. I am tired of feeling this way.... I want a chance to feel better...for those of you that have experience with ECT, I would love to hear your feedback or your stories to know what to expect

 

[StellaBlue]

I could use some positivity, I will be doing my first ECT PROCEDURE tomorrow and would like feedback or if anyone would like to share their stories with me.

As I said in an earlier post, I have not had ECT - but I want you to know that there is someone out here (me! :)) who has read your concerns and supports your decision to do whatever you need to do. Good luck tomorrow.

 

[Flossy]

I was an Administrator in a Mental Health Unit and met a lot of people who had ECT.

I will not hesitate to have ECT after the benefits I observed in them. It would usually take 4 or 5 ECT treatments to click in, but it was as though a switch had been turned on, when the patient had earlier been in a bad state.

Then a few more treatments would occur after the positive response.

I will happily trade some memory loss for relief from depression. It takes weeks or months of agony after an event to get myself 'back". I cannot imagine myself suffering that as I get older.

I fully intend to ask for ECT. I have lost a lot of memory already through PTSD. I thought everyone had. I don't actually care about it. I tell myself it gives me more brain space to fill up.

It's quite easy to just say "I don't remember". I don't let myself feel shame over it. Bugger that. I try most days to lose any sense of shame over anything.

 

[Anarchy]

A close friend (he died a few years back) did a spell as an auxilliary in a psychie hospital in the mid 70s when he was sucking up to get back into medical school after failing a year. He was ultra bright (ended up with a phd in physics and working as tech director of a high tech company by his late 20s) so they soon had him doing jobs like assessments of new patients!

He said that ECT was used as means of coercion / punishment in that hospital, and at that time

One female patient whom he had got to know, (I'm paraphrasing his account from here) repeatedly refused to kow-tow to her betters, and was repeatedly sent for ECT to teach her her place in the world.

One time she did't come back, the bastards had finally managed to murder her.

That was only one of several experiences in that hospital (If my friend was still alive I'd be urging him to make a full report) which convinced my friend to forget medicine as a career.

 

[joeylittle]

I will happily trade some memory loss for relief from depression.

For people who are without any support system, this is potentially deeply frustrating at the best and dangerous at the worst. As long as you have someone or someones in your life who can remind you of things - how to get to work, or home, what your phone number is, where you were last employed, things like that - I think it's OK to accept the memory loss.

I think about getting it done all the time, I really do...but then I wonder who would help me, and could I actually keep working, since big parts of my job depend on my recall. I wish they had better control over it.