So What Does A Bit Of Trauma Matter?

[Eleanor]

I haven't managed that at all. I'm still applying the blame wholly to myself. I keep thinking that I got being a child wrong, that I should have been better at it and then I would have been parented better.

Other have said much more, much better than I could. I just wanted to emphasize this:

It is impossible to "get being a child wrong." Children are what they are. It is totally the adults' responsibility (response ability) to "get" the child and respond to them and nurture them effectively. That this changes (very gradually) over time from about age 6 on is what makes being a parent such a tricky balancing act. You could not have been a better child than you were. You were perfect. They failed epic-ly.

I suspect you accept this for every other human being on the planet. It applies to you too. Really.

Babies experience neglect as life threatening. Because it is. Thus neglect = violence to babies.

As to the responsibility question:

Your approach seems overly simplistic - victim wholly good, assaulter wholly bad.

This is ALWAYS true when the victim is a small child and the assaulter an adult. It seems simplistic, but it really is that simple.

As to the resistance issue: "could have" is a trickier issue than you have allowed for for the teenager. It is perfectly possible for a teenager to have learned that "resistance will be punished" and so to have eliminated it as a live option from her repertoire. That is a mental/emotional handicap. Predators can see this. That's an important factor to them when picking a victim.

In any case, it doesn't make the assault in any way the fault of the victim. If I leave my keys in the ignition of my car, I may be absent minded and foolish, but I am in NO WAY responsible for the fact that some thief steals it. If I don't call the cops and report the car, it is still stolen and the person who took it is still a thief.

To your ANP/adult self: Please see that tantrum-y little baby for what she is/was - panicking and frightened to death and desperately in need of reassurance, compassion and protection. It is .... distressingly difficult to do this. But the rewards are many and it is the right thing to do in any event. You would do it for EVERY OTHER child (I am sure, because we all know you as a compassionate person) please do it for the child you. You can do it.

 

[KwanYingirl]

BF Skinners daughter has had all sorts of rumors circulated about her having been an experiment of her father, a Harvard psychologist that designed an alternative to a playpen to hopefully increase the chances she'd develop a healthy psyche and body. In a nutshell, he posited that although we are genetically predetermined in many ways, it is environment that shapes personality.She still has to remind naysayers that she was much loved and was never sick until she went to school, and contrary to rumors to the opposite, she did not become psychotic and kill herself in a bowling alley in Billings, Montana.
It's just common sense: incubate the brain in negativity and neglect and out pops a child with low self esteem. It is that esteem that follows us in life. It's like having a wagon full of chips. The more positive experiences a child has, the more confidence they develop from a loving family, the more chips they have to trade in for risks. Like raising their hand in class, reaching for high goals, comfortable in social situations. In contrast to the child with maybe one or two chips. She can't risk losing the meager lot she has. She sizes herself up beside her well endowed peers and turns and runs into a corner, aware of her limitations. In NO WAY was she to blame for her position. An empty vessel is easily discarded, vulnerable to predators who can sniff out the child with no voice. They don't call it "talk therapy" for nothing. We need lots of practice in that sense to get us up to speed with the fully formed adults out there. We deserve it.

 

[Sandstone]

I give in. You are all more interested in winning an argument than in listening to what I say. Even when you quote my words back ti me you aren't hearing them

The six and a half just seem so trivial and unimportant against the formulation. I think those beliefs would have been there without any of the official Traumas, and they are the things that cripple me

There is processing treatment for the six and a half, but what do I do with the rest?

the issues listed in the "formulation" are much bigger than, and are the CAUSE of the abuse. It was the holding of those beliefs that allowed the abuses to happen - without them I would have been able to speak. With them, I was a passive and compliant victim. It's those beliefs that need to change

the point is that all of this seems to me much more harmful, causes me much more distress, and impacts more on my day to day life than some very non-violent "Traumas".

The problem is, how can I unlearn them, when they seem so very true? I'm just not sure they fit into a model of PTSD, except as contributors to why the abuses all happened.

Unquestionably, in two of my assaults I could have acted to end them, but I didn't, and addressing the reasons why is central to remaining safe and to healing now.

 

[The Albatross]

Have it your way but it's not an argument, about winning, or not listening. It is easier to shift responsibility to the listener than either hear the alternative viewpoints or pause to consider the opinion that you are trying to communicate. Listening does not automatically imply agreement, but of course you know that. Not agreeing does not mean it is an argument either and I don't think that anyone who posted to you is interested in "winning." Best wishes Stenni.

I know personally, there came a point where I could remain hung up on how and why things before my youth happened, and remain stuck... OR... I could accept the possibility that they were either unknowable or the impressions and subsequent viewpoints that were giving me the most problem in my adult life were biased by my child's/early developmental understanding. I chose the latter and became able to make progress.

 

[scout86]

Quote #1: I think everyone agrees with this.

Quote #2: Core beliefs can be changed, At least I've been told that and I hope it's true. It's another process that therapy can help with, but the first step is probably to accept that they CAN be changed and that changing them would be good.

Quote #3: I think most of us would agree that what you call the "formulation" is more serious than the abuse at this point in your life. For myself, I don't see how your core beliefs could accurately be said to have CAUSED the abuse. The abuse happened because you were around people who chose to abuse you. Even people who are supremely confident and well supported get raped sometimes. It would be nice to think that we are 100% capable of keeping ourselves safe, if we only "get it right". Unfortunately, that's not true. In your case, perhaps you would have been less vulnerable if you had been given a different set of core beliefs as an infant and a child.That may or may not have made a difference. You also would have been less vulnerable if you'd never been in the presence of people who engage in predatory behavior. An antelope without a tiger is just an antelope. It doesn't become "prey" until a hungry tiger shows up. The adults in your life were responsible for giving you your core values, when you were a child. I highly doubt they did that job in a wonderful way and you deliberately refused to accept a sense of self worth. Also, consider that these same adults who taught you these beliefs were also responsible for you safety. More than likely NO ONE would have been able to get their attention to get themselves rescued because they just weren't that interested in see a child as someone they needed to protect.

Quote #4: I think we all agree with you on this.

Quote #5: Unlearning them is hard. I think/hope it's possible, at least partly because I'm working on the same thing. It's like unlearning and relearning anything. First you see the need, then you get to work. You need help from the outside. Your T, your friends. Possibly your family, but, since they are usually part of the problem you may just have to learn to accept that they are part of the problem. Things like CBT can help.
Remember, they only SEEM to be true. A lot of what has been said so far was us, trying to explain to you, why this DOES lead to PTSD for some people. PTSD comes from more things than combat, car crashes, and rape.

Quote #6: I guess I'd need proof before I would accept the accuracy of "unquestionably". Could be that's accurate. Could be you're looking for ways to blame yourself. In either case, it's true that it's a good thing to do what we can to keep ourselves and others safe. But the truth is, the world is a dangerous place and none of us are getting out of here alive.

Keep kicking this around @stenni . I really think you have it in you to work through those formulations and come up with a better way to think about yourself.

 

[Sandstone]

( posted this before Scout86 responded) Progress is what I asked for help to achieve. I identified the problem, and asked for help with resolving it.

There is processing treatment for the six and a half, but what do I do with the rest?

how can I unlearn them, when they seem so very true?

I do think it matters to define it right, in order to get the treatment right

Most responses were taken up with telling me I was wrong to identify the problem as being the formulation. I know I'm not wrong.
There have been other threads raising the same thing. like https://www.myptsd.com/threads/why-arent-the-criterion-a-traumas-the-focus-of-my-thoughts.53279/
https://www.myptsd.com/threads/i-wonder-what-made-me-this-way.51585/

which contain similar comments

PTSD[/URL]. I've had pretty much the same symptoms as long as I can remember.

It feels so wierd, that her behaviour feels like the worst that happened to me, but is in fact not responsible for the PTSD. The experiences that qualify as criterion A can feel insignificant compared to my hate for my grandmother.

I have a few of them. Criterion A stressors, that is. ….
My point is, I don't think these are the things that caused my PTSD. I've had pretty much the same symptoms as long as I can remember. Some symptoms have gotten better while others have gotten worse. But while there was a lot of neglect and emotional abandonment in my childhood and adolescence, there was never a situation I remember where my life felt threatened.

I posted this in Complex in the hope of getting responses from people who recognise that there is more than just the obvious Criterion A stuff going on, but I feel like I'm being hammered into a round " process the trauma and everything will be all right " hole. The " trauma" I experienced is too little, too non-violent and too late to account for what I live with, what I am.

 

[The Albatross]

When I was evaluated by a nationally acclaimed psycho therapist... she posited that my earliest child experiences and impressions formed the problematic issues in my youth/teen/adult personality. I believed her. I fall under the "complex" former category by the way.

 

[KwanYingirl]

What I gleaned from the thread is that, absolutely, this is complex:that early development is entangled within the construct of those beliefs and as a result, coping mechanisms that don't necessarily protect us from predatory behavior. I think it can't be as simple as just believing you were responsible for your lot in life. Yes, now you are reimagining it as we all are, which is why we seek help from folks here. That conversations lead to enlightenment. I believe you and I wish you well.

 

[Sandstone]

But you don't believe me when i say the same thing about myself?

 

[The Albatross]

"I feel like I'm being hammered into a round " process the trauma and everything will be all right " hole. The " trauma" I experienced is too little, too non-violent and too late to account for what I live with, what I am." I think that sexual abuse from 3 to 11 is not "trauma that is too little" either though.

I'm sorry but you are seriously over thinking this. I think that wanting to understand is one thing, but you are fully invested for whatever personal reason in resisting a label (PTSD) and have spent much time about what your diagnosis could or should be. I just don't understand splitting hairs when there is progresses and improvements that can be made provided you are open minded enough to receive them.

 

[Sandstone]

But I can't lie, I don't think it fits well enough to explain it all. I have worked very hard at the things my T has told me to do, but I can find nothing to apply them to. I don't have the flashbacks that I need to ground from, so those skills are not relevant. I don't have re-experiencing

Then lots of things I've read here have convinced me that trauma actually has to contain violence or fear of death, and none of mine do. Absolutely no violence, threat, co-ercion, none of it. Yet every time someone wants to rebut one of the people claiming PTSD from marriage break up or whatever, they emphasise the need for that aspect. Yesterday, my T said she would be distressed by any one of my 6 and half, but I can only think she must have had a really nice life if they seem worse to her than the other stuff. Why can't the seat of my pain be where the pain is? And why should I not apply myself to healing that felt pain. If I could only find out what to do to heal it

 

[Sandstone]

I think/hope it's possible, at least partly because I'm working on the same thing. It's like unlearning and relearning anything. First you see the need, then you get to work. You need help from the outside. Your T, your friends. Possibly your family,

What, practically, do I do? How do I do it? I've spent the last two sessions with my T talking about this, and she seems as stuck as me. It seems as though we never go beyond taking a more and more detailed history to actually doing something to change it. If I'm thinking wrong, then i need to be shown how to think right. Instead I just ending up hating myself ever more for being wrong