Standing up for myself or abusive?

[PreciousChild]

Hi all. I'm really hoping to get some honest feedback about where I am in the process of breaking up with my ex bf. We're both sufferers. I've posted a lot about basically the same theme lately - when the partner is also a sufferer, what does "equal" or "fair" treatment look like? If the ex bf gets triggered, do I automatically give him ample understanding, meanwhile putting my needs for being heard aside, etc.? To fill you in, we broke up mid-June, but we're still tangling with each other because his new apartment isn't ready for another week/2 weeks. I have a 15 year old in the apartment. So obviously it hasn't been ideal, but to be honest, we've kept the peace for the most part. But I feel that that's because I have overlooked a lot. He was diagnosed by a psychologist with ptsd, but has never gotten therapy for it, and will explode at any suggestion that he even read or think about resolving those issues.

He's very sweet to people and frequently brags about positive interactions with strangers and dogs, almost to suggest how much a nice guy he is and therefore he couldn't be at fault for any problems between us. The mask has come off with me, and he projects negativity on me. I think he fits Heller's "Connection" profile, so he is full of rage, but it's split off, so that he distances himself from any anger at all consciously. Instead, it goes underground and comes out in passive-aggressive, maybe frequent but "soft". I think he spends all day criticizing me, and only some of it shows through. He does often make under his breath snarky remarks. But he also chaotically goes back and forth between between very generous and sweet to make up for any anger he might feel somehow might be slipping through (unconcsiously). Meanwhile, I realize that I've been feeling like I did when I was a kid, tiptoeing around my dad, so that I avoid causing him to explode.

But in the last few days, I've had enough of him. I've shared with him two complaints I've had on two separate occasions instead of keeping it to myself. Both of those times, he exploded, made accusations, unleashed an F bomb storm. One just happened and he left. After the other one, you could tell he was extremely sorry as "Connection" types will be because they are convinced that they don't have anger, so they're afraid of it. So he became horrified with his anger and felt guilty and apologized. That's also why he probably blames me for all of his explosions. It's not him - I'm the real cause. But you know what, I was just feeling the need to express my truth after these past few months and a year before that in our relationship. I felt that by continuing to cow-tow to him, and holding my tongue, and allowing him to criticize me without putting checks on him was making me shrink - it's his space, not mine; his air. And I felt justified because I didn't want to cause waves. I didn't want to cause conflict because there's nothing to work out with him (I'm truly over him). I'm also "bigger" than him because I've gone to therapy and feel that I have more understanding, so I won't react. I'll just bide my time until he leaves. But right or wrong, I just had a strong need to express my truth in both these incidents, and didn't back down when he started to growl. I suddenly feel emboldened to speak my mind despite it being in the face of his triggers which I understand causes people to become hijacked, etc. I become that way too! But one of the things that Heller talks about in Healing Developmental Trauma is that we need to express our anger in healthy ways to empower ourselves. I spent my entire childhood eating my own healthy anger because I couldn't direct it at my abusive father and it made me so distorted and self-hating. And now I'm keeping my silencde to cater to an untreated ptsd man who is projecting all of his s**t on me. Should it matter that I know it's coming from deep down pain?

 

[PreciousChild]

I just wanted to elaborate on the two incidents. In the first one, I told him that if he ran ahead of my son and I on an errand we had to run, I wouldn't try to keep up. I would let him go and just meet him there. Previously, he had walked well ahead of us in obvious anger and I felt as though he was "punishing us" for being too slow, which is something my dad would do. He exploded at the suggestion that he had anything but good intentions. He said that he felt responsible for getting us to where we needed to go, and was incensed actually that I didn't express my gratitude. Heller talks about this - my ex puts all this pressure on himself and sees it as coming from an external source even when no one is, and then he explodes. Like we don't have a gps? You need to guide us? But I didn't say any of that. I just said that indeed we were grateful, but that he was probably putting pressure on himself needlessly. I also told him that I am capable of being an ass sometimes, and I'll apologize if I am. It shouldn't be a big deal. I was just expressing my experience of what I thought was going on, and I could be wrong, but am glad to clarify. He went on a tirade about how I was insinuating that he was acting like an ass with an F bomb storm.

In the second incident that just happened (he went off somewhere). We had walked out the door at the same time, and while I was closing the door, he pushed against it to soften the blow. In retrospect, that wasn't a big deal, and it would have been something I brushed off even had I had the reaction I did, which might have been irrational. But I felt infantilized. He had previously told me that he thinks I second-guess him, and he yelled at me for it. When he pushed against the door as I was closing it, I didn't take that well. I was being pretty gentle, I thought. He could have asked me to close the door gently. But I didn't take the way he was intercepting the door well. So I asked him didn't he tell me that he didn't like it when I second guessed him, and I tried to tell him that the way he pushed the door made me feel... I didn't quite get the words out before he absolutely exploded, and he got extremely enraged, broke a pencil he was holding in half and told me that if he shared even half the thoughts he had about me during the day, it would not go well for me. Okay.... I know I was wrong, but I'm sick of feeling like I can't have an irrational moment without his catastrophic reactions. Yeah, that was petty to bring up, but was it worthy of his tirade? I don't think so. My dad once left me home alone as a toddler all night to punish me for chewing my food too ungratefully. I have that in my history, and I want to tell myself that it's okay to have an irrational moment once in a while and still have people give me some understanding. I don't have to be perfect to be understood.

I understand that this is a situation that is rife with emotion, and I need to watch what I say. But right now, I feel like it's important for me to be able to stand by myself even if that means saying "f*** his feelings." I want to tell myself that it's okay to get out my feelings even if it wasn't smart or good timing.

 

[Never_falter2]

That may be just me but I am not sure what you mean by “he exploded“. Do you mean to say he yelled, he got very angry or what?

 

[scout86]

First, he's not your dad and it might help if you could focus on dealing with the person you're actually dealing with in the present moment. He may be a jerk in his own right, but you can't even the score with your dad by taking it out someone else.

The whole thing reminds me of wise words from an old boss. "Sometimes you have to ask yourself, 'What do I actually want? The shear joy of a really good fight, or to actually get something done?' Both could be legitimate, but you can't often do both the at the same time, with safe technique."

I'm not saying your feelings are wrong. I'm just saying what's the goal here? It's to survive another week or two under the same roof, right? Agree to stay out of each other's way more than your have and wait it out. You can each deal with your anger issues in a safer, more structured situation, down the road. (Or, not, in his case.)

 

[PreciousChild]

@scout86, I agree. I qualified the post by saying that I did wrong. And we've been doing pretty much what you advise. I should mention that we're traveling together. I know. It was either let an expensive trip out of the country go or take it. We decided not to waste the trip, especially since we've been getting along. So it might have been a stupid decision, but we're here, and the stress of traveling and being in a foreign country is taking its toll. Given that we can't reverse the decision, my post is about the fall-out from the situation. My actions and reactions have not been ideal, but my post is about forgiving myself in the face of a reaction that is far beyond what I deserve. My ex has catastrophic reactions to things that I feel I need to keep perspective about for my own sanity. I felt the need to vocalize my refusal to accept the way he was characterizing me and the situation so that I could help shape the narrative and not continue to let his traumatic reactions do the talking. I would usually just turn the other cheek, but I'm realizing that not causing waves is not equal to living my authentic self. I understand that total honesty has its downsides (my dad was completely honest about how dumb he thought his kids were). But I mean, I don't think my insides and outsides are as aligned as they could be and as Heller suggests.

I appreciate your comment about my dad. I read and go to therapy especially to avoid attributing my reactions to my past to my loved ones in the present, especially my son. Have I eradicated the associations completely? I don't think so. But I do feel that my mentioning my dad was in disclosure of that possible bleeding versus setting up my ex bf to make amends for my father. My ex himself has never been to therapy, so there's that. I think your post focused on me because rightly, I need to take agency for my part. But beyond that, I guess in my self-talk I also need voices that help me understand the situation beyond taking responsibility. I think my ex was in the wrong too, and though I won't tell him that when I see him, I need to give myself the confidence to make judgments that help and not hurt me.

My goal was to speak my truth even given the consequences of his anger. I think I've been afraid of asserting myself because he explodes when I even hint that I might need something else (because it implies he's not already doing it). Here where I feel out of my element, and feeling self-protective, I don't feel generous enough to turn my cheek. Would I do it again on this trip? Probably not, but I want to allow myself to make mistakes once in a while and admit to what was wrong with what I did (it was petty and unnecessary) without feeling like his exploding or running away is the way I will always affect someone.

@Never_falter, when I say explode, I mean that he gets triggered (you can even see his expression and energy change), he starts to shake, get highly emotive, defensive, accusatory, won't let me speak, raise his voice, peppers his talk with f-bombs, he broke the pencil, runs away. But I can recognize his shift as one of a ptsd-reaction since I get that way too, though much less frequently since therapy.

 

[scout86]

I think your post focused on me because rightly, I need to take agency for my part.

Mostly it focused on you because I took the goal to be how to survive until you can go your separate ways. I was assuming (incorrectly, as it turns out) that you were just dealing with sharing a residence until he could move out.

There's no chance that any adjustments are going to be made on his end. If there were, you might not be breaking up to begin with. You said he's not in therapy. I totally get that he's in the wrong with a lot of what he's doing. But he's not actually in a place where he can see that, is he? If he's not, all you're going to do is push his buttons and rile him up. I was thinking that's probably not a great idea, while you're still living together. It's not something I'd want to do while on a trip either, but that's just me.

That's what I meant by "the sheer joy of a really good fight". Sometimes that's kind of fun. Or kind of liberating. But it's also a fight. People get angry. Sometimes people get hurt. Generally there are winners and losers. Sometimes it's worth it, sometimes it's not.

My goal was to speak my truth even given the consequences of his anger.

Fair enough. But then you need to expect that there WILL be anger and there WILL be consequences. Deciding to take that on is a totally legitimate choice. Me? I'd save it for my next relationship, but that's me.

do I automatically give him ample understanding, meanwhile putting my needs for being heard aside, etc.?

Here's the thing, he's not GOING to hear you. He's going to hear the version of reality that makes it through the PTSD filter in his brain. So, it goes back to "what's your goal?" If you want to practice voicing your thoughts, go for it, but realize that he's not likely to behave like a healthy, well functioning adult. He's going to behave like someone who has untreated PTSD, because that's what he is.

 

[EveHarrington]

Are you working with your therapist on how to spot relationship red flags early so that your next chosen partner is healthy and not like your father?

 

[shimmerz]

My goal was to speak my truth even given the consequences of his anger.

I am just wondering why now? You know the end is near - so what is the point of speaking your truth now?

Is it a way to force yourself to disconnect from him before D-day? Lots of people actually do that when they know a relationship is coming to an end. My concern though is your child. And I am thinking now is not the time to be asserting yourself just to make a point or attempt to have him 'hear you'.

 

[Freida]

I was wondering the same thing as @shimmerz --- why now? Could it be that the light is at the end of the tunnel and it's a chance to stand up for yourself like you haven't been able until now -- when the relationship is over? What will you gain by changing your behavior towards him? If there is a gain then by all means yes, stand up for yourself. But. If it is just you are done with him and his crap, and you can't stand to look at him for one more minute, can you distract yourself until you go your separate ways?

 

[Deanna]

My boyfriend and myself are both medicated. There was a time where we were not and all the above happened. He is super paranoid and I can't stand paranoia because my mom was a sczitophrenic and still is.

I would say in order to save your relationship, you both need to sit down and talk about it. Sorry I couldn't have been if more help. Were are both childhood wrecked.. Or Both PTSD.

My T doesn't really help me because I went undiagnosed for half my life. So.. I can take her or leave her ( that's not meant to be mean) but medication is about all I can suggest

 

[PreciousChild]

Thanks for all of your replies, everyone. I'm back now from the "vacation" and feel like I have enough perspective to think about your posts. I want to reiterate that I understand that traveling is stressful, and when I posted, I was as much venting as I was searching for answers. But I think that the observation that I was just hitting a wall with my head by "speaking my truth" and perhaps attempting to forge a connection in a last spasm in reaction to relationship death seem pretty perceptive.

I really appreciate this comment:

There's no chance that any adjustments are going to be made on his end. If there were, you might not be breaking up to begin with. You said he's not in therapy.

I think under normal circumstances, I would not have tried to antagonize him knowing that this is true, and have mostly done that since the break-up. But what I did probably did not have a goal in mind. It was a spasm that only created an opportunity to unleash some bad energy. But fortunately, that was the last time we had a confrontation during the trip. After the incident, he came back from a few hours' break and apologized. I apologized too, but I told him I did NOT apologize for any reaction that went well beyond what was appropriate to what I said. He didn't say anything to that. I got the feeling that he realized he went overboard, though he can't truly see the significance of that without therapy and reflection. But I also appreciate the quote because I think I wanted reassurance that his perception is probably distorted and probably not reflective of my true self. I was struggling during the trip in part because I was hearing his constant negativity about me and I wanted to define myself somehow though my spasm ended up being a bit wrong-headed in approach.

If he's not, all you're going to do is push his buttons and rile him up. I was thinking that's probably not a great idea, while you're still living together. It's not something I'd want to do while on a trip either, but that's just me.

True dat.

Are you working with your therapist on how to spot relationship red flags early so that your next chosen partner is healthy and not like your father?

I will definitely be working on that. Funny, but I thought I had already begun to resolve many of my "daddy issues". I've been in therapy for decades, both pre- and post-ptsd diagnosis. I wonder if one ever truly resolves their s**t. I know that's a big discussion.

Is it a way to force yourself to disconnect from him before D-day?

I think you and @Freida might be right about this. He had spent a lot of time criticizing me at the beginning of the trip, and I saw as clear as day the underlying attachment that he still had to me that was driving his obsession. I thought it was very interesting that after that was over (though he continued to be negative in a more low-level way), I put out my own dig as though maybe I had my own attachment that I was trying to draw out.

Also, I just want to say that literally, that was probably the only fight my son witnessed in our entire relationship. When my ex came back from his break, he apologized and told my son that our fight had nothing to do with him. I think that it might actually be okay for my son to have seen that we actually do have problems, that we're not breaking up for no good reason. And though I said my ex raised his voice and broke a pencil, it was probably more emotionally intense than physically and audibly intense.

Here's the thing, he's not GOING to hear you. He's going to hear the version of reality that makes it through the PTSD filter in his brain.

One thing that I do think I take away from this incident is that it might be okay to voice your truth even if it causes anger and even if he doesn't hear you. This is something that I want to think about more, but I think that in a relationship, sometimes I try to bury the hatchet too quickly in the name of keeping the peace. But I think that rather than extinguishing anger, I want to work on healthy expressions of anger. Well, to be more nuanced, I want to genuinely resolve issues that cause anger, but there is anger that is stoked by current happenings that when justified, need to be expressed. I think that there's a fine line, but speaking one's truth irrespective of how the other will react can be brave or it can be futile. But again, I think in this situation where the relationship is already at an end, my expressing petty, angry comments didn't accomplish anything.

It's hard to end a relationship period, as people on this board have said. It still feels complicated, and probably will feel that way for a while. I do know that I am totally glad the relationship has ended. I have lost any romantic, fuzzy feelings for him. It almost seems like it was a different person that I fell for. I'm also only at the very beginning of having true insight about this relationship. For example, I can see some patterns that I fell for in my ex husband as well, like him being "easy" on the surface, but internally rageful. I play it safe, I think, as a ploy to dissociate myself from risks involved in falling for someone who might reject me. But the "safe" guy is actually only a mask, and maybe my subconscious can detect that. Let's say that I'll have a lot to talk about with my therapist for some time to come.

 

[shimmerz]

I think that it might actually be okay for my son to have seen that we actually do have problems, that we're not breaking up for no good reason.

I completely understand this and relate to it personally.