Struggles In Therapy

[mytai]

Please do not confuse the title "Struggles in Therapy" with "struggles with therapist". I have a really good therapeutic relationship with my T. Just because I have a good relationship with my T doesn't mean I don't have struggles in therapy, but I also have a lot of positives in therapy with my T.

My current struggles with therapy have to do with when my T brings up the subject of sex. She never asks me about my sex life, but she does use examples of previous clients (generalized - non-descriptive) issues surrounding sex. That is a very, very uneasy topic for me, it makes me very uncomfortable. I'm sure my T has a reason for bringing it up, she doesn't seem to do anything without a reason (whether I know what it is or not). Any talk surrounding sex is hard for me because I've never had consensual sex, I've had a lot of sex, but I've never said yes. If I'm being 100% honest it's not just because I've never had consensual sex, it's also because I can clearly remember having an orgasm on two separate occasions while being raped. I've never, ever admitted that before to anyone or even written it down.

I can't even fathom talking to my T about this, but it has a lot to do with my inability to move forward, my inability to let go of any guilt or responsibility in this. I know it is important to voice to my T, she can't read my mind, and she can't help me with things I don't tell her. So I understand the importance of opening up and sharing this piece of information with her, I just don't know how to. I know I'm not alone in this, I know there are others out there who have had an orgasm while being raped - but how have you talked to your T about this? It is mortifying for me to even think about talking to her about this. It has been part of the reason why my flashbacks and nightmares have been so intense lately. It is on my mind constantly and I feel such an intense guilt over it.

I don't have fear over how my T will react because I trust her. All the fear has to do with sharing it, getting it out there, what it means to admit that it happened. I'm not taking the easy way out with my T anymore, I'm not doing email to give information I'm too scared to verbalize. I do still email her, but I keep it to asking questions, clarifying, or saying that I need to talk about a certain situation to remind myself. So emailing her about this is not an option, even though I know she would allow me to. I'm not making it an option to cop out and email her the details because I'm too scared to say it out loud.

Has anyone shared this with their T yet? How did it go? How did you do it? Did it help?

I'm scared mainly that by sharing I will throw myself into an intense flashback and humiliate myself.

 

[Smile]

Hi @mytai.

It seems to me as though your T might be trying to get you comfortable with talking about sex by distancing it for yourself an talking about others.

One way you can broach the subject is by telling her it makes you feel uncomfortable wen she does that. She will inevitably ask you why and you can go from there...

As to finding it hard to actually say the words out loud... I actually had this issue at my last session. What I did was write out what I wanted to say into my phone (piece of oaper works just as well) and then just read it. That way you don't have to actually FEEL what your saying, just forcing yourself t read out loud. Another plus is that you don't have to maintain eye contact :)

Good luck! It was so hard for me to do but so glad I was able to get it out of the way in order to continue on this path of healing :)

 

[Seasounds]

I'm glad you shared so honestly; brave, real, and hopefully relieving. I haven't had organisms while being raped, but sexual pleasure. It complicates the experience.

Personally, I think your therapist is speaking out of line, since you have not initiated the topic. As you T may have a motive to open up the conversation, you can say, "I'm not comfortable speaking on that topic." If your T doesn't respect your boundary, leave.

Therapists inject their issues into their clients session, without awareness that they are doing it. When therapists inject their issues, it is not good therapy.

 

[GWhizz]

It is a really difficult subject for you to bring up, but believe me you are not alone in this. It is not your fault that you felt perfectly normal body reactions to stimulation. I know how hard it is to not feel in some way an accomplice, feeling you got something out of it. But you didn't and this is really complicated and confusing.

I think your T sounds as though she's trying to assess your comfort level on the subject of sex in general before delving deeper. My T does this kind of thing, like she's mentioned the 'R' word to test how I react etc, though I still haven't been able talk about any of it yet. I actually plan on sending an email to her before our next session so we can address somethings that have been just to painful to come out with. Like you, it's not that I have any problem with her or how she'll react, it is just humiliating to verbalize and I guess makes it all the more real and intense, exposing me fully.

Please don't pressurise yourself to much too talk if not ready. There is nothing wrong with writing it down on a piece of paper 1st and handing that to her, then discussing what you wrote - at least it's out there and it's not a 'cop out', it's hard and brave either way. Well done on wanting to get this out, this is a really good step I would think. I really hope you get to express it as you need to, at the right time for you

 

[StarChild]

Dear mytai, @anthony created an article about exactly this "phenomenon". I'll put the link in, and hope, it might help you dealing with the guilt you're feeling.

https://www.myptsd.com/threads/an-orgasm-during-sexual-abuse-does-not-mean-you-liked-it.86518/

 

[digger]

I'm not taking the easy way out with my T anymore…/… So emailing her about this is not an option, even though I know she would allow me to. I'm not making it an option to cop out and email her the details because I'm too scared to say it out loud.

Writing things down or emailing as a starting point for these conversations is not a 'cop out' or an 'easy' option. For some of us it's the only way to get this stuff out there.

 

[scout86]

I think you've already made a brave start to the process by bringing this up here. Sex is a difficult topic for most people in many situations. It only makes sense that it's going to be difficult in therapy. It especially makes sense that it would be difficult when it is so strongly linked to trauma. Trauma is hard to talk about too.

I don't have an answer to your question, because, so far, I haven't initiated ANY topic I didn't want to talk about. I tried once. My T apparently thought it wasn't the right time, because he smiled like he appreciated the effort, and changed the subject. (To something else that was at least as difficult. LOL)

What I wanted to bring up to you is this,

I'm scared mainly that by sharing I will throw myself into an intense flashback and humiliate myself.

Can you think of that differently? I know you don't want to have a flashback. But, you trust your T. She's seen you have flashbacks before and you both survived the experience. I'm sure she's up for it and isn't afraid of it. She would be concerned for you and your suffering, but she can handle that. The whole "flashback" thing is something that happens because of PTSD and wiring issues in your brain. It's not something that you're directly responsible for and can control. You can try to avoid those situations, of course, but avoidance is a temporary, short term "solution". It doesn't really solve anything. If avoidance "fixed" this, we'd all avoid therapy and live happily ever after.

How did you find the courage to bring this up here? Maybe bringing it up in therapy is similar? If you haven't already read the article that @SweetLullaby mentioned, it's pretty good and discusses exactly what you're questioning. (Orgasm during rape, not talking to your therapist about it.) Although the article is good, I suspect this is one of those cases where knowing the facts is useful but truly believing that it applies to us, personally, is another step.

 

[mytai]

I think your therapist is speaking out of line, since you have not initiated the topic. As you T may have a motive to open up the conversation, you can say, "I'm not comfortable speaking on that topic." If your T doesn't respect your boundary, leave.

I don't think she is speaking out of line, we are on the topic of abuse, which in my case was sexual in nature. She was speaking about how sometimes people don't even know they are abused until they have sex for the first time and it all comes flooding back then. My T always respects my boundaries, and often sets boundaries on what we talk about to protect me if she thinks it might hurt me.

it is just humiliating to verbalize and I guess makes it all the more real and intense, exposing me fully.
Please don't pressurise yourself to much too talk if not ready. There is nothing wrong with writing it down on a piece of paper 1st and handing that to her, then discussing what you wrote - at least it's out there and it's not a 'cop out', it's hard and brave either way.

It does make it more real and intense, and much like you I feel exposed when sharing things like this. Thank you, I think I almost need permission to do something other than just verbalize it to my T - that seems silly when I think about it, but I never feel like I can just do it.

Writing things down or emailing as a starting point for these conversations is not a 'cop out' or an 'easy' option. For some of us it's the only way to get this stuff out there.

@digger, I'm sorry if I made it sound like I think others are "weak" or taking the easy road by writing things out to their T - that wasn't my intention at all. Everyone is at a different stage in therapy, and I was at a point in therapy where it took every ounce of strength I had to hand a note to my T with something difficult written on it. I have found that for me I tend to rely too heavily on writing emails and notes to the point where I don't try and push myself in therapy with my T because I know I will just email her about it later so I don't have to deal with the emotions behind it.

Can you think of that differently? I know you don't want to have a flashback. But, you trust your T. She's seen you have flashbacks before and you both survived the experience. I'm sure she's up for it and isn't afraid of it. She would be concerned for you and your suffering, but she can handle that.

Not sure of how to think about it differently... any suggestions? I do trust my T, a hell of a lot. I know she's seen me have flashbacks, she has seen me get startled to the point of hysterical crying, and she's now seen me try to inflict pain on myself to bring myself out of a flashback (that I found hard to think about after). I've never had an "intense" flashback in her office, in fact I've never had one in front of anyone ever. All flashbacks feel horrible, but the only time I've had the ones I label "intense" have been in the privacy of my own home (to the best of my knowledge). Those ones involve my whole body, to the point of getting up, moving around, hiding, talking, etc. Almost like I'm entirely reliving it again. I know she is capable of handling it, I just don't know if I am.

How did you find the courage to bring this up here? Maybe bringing it up in therapy is similar?

It was something causing me such intense pain that I needed to ask someone and I don't know how to talk to my T about it. Not sure how to bring it up with her and still stay present.

 

[BloomInWinter]

Our therapists are supposed to identify areas of avoidance in our narratives because they are clues to traumas which are affecting our current functioning.

Once avoidance areas are identified, the process of prolonged exposure therapy begins. They breach the topic using very general terms sprinkled in the sessions, and quickly move onto different subjects so we do get triggered a bit but get pulled out of it.

Eventually, we stop being triggered so easily, and our brains habituate to the topic. Then, they can go deeper in the topic, until we eventually reach a point where we can begin thinking about it, then move on to mentioning it, then exploring it, then processing, and finally transform it.

It's a very safe, effective, though unpleasant therapy. It does require much trust, but the process also helps build trust and strengthens the therapeutic relationship.

Your questioning of this shows you're making great progress. :tup:

 

[mytai]

@BloomInWinter, I know it is a topic I want to discuss with her because it is causing so many problems for me right now, but I don't know how to approach it with her. I trust her with every part of me, she has never given me a reason to question that, and has given me every reason to trust in her. Any suggestions on how to approach it with her? Ideally I would prefer not to email her about it or write a letter, but I am unsure about how to start a discussion about it.

 

[scout86]

@mytai, a couple of weeks ago I had an incident, at work, where I got triggered. This doesn't come up often, or I don't get what's actually happening when it does, so I don't call it by the right name. In a session, my T asked if I had any particular triggers, that I though we should work on. I couldn't think of any, but mentioned this incident. My "homework assignment" was to "think of other ways I might have responded to that." Not the BEST way, mind you, but as many options as I could come up with, both sensible and ridiculous. My first reaction what that he was nuts. But, his point was that I DO have options, if I recognize them and decide to use them and practicing ahead of time is helpful. (I'm not saying that the next time will go smoothly, but there's probably going to be a next time and now I have a plan.)

In this case, more what I was thinking was that you think of the consequences of having a flashback as being something OTHER than humiliating yourself. You actually have a choice about that, when you think about it. I can see how thinking of it the way you are makes sense, but it's not helpful at the moment. So, maybe think, "Worst case, I might have a flashback, and it might be a bad one, but at least my T will be there to help me through it and she might learn something she can use in the process and it will eventually be over and I will have accomplished this goal." She's not going to think less of you, because that's not the kind of person she is. She's also not going to be freaked out because she's a professional and a good one. She can handle it, and it seems like you can too.

As far as how to bring it up. "There's something I'd like to talk about, but I'm not sure how to start." is the line I've been saving for the day when I have enough guts, and a good enough reason, to use it. You may borrow that, if it helps. Once you say something like that, she will most likely ask a question that will help you along and then you can take another step. I'm sure it's going to be awkward, but I'm also sure you can do it and you'll be glad you did.

@BloomInWinter , thanks for that post! It explains some things that I've been noticing in therapy, including an incident when my T changed the subject when I offered to discuss something he knows I DON'T want to discuss. I'm guessing he changed the subject because he didn't think it was the right time.

 

[Justmehere]

Maybe you could tell her there is a topic you don't know how to talk about, and see what she says?

I have done this a few times and my therapist has been quite helpful in those moments.

One time I was trying to share something hard, I became completely frozen up and then gotten visibly frustrated trying to talk. We talked about that, and what my fears were in talking about the subject, and soon enough we worked through it where I was able to talk about the subject itself. It was really helpful on many levels.

Another time I talked about a difficult subject in a vague "hypothetical problem" way and I got a sense of her opinions on the matter - she if course then said... Do you struggle with this? But by the time we got to that, it didn't seem to scary to face how real it was because I got to hear how she was so non-judgemental about it in general.

In the end, our Ts hear all kinds of stuff all the time. If you ease into it, or just blurt it out, she will be there for you to help you walk through it no matter how you say it. I know you probably know this, but I mention it because something that helps me to stay more grounded is to remember all the hard things I've talked to her about before, and how safe she has been with everything else. It's a CBT technique to challenge my fears, and it sometimes helps.

It sounds like your T and you have a great relationship and like you really want to work through this. Hang in there and you will get through!