The Codependence, Stockhom Syndrome And Caretaking Discussion Thread!

[kacee129]

Yes you can offer. You can say if there is anything I can do let me know, but then you have to let it go. Which is what codependants have a hard time doing. We want to fix that other person. I know from experience. Letting go is something I have a hard time doing. I always think "maybe if I word it this way, or maybe if I do this, or that". In the process I get myself so concerned about how I'm going to "help" the other person that I forget about myself.

 

[Meadowsweet]

Apologising and having sex with someone after they've beaten you up, because you feel really bad that you've caused them to lose their temper.

I'm not sure if this is a syndrome or a survival technique that is used because it works (not sure if there is a difference).

Seeking out the back-story and relating to the abuser as the hurt child.

Trying to make a good impression on the 'leader of the pack' or 'alpha male/female'.

I'm not sure if co-dependency, stockholm syndrome and caretaking are completely linked. Because I experience/have experienced the behaviors above, but when somebody is outwardly acting like the victim, I feel very little sympathy and no inclination to care for them. It's dominant, aggressive and abusive people I want to take care of.

 

[p-no]

I'd like to just say again, I'm not a native English speaker, so discussing things like this can lead to misunderstandings as words can have connotations all of which I may not aware of. Just saying. Please feel free to ask anything for clarification with regard to what I write here. :)

Over empathising with others whilst loosing touch with or not considering our own feelings and needs. That could be CD (codependency), Stockholm

This is were I see a fine line between CD and Stockholm. I have no experience with caretaking in the sense I think you refer to for this thread. I do think that what you wrote, @Abstract, does apply to CD, but I think not for Stockholm in my experience and of how I have viewed Stockholm. My own Stockholm has me lose my self. I "literally" vanish. I do not only lose touch with my own feelings and needs, I become a different person, yet not in the sense of DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder). I feel I go into survival mode, which has my self lock up in my most inner core, some sort of solid steel safe that is hidden very, very deep inside of me. Even if someone came and found the key to the first door, there would be a million more doors they'd have to find the respective keys for to make their way to the room that solid steel safe is in. My self is locked away so effectively, that, to me, "losing touch with or not considering our own feelings and needs" is saying way too little. Even if I wanted to get in touch with or consider my own feelings and needs, I would NOT be ABLE to when in Stockholm mode. It maybe is a bit like locking my self away so much and ensuring the safety of the solid steel safe by not even telling myself how to find the way back to that room the safe is in. It's a little bit like the search for the Holy Grail in the movie The DaVinci Code...

Not being able to feel OK if those around us are not - absorbing others feelings.

The first part ("not being able to feel OK if those around us are not") I can see as a CD thing, the second part ("absorbing others feelings") I have a hard time seeing as a CD thing. I think, up to a certain extent, it may well be part of CD, or can be, but I think from a certain extent, it would go as Stockholm for me.

In the first part, I can see a person not losing their self. In the second part I can though, see a person losing their self. I mean their whole self, not just a part of their self. For me, I feel and think I have never lost my whole self in CD, but in Stockholm. I think there is a fine line, or may be, or I may well just be wrong.

Just trying to find more clarity...

like what if someone needs help, do you have to wait for them to ask? Can you never offer?

What kacee said. Plus, I think you can also just "help" without wording it as such. Example: The guy I've been seeing has anxiety on public transport. So I just take over in the sense that I will see to him or us leaving the house on time, buy the ticket, let him choose to sit where he wants, because my anxiety on public transport is A LOT less. I can have high levels of anxiety in other circumstances/situations and it is when he takes over and ensures I am feeling okay, not get under pressure, etc. We've been mindful of one another. Reason I'm saying this: there's a fine line you have to be mindful about as well. Which leads me to:

Codependency, and, I assume, Caretaking: Being too mindful of the other, i.e. losing sight of yourself.

I think it is necessary to be mindful of you WHILE being mindful of the other.

 

[sisu]

I became so accomodating to him and his PTSD needs in our relationship that I lost myself. Now that we are broken up after 3 years I am having a hard time finding myself again.

 

[DMerish]

Interesting topic, Abstract; one that many of us could gain insight from :tup:

Being "porous" describes the condition well. At times, I've felt that I'm responsible for all the suffering in the world and it was my duty to take action to alleviate other people suffering. I've paid dearly, and unnecessarily, for having that unhealthy attitude.

In many ways I was raised to put other people's needs before my own. But I also got the message to look after myself. So, for a long while and still to some extent today, I have trouble knowing when I'm trying to fix others, recognizing tendencies for co-dependence, and when to put my needs first.

With regard to Stockholm syndrome, I think that believing my (ex) abuser's lies about his "crazy" ex-wife and feeling sorry for him and his children is what got me "hooked" (thinking my actions could provide us, "our family" a better life). It wasn't until I realized/felt that I was being blamed for his shortcomings and problems and not addressing my own needs well, that I had been taken hostage. Only then was I able to "escape" . . .

A few years ago I realized several of my "friendships" were based on mutual co-dependency rather than the an affinity of shared interests, and that the co-dependency was often at my expense. I cut those bonds and as a result have few friends now. Due to my particular circumstances other friendships, healthy friendships, got lost. I've recently re-connected with a few of those folks - one of which I met with this last weekend whom I hadn't seen in twelve years. Our meeting, our visit, was different than that between the people whom I've cut from my life. She and I talked - shared joy over each other's accomplishments over the years and empathy over what we've each been through. What impressed me most about our visit was that my feelings were my own - I didn't "take on" her feelings, her challenges, nor had the sense that she needed me to fix anything. And, although I felt genuine empathy from her when describing some things I'd been through, it was a relief to feel to feel respected, that I have the strength to handle my own difficulties.

For the most part, I've come a long way to letting others have their own experience. Nevertheless, I have to admit that posting in reply to difficulties other people are faced with here on myptsd feeds my co-dependency a little bit. I'm in process, and I don't think that's necessarily bad. I think it's important to learn how to give and receive support in a healthy way and this is one venue where learning to do that in a safe manner can be accomplished.

At this point, I think it's accurate to say I'm a recovering co-dependent, lol!

Drew

 

[zaniara]

My own Stockholm has me lose my self. I "literally" vanish. I do not only lose touch with my own feelings and needs, I become a different person, yet not in the sense of DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder). I feel I go into survival mode, which has my self lock up in my most inner core, some sort of solid steel safe that is hidden very, very deep inside of me. Even if someone came and found the key to the first door, there would be a million more doors they'd have to find the respective keys for to make their way to the room that solid steel safe is in. My self is locked away so effectively, that, to me, "losing touch with or not considering our own feelings and needs" is saying way too little. Even if I wanted to get in touch with or consider my own feelings and needs, I would NOT be ABLE to when in Stockholm mode. It maybe is a bit like locking my self away so much and ensuring the safety of the solid steel safe by not even telling myself how to find the way back to that room the safe is in.

Thank you so much for writing this!! :) (I linked to it in my diary, and hope that's okay.) It really.. well explained a lot to me! I do struggle with co-dependency as well: but that's not as hard to deal with as the Stockholm syndrome. What you wrote was the most accurate description of what happens when that mode sets in in me, that I have ever read or heard. Actually you used some of the words I've tried to find and use(not as eloquently put though) when I have tried to explain this to others.

I think that's part of the reason I need solitude so much. I can assert my self and be me more now than before, in the company of people I feel safe with(at least almost safe: since I don't feel totally safe with anyone really) and when I feel strong. But then I still struggle with co-dependency behaviors. But those I can somehow work on..

But I can't do anything about me vanishing when badly triggered. The fact that I went into hiding as a child kept some part of me intact though that would have been destroyed otherwise. But acting like that now can cause me to hurt, humiliate and betray my self in so many ways. Before reading this thread about it it never occurred to me to link it to Stockholm syndrome- but of course it is. I was programmed to love, be loyal and conform totally with my father and the other abusers as well.

And sometimes those times: the periods where I have been in a relationship that was abusive or been in situations where I 'went into hiding' is all blurry to me. Because I wasn't there for real. And remembering what I did, what I was thinking, what I was saying and talking to anyone about it make me feel like if I'm talking about somebody else. And it feels very awkward, because that person wasn't what I am about. At all. And no, I don't have DID. But I can dissociate and "play-act" so much that it's like I've been drunk the whole time. Drunk with a lot of blackouts..

That is what I fear the most: not being abused again, but losing my self like that again. Worst case scenario I do so for years: and it could end badly. Since in those crazy relationships I could snap one day and possibly end up killing someone(scared and ashamed to confess this)- especially since I really got desperate whenever the abuser left me: and that desperation only got worse for every time it happened. ) I really hope trauma-therapy will help me change this for real.

OH. Now I'm rambling and flooding! Will stop there. Very interesting thread!

 

[Eleanor]

Kacee, is there any chance we could be twins separated at birth?;)

Here is another thing I find myself doing - obsessing about diagnosing. Trying to figure out what is wrong with him and trying to figure out how to fix it.

In reality - not my problem.

I suppose if he wants research assistant help, he'll ask for it. In the meantime, I should mind my own business. (Actively, that is, mind my own business and get busy taking care of me.)