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The ptsd cup explanation

eSp

Policy Enforcement
#49
I align more with military than law enforcement ...
<Heavy sigh>
Whereas just below you characterize my narrative as `going all over the map', I experience your spurious use of `because' as placing a `you are here' on your personal map.
I seriously doubt you have a clue as to the actual causality of what you claim as if cut and dry, and factual.


You are going all over the map on your rant and I can’t really follow it..
No matter.
I didn't write it for you personally to understand or you as someone who identifies with `military' and having a subforum within this group to express yourself among like-minded, military-oriented PTSD-afflicted folks.
So I feel no failure of mission in that someone who poses an either-or, black-or-white juxtaposition of military OR law enforcement ... while not even mentioning civilian-non-military PTSD or complex PTSD.
You've evinced one of the themes woven into that narrative you likened as `going all over the map': you and other military-minded types typically DON'T GET IT.
You don't look-for and/or don't acknowledge how your upbringing (EG nurture as contrasted with nature) primed you for entry into the military branch in which you enlisted.
Have you ever, for example, pondered why you didn't join the peace corp, or the coast guard?
Has it ever crossed your mind that your upbringing primed you for `kill or be killed' scenarios in a way those not thusly primed and conditioned weren't?

While in the navy I had seal team wash outs for room mates at two separate bases.
The last one used to eat beer glasses at the Enlisted Man's club by night then scream and shit blood in the morning after.
It sucks identifying with an image of Self as macho then ringing that wash-out bell like a wuss THEN having to live with one's Persona fronting for a `very stable genius' Self in the aftermath.

So, as far you understanding my post, feel free to belay my last; it was written for those who MIGHT `get it'.
There will be no quiz, so feel free to stand down and seek solace with your Seal team bros.

Cheers!
 
#50
You don't look-for and/or don't acknowledge how your upbringing (EG nurture as contrasted with nature) primed you for entry into the military branch in which you enlisted.
Have you ever, for exampled, pondered why you didn't join the peace corp, or the coast guard?
Has it ever crossed your mind that your upbringing primed you for `kill or be killed' scenarios in a way those not thusly primed and conditioned weren't?
I wasn’t in the military and not in the military group. My upbringing was great two parents in the home that have been married 50+ years so upbringing had nothing to do with it. I had no desire to join the peace corps and went to college. So the generalization about kill/be killed is way off base. I went into law enforcement to help people 100% voluntarily not because of the money or lack there of. Then went to narcotics voluntarily then joined DEA voluntarily. Again because I wanted to help people. I also joined FAST teams voluntarily because I wanted to work beside the best. Why rant about a branch of the service when no one made you sign up? You always had the choice to do it or not.
 

eSp

Policy Enforcement
#51
I wasn’t in the military and not in the military group.
Yet below you proclaim -- unvetted and uncorroborated -- to `law enforcement' as if tweedle dee and tweedle dumb weren't both non-civilian, hierarchically-structured, and staffed by like-minded functionaries -- agents, administrators, employees -- of the US executive branch of government?
Need we remind you that it was YOU who attempted to draw favorable light by association with SEALS, etc.
I've KNOWN real SEALS as well as washouts.
Would you care to guess how much wow factor I experienced at your name dropping?

My upbringing was great two parents in the home that have been married 50+ years so upbringing had nothing to do with it.
Please remind me again what the `it' was, is, or seems to be.
`It' certainly wasn't any of the assortment of `it' you characterized as `all over the map' in the post you responded to.
So my prattle apparently triggered something or other in you which became the `it' for/to you.
Please feel free to assert that I'm `off base' again if this seems to apply ... once again, as I wander aimlessly all over the public territory you've been trying to map, if not landscape.

I had no desire to join the peace corps and went to college.
A laudable option given your lack of motivation to `help' in non-violent ways. One option I had both BEFORE I enlisted, and of which I ultimately availed myself full-time AFTER mustering out

So the generalization about kill/be killed is way off base.
Sorry about that.
During my enlistment I always lived `on base', whereas most of my enlisted peers preferred to live `off base' so they could indulge in freedom from authoritarian selective enforcement of the laws, statutes, and regulations at a lower risk of authoritarian yahoos than if indulging in illicit, albeit `recreational' drugs and out-of-wedlock sex ON BASE.
Yes, my mistake.
You posed two quasi-military either-or options while neglecting to address civilian strains of Traumatic injury, cPTSD among them, as I did in my post in response to them mentioned in the OP.
And here you are faulting me while once again going off on YOUR tangential red hearing baiting of `the territory' while drawing attention `way off track' -- corresponding with `way off base' -- vis-a-vis the tracks I layed down on my meandering trek yesterday.

I went into law enforcement to help people 100% voluntarily not because of the money or lack there of. Then went to narcotics voluntarily then joined DEA voluntarily.
Cool.
Voluntarily as per the myth of Free Will, which is what allows moralizing, self-righteous assholes in all three branches of US Government to play their officious roles and yet still sleep well at night.
As this group is themed upon Trauma, and Dr. Gabor Maté has addressed the notion of `free will' as it applies to both drug addiction and Trauma, perhaps others reading this post who are not inclined or predisposed to respond-as-if `all over the map' might experience sufficient curiosity to research this on your behalf and get back to your well-intentioned self.


Again because I wanted to help people.
Ahhh ... this may be a source of friction and discord; my wants are more aligned with Henry David Thoreau's recommendation of how to respond when a do-gooder comes to one's door. The exact quote escapes me.
Though here you are. Apparently I pushed your door bell and/or triggered the response you've provided us thus far.
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxi culpa.
I suppose it serves me right -- in a `no good deed goes unpunished' sort of way -- to attempt to `help' by conjuring up `content' which might have been better for you personally, and whoever else didn't respond or react well to the stimuli I presented yesterday.

Does this help?
About Trauma * Trauma Information Pages

I also joined FAST teams voluntarily because I wanted to work beside the best.
Uhhh ... `the best' are trauma workers who clean up the mess the yahoos, cowboys, and men of daring do CREATE.
Though I suppose we can chock this up to artistic differences and how they apply to the (mis)use of superlatives.
There's simply no accounting for tastes -- or lack thereof -- is there?

As if?
As if I were either `ranting' OR the theme you've either honestly apperceived in my ink blots or ARE spinning -- as per political speech -- WAS, is, or shall-be whatever you'd spin it into in a public forum, out here in the common turf?

... a branch of the service when no one made you sign up?
`made', unilaterally with a gun held to my head?
Right you are.
No one held a gun to my head anymore than those lower and lower-middle class recruits nowadays who don't have their daddy's and mommy's jobs to fill upon their retirement ... or a nest egg of a child of one of the top 1% with a trust fund to keep them in the drugs by which DEA agents ever so diligently `earn' their paychecks and all the admiration-inspiring virtue and gratitude their brinkmanship and bravado induces.
I've got a quick question for you in passing: how many DEA agents battered down the doors of Purdue Pharma pursuant to saving all the lives lost to OxyContin?
From the bottom of my black heart, "Thank you for your service!"

You always had the choice to do it or not.
And every person you confront with a weapon drawn has choices too. Don't they?
Assuming of course your life actually plays out as the persona you've attempted to spin here, of course. 8-{

Okay, I've responded to your distraction away from the points I attempted to make via my original response to the original poster who revealed both cPTSD patterns established both BEFORE entering the military and PTSD in the form of MST DURING a stint in a branch of the US military.

Now I'm going to express a bit of Jungian synchronicity I experienced having been primed by interaction with a pair of uniformed officers of the law just yesterday. Please be warned, @Rainman8772, I'm going to be laying down tracks for you follow or not. I'm not going to attempt to make your half-hearted or feigned attempts at map making any easier than it was for me to tolerate the behavior of those two performers on the world stage who supposedly took an oath to protect the constitution of the US against `enemies foreign and domestic', which I have on several occasions.

I was at a local park/reservation yesterday enjoying some fresh air and sunlight. I was favoring a section which has a creek passing through it. I enjoy skipping stones, placing stepping stones, and co-manifesting casual conversation with fellow park visitors.
So you're left to ponder and wonder why a pair of uniformed police officers would approach me.

Given the spirit and letter-of-the-law of the 14th amendment's `fair and equal protection' clause they shouldn't have. Period.
That they did and violated MY right to fair and equal protection of the law while supposedly motivated by the same do-gooder `want to help people' motivation you've revealed is presently RE-experienced as rich, though at the time I was confronted my frontal lobes were working overtime to quash an amygdala hijack a la PTSD arising from previous trauma delivered at the hands of -- you guessed it -- uniformed assholes on the payroll of a police department ... about 2 years and some change ago.
As a civilian you just haven't lived until you've had a corrupt cop pull a gun on you as he's acting on behalf of a landlord who has physically assaulted you while you're visiting a tenant supposedly having a tenant's right to guests. But that's a story for another time, if ever.

One of the two cops asked for ID. I opened my wallet, pulled out my veteran's picture ID card and presented this as per my civil responsibility to provide ID upon demand by a police officer.
Any guesses as to the response by the cop and his partner?
Was his right to request ID duly discharged and satisfied by the reception of the Federal/national ID I compliantly provided?
No.
An abuse of power ensued which resulted in my anonymity being trashed as those in the viewing audience saw ME confronted-by and associating-with uniformed police.
Can those in the audience of the histrionic/dramatic cops enacting the performance artistry of a Keystone Cops movie FORGET what they saw, or THOUGHT or suspected they saw?
Can my under-the-radar, low profile be RE-established or restored?
At least 3 members of that police force -- the two confronting me and the one on the radio back at HQ -- NOW have my NAME and face associated together their neural nets for re-use by their alleged minds.
At least 6 civilians with whom I was interacting while co-constructing a stepping stone walkway across that creek now know my surname because the dipshit officer demanding access to my ID REVEALED it, ever so politely, as he -- with his partner as backup -- addressed me in front of strangers supposedly having the same civil liberties and same rights as me.
Everyone's anonymity was preserved but mine.
Any guess as to the nature of the complaint they said they were responding to?

I was surveilled and confronted in response to a triggering call to action in the form of contact from a member of John or Jane Q. Public whose anonymity vis-a-vis me and those 6 civilians thus making me a victim of the `crime' of which I was accusatively suspected ... by overt or covert attention whores, undoubtedly motivated by brother love and a burning desire to `help people'.

Ready for another `all over the map' non-tangential thread of discourse?
George Orwell WAS a `cop' deployed in a British Colony before opting to change career path from that to authoring English prose for fun an profit. It's no mystery to me how the the term `pig' came to be used by protestors during the 1960's; George Orwell's use of the Pig as a power hungry more-equal denizen of the Animal Farm was -- I strongly suspect -- the origin of that synonym for `police officer'.

And when free-will lovers in the legislative branches define by statute `endogenous morphine' as-if a `drug' the ever so helpful and dutiful college-educated agents of the DEA will have JUST CAUSE to arrest us all.

Just a few meandering, all-over-the-map thoughts.

Cheers!
 

joeylittle

Administrator
#52
Hey, @eSp - I'm trying to understand what occurred in the event you're describing, above - sequence-of-events-style.

Is this accurate?

--you went for a walk to a usual walking-spot
--some unknown asshole called in a complaint about you - you don't know who it was, what the complaint was, or what you might have been doing to warrant it. So, spurious claim.
--two cops came, asked to see ID, you complied
--one of them said your name outloud (over the radio?), which revealed your name to people who had no business knowing it.
 
#53
Yet below you proclaim -- unvetted and uncorroborated -- to `law enforcement' as if tweedle dee and tweedle dumb weren't both non-civilian, hierarchically-structured, and staffed by like-minded functionaries -- agents, administrators, employees -- of the US executive branch of government?
Need we remind you that it was YOU who attempted to draw favorable light by association with SEALS, etc.
I've KNOWN real SEALS as well as washouts.
Would you care to guess how much wow factor I experienced at your name dropping?



Please remind me again what the `it' was, is, or seems to be.
`It' certainly wasn't any of the assortment of `it' you characterized as `all over the map' in the post you responded to.
So my prattle apparently triggered something or other in you which became the `it' for/to you.
Please feel free to assert that I'm `off base' again if this seems to apply ... once again, as I wander aimlessly all over the public territory you've been trying to map, if not landscape.



A laudable option given your lack of motivation to `help' in non-violent ways. One option I had both BEFORE I enlisted, and of which I ultimately availed myself full-time AFTER mustering out



Sorry about that.
During my enlistment I always lived `on base', whereas most of my enlisted peers preferred to live `off base' so they could indulge in freedom from authoritarian selective enforcement of the laws, statutes, and regulations at a lower risk of authoritarian yahoos than if indulging in illicit, albeit `recreational' drugs and out-of-wedlock sex ON BASE.
Yes, my mistake.
You posed two quasi-military either-or options while neglecting to address civilian strains of Traumatic injury, cPTSD among them, as I did in my post in response to them mentioned in the OP.
And here you are faulting me while once again going off on YOUR tangential red hearing baiting of `the territory' while drawing attention `way off track' -- corresponding with `way off base' -- vis-a-vis the tracks I layed down on my meandering trek yesterday.



Cool.
Voluntarily as per the myth of Free Will, which is what allows moralizing, self-righteous assholes in all three branches of US Government to play their officious roles and yet still sleep well at night.
As this group is themed upon Trauma, and Dr. Gabor Maté has addressed the notion of `free will' as it applies to both drug addiction and Trauma, perhaps others reading this post who are not inclined or predisposed to respond-as-if `all over the map' might experience sufficient curiosity to research this on your behalf and get back to your well-intentioned self.




Ahhh ... this may be a source of friction and discord; my wants are more aligned with Henry David Thoreau's recommendation of how to respond when a do-gooder comes to one's door. The exact quote escapes me.
Though here you are. Apparently I pushed your door bell and/or triggered the response you've provided us thus far.
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxi culpa.
I suppose it serves me right -- in a `no good deed goes unpunished' sort of way -- to attempt to `help' by conjuring up `content' which might have been better for you personally, and whoever else didn't respond or react well to the stimuli I presented yesterday.

Does this help?
About Trauma * Trauma Information Pages



Uhhh ... `the best' are trauma workers who clean up the mess the yahoos, cowboys, and men of daring do CREATE.
Though I suppose we can chock this up to artistic differences and how they apply to the (mis)use of superlatives.
There's simply no accounting for tastes -- or lack thereof -- is there?



As if?
As if I were either `ranting' OR the theme you've either honestly apperceived in my ink blots or ARE spinning -- as per political speech -- WAS, is, or shall-be whatever you'd spin it into in a public forum, out here in the common turf?



`made', unilaterally with a gun held to my head?
Right you are.
No one held a gun to my head anymore than those lower and lower-middle class recruits nowadays who don't have their daddy's and mommy's jobs to fill upon their retirement ... or a nest egg of a child of one of the top 1% with a trust fund to keep them in the drugs by which DEA agents ever so diligently `earn' their paychecks and all the admiration-inspiring virtue and gratitude their brinkmanship and bravado induces.
I've got a quick question for you in passing: how many DEA agents battered down the doors of Purdue Pharma pursuant to saving all the lives lost to OxyContin?
From the bottom of my black heart, "Thank you for your service!"



And every person you confront with a weapon drawn has choices too. Don't they?
Assuming of course your life actually plays out as the persona you've attempted to spin here, of course. 8-{

Okay, I've responded to your distraction away from the points I attempted to make via my original response to the original poster who revealed both cPTSD patterns established both BEFORE entering the military and PTSD in the form of MST DURING a stint in a branch of the US military.

Now I'm going to express a bit of Jungian synchronicity I experienced having been primed by interaction with a pair of uniformed officers of the law just yesterday. Please be warned, @Rainman8772, I'm going to be laying down tracks for you follow or not. I'm not going to attempt to make your half-hearted or feigned attempts at map making any easier than it was for me to tolerate the behavior of those two performers on the world stage who supposedly took an oath to protect the constitution of the US against `enemies foreign and domestic', which I have on several occasions.

I was at a local park/reservation yesterday enjoying some fresh air and sunlight. I was favoring a section which has a creek passing through it. I enjoy skipping stones, placing stepping stones, and co-manifesting casual conversation with fellow park visitors.
So you're left to ponder and wonder why a pair of uniformed police officers would approach me.

Given the spirit and letter-of-the-law of the 14th amendment's `fair and equal protection' clause they shouldn't have. Period.
That they did and violated MY right to fair and equal protection of the law while supposedly motivated by the same do-gooder `want to help people' motivation you've revealed is presently RE-experienced as rich, though at the time I was confronted my frontal lobes were working overtime to quash an amygdala hijack a la PTSD arising from previous trauma delivered at the hands of -- you guessed it -- uniformed assholes on the payroll of a police department ... about 2 years and some change ago.
As a civilian you just haven't lived until you've had a corrupt cop pull a gun on you as he's acting on behalf of a landlord who has physically assaulted you while you're visiting a tenant supposedly having a tenant's right to guests. But that's a story for another time, if ever.

One of the two cops asked for ID. I opened my wallet, pulled out my veteran's picture ID card and presented this as per my civil responsibility to provide ID upon demand by a police officer.
Any guesses as to the response by the cop and his partner?
Was his right to request ID duly discharged and satisfied by the reception of the Federal/national ID I compliantly provided?
No.
An abuse of power ensued which resulted in my anonymity being trashed as those in the viewing audience saw ME confronted-by and associating-with uniformed police.
Can those in the audience of the histrionic/dramatic cops enacting the performance artistry of a Keystone Cops movie FORGET what they saw, or THOUGHT or suspected they saw?
Can my under-the-radar, low profile be RE-established or restored?
At least 3 members of that police force -- the two confronting me and the one on the radio back at HQ -- NOW have my NAME and face associated together their neural nets for re-use by their alleged minds.
At least 6 civilians with whom I was interacting while co-constructing a stepping stone walkway across that creek now know my surname because the dipshit officer demanding access to my ID REVEALED it, ever so politely, as he -- with his partner as backup -- addressed me in front of strangers supposedly having the same civil liberties and same rights as me.
Everyone's anonymity was preserved but mine.
Any guess as to the nature of the complaint they said they were responding to?

I was surveilled and confronted in response to a triggering call to action in the form of contact from a member of John or Jane Q. Public whose anonymity vis-a-vis me and those 6 civilians thus making me a victim of the `crime' of which I was accusatively suspected ... by overt or covert attention whores, undoubtedly motivated by brother love and a burning desire to `help people'.

Ready for another `all over the map' non-tangential thread of discourse?
George Orwell WAS a `cop' deployed in a British Colony before opting to change career path from that to authoring English prose for fun an profit. It's no mystery to me how the the term `pig' came to be used by protestors during the 1960's; George Orwell's use of the Pig as a power hungry more-equal denizen of the Animal Farm was -- I strongly suspect -- the origin of that synonym for `police officer'.

And when free-will lovers in the legislative branches define by statute `endogenous morphine' as-if a `drug' the ever so helpful and dutiful college-educated agents of the DEA will have JUST CAUSE to arrest us all.

Just a few meandering, all-over-the-map thoughts.

Cheers!
Honestly @eSp I could give two shits about you or anything you have to try to say. I was trying to figure out what the hell you were ranting about before you want to fly off on me. I know exactly where and with whom I fought side by side with unlike some immature remnant of a cum stain which you clearly are. 🖕

Cheers
 

eSp

Policy Enforcement
#54
Hey, @eSp - I'm trying to understand what occurred in the event you're describing, above - sequence-of-events-style.

Is this accurate?
.
--you went for a walk to a usual walking-spot
.
Close. For those that are `walking' centered.
I've played in creeks and rivers and prefer skipping stones, making dams, and such to `walking'.
The place I was at is just off a walking trail where it crosses over a creek ... all within an envelopping park/reservation.

--some unknown asshole called in a complaint about you - you don't know who it was, what the complaint was, or what you might have been doing to warrant it. So, spurious claim.
.
I don't know what precipitated the pair of cops approaching me.
The one doing the talking claimed that someone called in a complaint that some suspicious character might be stalking him/her//whoever.
So I don't know if the cops were using that as a pretense or it really happened.
The cops appeared for whatever reason.
When they approached me I was in the process of rounding up and transporting stones for incorporation into stone dam/walkway an ad hoc cadre of builders had been working on.

--two cops came, asked to see ID, you complied
.
I complied not once, but twice.
The first ID was a picture-and-name ID issued by the Veteran's Administration.
The previous form of that ID contained SSN and address, both which could be exploited by anyone gaining that information.
Rather than accepting that ID they asked for a driver's license, though I was not driving a motor vehicle.
The driver's license contains age, street address, and other data the cops just love to feed into their data bases.

Once my personal data was obtained, I don't know how it was used.
If some local wanted to get info on me without going through an introduction or personal exchange the cop could have been doing someone a `favor' to obtain information after giving me a cock and bull story to justify the `request' for ID.


--one of them said your name outloud (over the radio?), which revealed your name to people who had no business knowing it.
No. He addressed me in front of others within hearing distance by my surname as obtained from my ID.
He did recite my information over his radio, phone, or whatever he used.
I don't which of the others may have heard that.
I don't know if that info went out over a police band which could be picked up by a scanner.

The unknowns are many and still disturbing.

After the ID was checked and returned to me and his check on me came back clear he tried to tell me that they had watched me for a while and had seen no evidence of the claim supposedly justifying the imposition. During that wind-down banter I asserted `I'm an ink blot', to which he asked "What do you mean by that?" I told him this is a Rorschach test; others interpret and project; I can't prevent others from projecting intent, seeing me as whatever they imagine. I can only be responsible for my behavior, not how other's respond to my presence of behavior.
At that juncture they both walked away and returned to their car, where they lingered for perhaps another 10 to 15 minutes before driving away.

I went back again today. I'm not going to fall into an avoidant loop in response to assholes (re)triggering trauma.
 

eSp

Policy Enforcement
#55
Honestly @eSp I could give two shits about you or anything you have to try to say.
I pretty much picked up on that from your first reply.
You demeaned or trivialized the points mentioned as-if `all over the map'.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt as my sentence structure and complexity tends to deviate from whatever the average/typical reading level is for the general public busily tweeting and social networking.

I was trying to figure out what the hell you were ranting about before you want to fly off on me.
I was honoring the OP's mention of BOTH cPTSD as a child then adult influences resulting MST.
I used contrast with the more-adult, more virtuous `combat' PTSD which finds many of those sufferers forming their own enclaves, as many ex-military types do.
A buddy of mine who put time in the airforce as an MP has commented many times how only vets understand what it is like to serve in the military.
Personally, in my everyday life I do not flaunt or even reveal that I was ever in a branch of the military.
That buddy wears a military style camo jacket, I think mostly because he's comfortable with it for whatever reasons. I wouldn't wear a navy pea coat as it might trigger a conversation based on `service'. I tend to save those kinds of conversations for ex-military buddies and leave the civiliants to live out their lives as consumers, playing pneuatic bumble puppy, dabbling in religion, politics, and pop culture while clue-ignoring as if clueless.

I know exactly where and with whom I fought side by side with unlike some immature remnant of a cum stain which you clearly are. 🖕
There we go! Didn't that feel good?

Why did you bother responding with your first round of blather rather than await others to reply in good faith to the content?
It was a hijack and diversion, clearly.
Thanks for the banter though; it's always a pleasure to slap around around a fellow competitive military-police minded type. I was in varsity sports back in high school; I thrived on the competition.
Though my conscience is beginning to bother me.
It's pretty clear that in battle of wits where words are your only ammunition you qualify as an unarmed combatant.
There's not need for us to fight side-by-side as you're clearly incapable `fighting' as the level were information is provided and not deflected away as if an incoming round.

Meanwhile those curious or interested-in researchable references and links I provided CAN do so as I made possible by my posts.

Hang in there! It's all about YOU. Stay the course. Keep glossing over the earstwhile useful content of my posts while you use them as a carrier wave for your self-image.

Warm Fuzzies!
 

eSp

Policy Enforcement
#57
Thanks for the reply and clarifications. Good that you went back.

Do incidents like that one happen to you, often?
One could make a frequency distribution I suppose.
Though it seems that neither frequency or chonological time are factors so much as circum -- literally -- stances.
This sort of thing manifests AROUND me from time to time, contextually, circumstantially.

A year or two after Sept 11, 2001, I was in a similar setting in a park in upstate NY when a pair of NY State troopers appeared after having been contacted by a `concerned citizen'.

It was broad daylight in the middle of the park along the bank of a stream.
I got there on a bicycle; I'd apparently forgotten my panel van, ether, and duct tape.
Rather than the NYS troopers honoring my civil rights to freedom of assembly, fair and equal and protection of the laws, and freedom of speech/expression they opted to side with the paranoiacs who imagined there was something criminally untoward in my demonstrating how to skip stones to a boy and fellow visitor at that public park.
There had been no touching, no sculking off into bushes, no threatening or menacing: just close enough proximity to allow a paranoic to apperceive the theme of `stranger danger'.
As those calling for help were undoubtedly day trippers to the park they couldn't know I was a regular at that park, at the creek/stream and had demonstrated stone skipping to countless children, their parents, and grand parents.
They brought their paranoia with them and injected it into that spatial context.
Please keep this creek/stream context in mind, as I'll call on you to remember it below.

Within a year of two of that incident the local cops showed up at a swimming pool, attached the local public school, at which I was sitting in the bleachers during the break between day hours and evening hours at the local library where I prefered to hang out and use the web ... once again as a citizen vis-a-vis quadruple jeopardy to local-county-state-federal uniformed executive branch yahoos.
One or more `concerned parents' contacted their tool of choice for police-assisted harassment pursuant to maintaining their exclusive country club funded by tax dollars which one might imagine requires inclusivity of American citizery, let alone someone sitting passively in the bleachers minding his own business with a veteran's ID card in their pocket.

Perhaps 3 or 4 summers ago I was laying down along the banks of the creek at that park with my head pillowed by a tree which was also providing shade. I'd become tired from my stream-sculpting efforts which involved lifting rather hefty rocks.
Some children -- a gaggle of perhaps 6 or 7 of them -- were kicking a ball around in some sort of ad hoc soccer keep away game and it converged on my minding-my-own-business location.
One of the kids, being friendly said something to me, I responded in kind with friendly banter.
All in broad daylight, in front of god and Everyone, sans weaponry, sans duct tape, sans pannel van to abduct and absond, with everyone and his sister having a cell phone capable of capturing snap shots and streaming video.
The kids moved on and I resumed doing my own thing sans interaction with any other park visitors.
Then perhaps after a 20 to 30 minutes had lapsed a man and woman walked over from the pavilion from whence the kids originated.
The sanctimoious blather pouring out the man's festering yap included `in this day and age' ... yadda yadda yadda.
I asked them if they'd like me to contact the local sherif to come inform them of what `freedom of assembly' and `fair and equal protection of the laws' both entail and suggested that if they didn't want their precious kids talking to strangers then their kids shouldn't start conversations with strangers.
His sanctiomonious ass and his wife's fat ass waddled away back to their clique at the pavilion they had rented for the day, muttering among themselves as they departed.

To return to your question ...
So no, these incidents don't happen `to' me so much as spontaneously emerge and manifest every few years or so.

They can't happen to me per se without me participating or precipitating what emerges; though I suspect that other individuals are treated to the same sort of self-righteous abuse of power by those with more socio-impolitical power as the individuals they gang up on with assistance from `the authorities'.

And these happenings aren't always of the nature of `to' vis-a-vis me as either `for', or something more neutral; I've had children crawling all over me as if some sort of pied piper at an art show staged in a public park in '05 after I arived -- once again -- on a bicycle, though that time with a bandalaro of 20 hoolahoops and a package of tie wraps and pair of diagonal cutters in my back pocket.
Though as I was a participant in the anual art show and had been touted by a local paper as a `local artist' featured in the show the previous year, the cops didn't show up. Rather, some parents gathered around to witness the act as their children were allowed to participate in performance art. The kids helped build structures out of hoolahoops and tie wraps and carry on like children playing in a park rather than having to keep their hands to themselves at an `art' exhibition.

Now to weave in that creek/stream I asked you to remember for later.
I sculpted and played-in that creek from around '02 to 2017.
Perhaps 5 to 6 years ago a that local paper asked the public where the coolest places to hang out were.
My section of that creek came in #2 in the popularity poll, losing out only to a `river walk' costing over a million bucks and architected and built by professionals prostituting their tallents to do so.
With this as a back drop, I was sitting next to a woman friend of mine outside of the local dunkin donuts minding our own buiseness when a family van pulled up, dad exited the drivers side and proceded inside to get product.
I hear the sliding door open behind the front passanger seat, a pair of grade school kids get out, and this brother and sister pair walk up in front of me as I'm sitting on the side walk next to my woman friend and procede to smile and stare at me. Their mother's voice eminates from the passenger side window informing me, "they recognize you from the creek." So I responded with good cheer by smiling in a welcoming fashion and saying hi. The boy informed me, "My dad has pictures of your stuff on his phone as a screen saver."
My heart melted.
Sombody `got it'
Rather than to behold somebody, anybody -- me in this case -- as a THREAT worthy of the `stranger danger' response of paranoics they allowed prior sightings and attribution to SEE/behold/apperceive (performance) artistry and it's lingering after effects.

Do things happen `to' performance artists ... which we all ARE?
Or do we both let and manifest traditional, conventional patterns find us playing the part of paranoid philistine victims on The World Stage?
Over the course of my adult life I've seen us all sliding down the slippery slope into THAT abyss.

The monday before last I was at that creek where the cops showed up recently.
I was skipping stones in proximity to a pair of boys there with their home-schooling mothers ... just getting along wonderfully ... bantering with boys and mothers alike.
They left and another pair of mothers appeared with their respective broods appeared perhaps a half hour to 45 minutes later.
(note: I still wonder if the first pair contacted a member of the 2nd pair and ratted me out as `a friendly guy skipping stones down at the creek')
The same basic pattern emerged: I was skipping stones and one of the mothers asked if I would teach/show them how-to.
I complied with good cheer.
After perhaps an hour or more, that pair of mom's and their kids departed, with me and the moms exchanging first-name-only `introductions' before departing.
One of them was so exhilerated at having learned how-to after failing all previous attempts in her perhaps 35 year-old life time that she expressed exitement to get home and update her facebook page with her new skill of stone skipping.

No! These sorts of incidents/events don't happen `to' me, or `for' me, so much as they emerge and co-manifest.
It's a thematic apperception test in process.
Who is doing what with, and to, and for, whom -- and why -- are ALWAYS illusory; it takes artistry to reify what we apperceive and thusly SEEM into BEING.
We can transform ourselves into victims if we're not careful, and lack the personal integrity and mad skills to experientially-manifest otherwise.

Sorry that you asked?

Cheers!
 
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#58
Maybe if you don't want people calling the cops on you so often, it might be a good idea to stop interacting with peoples kids.

I know that men are often dæmonized and it's unfair that you are being falsely lumped in with creepy lecherous types.
I also know it's not illegal to say hello to someone in public. Just because it's illegal doesn't make it a good idea. Look at like this; just because a woman should be able to walk through a dark alley at night unmolested, doesn't mean that is what will happen. If the same woman keeps walking through the same alley night after night, being attacked each time. At what point do you have to say "just stop walking through that f*cking alley".
What should be, and how it is, are different things.

It seems to me that you are doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.
Doesn't mean you're asking for it, but at some point you're going to have to take some responsibility and choose a different path.
Which in this case means either stop interacting with kids, or start getting comfortable with the police knowing who you are. Those are the things you can change.
Society's suspicions about men around kids and police procedures for investigating calls for 'strange men around kids', are things you cannot change.

It sucks, but it is what it is. I personally want the police to be investigating every one of those calls. I don't want them saying "Meh, it's probably just that eSp guy again. Let's grab a coffee." for it later to turn out to be the day you were somewhere else, and some sicko ran off with a kid.
 
#59
Can I ask if you're in contact with a psychiatrist, eSp?

They often have galleries / artist initiatives around and can help in both being creative and just doing your thing, and when people get too scary to handle as they can't even appreciate the art you do.
 

eSp

Policy Enforcement
#60
Maybe if you don't want people calling the cops on you so often, it might be a good idea to stop interacting with peoples kids.
It never fails.
I provide the bait.
And some self-awareness-lacking sucker draws it and taste-tests it.

I -- none of us, really -- have any way of discerning -- either OUT THERE in the world at large, or IN HERE where authority figures fancying themselves `moderators', `owners', and such play acting at In loco parentis roles-- whether a presumed person (could be a bot, for all I know) was conceived via in vitro fertilization, decanted as per Brave New World, or qualifies as someone meeting the descriptor you just used without further qualifying condition ARE: `peoples kids'.

For the sake this reply I'm going to regard you a member of the set of `peoples kids' and defy your own lacking-in-self-awareness ever so sage (EG hypocritically and insufficiently SELF-aware) advice.

We are ALL `peoples kids'.
So if there was a God in heaven responsible for both `Liberty and Justice for all' and curating OUT the ugly æsthetics of hypocrisy, SHE would have caused your chin wagging jaw to freeze up UNTIL you experienced enough self-awareness to proceed.
Right?
And I mean `right' in the same moralizing tone you have started your posturing in this forum while supposedly addressing me.

I know that men are often dæmonized and it's unfair that you are being falsely lumped in with creepy lecherous types.
Shall I paraphrase in an attempt that I `get' and understand the points you were trying make?

As I've been trying to convince a 19-year old `somebody else's kid' who glommed onto last summer to use Zettlekasten to further his interests in both biology and journalism, I'm going to factor out the atomic parts of your rhetoric as I parse them:
`know',
`men'
`often/frequently'
`dæmonization'
`unfairness'
`referent to eSp'
`falsely categorically-discriminated against'
`category of discrimination used in categorical discrimination'

So your personal epistemology finds you KNOWING -- in as-if ACCEPTING way -- the unfairness of the argument you are putting forward here as if sage advice?

You're going to use one of two low-resolution categories in an attempt to separate the wheat from the chaff, the trustworthy from the untrustworthy ... whatever will unfold as I parse your prose?
If so, I'll look for signs of splitting, Aristotelian excluded-middle psychopathology passing for `logic', and other signs of psychopathology.

And you're acknowledging how one may be -- in the mind of any particular beholder qualifying as either `people' or `children of people', as a false dichotomy and distinction without a difference -- `lumped in' with those in a category used via categorical discrimination?

How'd I do so far?
Am I reading you right ... and sufficiently moralistically, righteously so ... pursuant to my attitude and behavior being shaped and transformed pursuant to making me a more righteous ink blot for presentation into the general public's Skinner Box?

I also know it's not illegal to say hello to someone in public.
Adding this to your professed knowledge base: `saying hello NOT illegal'

Just because it's illegal doesn't make it a good idea.
Or `actionable' as well as `good'.
I DO look both ways before crossing the road even though it's illegal for motorists to collide with me as a pedestrian.
And though it's illegal to have sex with a fellow citizen capable of granting consent without obtaining that consent I do eschew `consent'; it's too low a standard; I require enthusiasm.

Imperative mode, so noted.
Sir, yes, sir!

just because a woman should be able to walk through a dark alley at night unmolested, doesn't mean that is what will happen. If the same woman keeps walking through the same alley night after night, being attacked each time. At what point do you have to say "just stop walking through that f*cking alley".
But what if repitition compulsion is just too strong to resist ... and she has PTSD of the MST subspecies ... and that `dark alley' is code for `deployment' ... and as an indentued servant you consented via enlistment she can't say NO again until her endentured servatude lapses for risk of insubordination charges?

What should be, and how it is, are different things.
Are qua ARE, as you assert.
Though I'm hearing voices ... sounds like Bruce Hornsby:
Did you really think about it
Before you made the rules?'
He said, 'Son
That's just the way it is
Some things'll never change
That's just the way it is'


Sorry. Was I hallucinating there?
Or was life imitating art as Hornsby's performance artistry reflected or reflects-in-perpetuity Life and `society' as you imagine it?

It seems to me that you are doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.
Ahhh ... those loving the 12-step goose step DO love that gem of a definition for `insantity', don't they?
Though I never met one who could present a way for my triggering mechanism to discern `same thing' from `different thing' enough to be operationally useful.

How about now? Does it still `seem' to you as it did when you risked opening your mouth to preech down at me?

Doesn't mean you're asking for it, but at some point you're going to have to take some responsibility and choose a different path.
`path'?
I recounted experiences along the banks of creeks, streams, and rivers.

What `path' are YOU on?
Oh, wait, I've ignored clues.
You're looking down at me; I'm smelling horse shit.
Ahhh ... right you ARE; I'm on the briddle trail and you're on your high horse.
If I don't want to get trompled I'd better get back to the creek to obtain a skipping stone to spook your horse into bucking your condescending ass back to grounding reality.

Which in this case means either stop interacting with kids, or start getting comfortable with the police knowing who you are. Those are the things you can change.
Way too easy ... and lacking in artistry as well.

I'll endevor to change your public demenor hencheforth ... following your lead-by-example as per good-for-the-goose-good-for-the-gander reciprocity.
We can only hope that you'll enjoy the ride as much as I'm enjoying the ride your post has been taking me on.

Society?
I'll channel for Virgina Satir here, "Whose your `society'?"

Might it be the implied Deity underpinning sociology, politial science, economics, and basically all of the Anthropological aggregates?

I'll reveal my prejudicial interpretation of the term `society' when used sanctimoniously by would be authority figures, which you're play-acting as-if you either WERE an authority or had any authority over me: `society' is a place holder and fulcrum off which to leverage submission, compliance, subordination pursuant to ends of the user of the term.

... suspicions about men around kids and police procedures for investigating calls for 'strange men around kids', are things you cannot change.
You're ever so helpful to and for this particular `people's child', @Neverthesame.

Would you be so kind, generous, and loving to this child -- what's the latin term for lover-of-child -- as to present an exhaustive list of what I as a child-of-a-peoples cannot change?

Pretty please, with pious sugar platitudinous sacarine on it.

It sucks, but it is what it is.
And a rose is a rose is a rose as much as a tautology is a tautalogy is a tautology.

I personally want the police to be investigating every one of those calls.
As if `the call' the cop asserted was made WERE made?
When you allow would-be authorities to use as-if true pretenses to justify their abuse-of-power actions you passively allow a police state while you're imagining something else ... sort of like imagining that you're scolding or advising an adult who should KNOW better while you're addressing an Adult Child of ___, where ___ may be `alcoholic', `peoples'-as-used-by-_www.myptsd-com-post=1672598, or whatever else you'd care to fill in the blank.

I don't want them saying "Meh, it's probably just that eSp guy again. Let's grab a coffee." for it later to turn out to be the day you were somewhere else, and some sicko ran off with a kid.
Thank you so much for providing evidence portraying the underpinning of the very problem I've experienced and re-experienced on a recurring basis.

Sanctimoniousness and self-justifying fear are about all it takes for Fascism to take root and manifest in -- what was that term you used? -- `society'? for that `society' to manifest as Fascist.
When people -- who at once are the children of `peoples', as per your adjectival distinction, as well as qualifying as people unto themselves -- allow insufficiently grounded FEAR to as-if-virtuously shirk and/or abdicate personal responsibility while begging soothing confirmation bias of said Fear(s) by (mis)using surrogate mommies and daddies in the form of Police, a fascist police state is promoted.

Mussolini saved all this infants-cum-infantry from a gamut of big bad boogie men.
Avuncular Adolf saved his German super babies -- nieces and nephews really -- by countering their insecurities with talk of nietzschean supermen and racial -- not `ideological', no way -- 'purity' while eradicating all occurrences of the as-if `problem' in the categorical forms of Jews, gypsies, intellectuals, mental defectives (where different from intellectuals), political rivals, etc ... and old people were -- ipse dixit -- a waste of meat.

In the US of the Americas we use `A big stick' military to pander to the weak, enfeebled, infantile, fearful consumer-model citizen, who no longer is even at risk of being drafted to serve in that military, to keep the safe-within-defensible-borders non-porous to ALL threats and enemies ... well except microscopic ones which can use aluminum ladders to climb over our very own Maginot Line.

They've got their own group at this web site so they -- exclusive of me -- can talk among themselves.
There's also a men's issues group -- exclusive of me -- for men to talk among themselves.
And here I am out `scaring horses, women and children' out in this public forum ... but WHY?
I'll tell you WHY, not that you asked.
Because I and other-peoples-children of my thusly categorized ilk can't NOT have suchness attributed-to or projected-onto us as either individuals or members of the category of ALL MEN as used for categorical discrimination purposes.
If someone CLAIMS that I've scared them what crime have I commited: and how might I dispell that apperception and/or assertion?
If you either experienced, claim to, or act supposedly on behalf of another as a SJW as-if somebody experiencing FEAR is sufficient CAUSE to deny the person thusly victimized as-if the fulcra innocent, powerless other used to pull rank were a real and extant VICTIM subjected to clear and present danger THEN what can the person cast in the roll of scary boogie man, preditor, pervert or mere mortal protagonist of Kafkas `The Trial' do about it?
Nothing! Persecution without prosecution is the central theme of this scheme ... as well as guilty-until-proven-innocent.

We men each are as we seem to whomever we seem for exactly as long as we SEEM;
we can't interpret our intentions or identities on your behalf of others for you them;
these intention-loaded cookie cutter identities -- stereotypes -- are fabrications of (Y)OUR emotion-laden cognitions, prejudices, interpretation schemes, mental models, and/or categorical-discrimination schemes.

In recent decades I've seen `white men' used as a categorical fulcrum off which `people of color', feminists, and politically as-if `correct' Social Justice Workers leverage their more-virtuous group identities as they weave their normative values into a tapestry of outcomes-based shoulds as per their idealistic notions of -- what was that bullshit term you used? -- `society'.

And with the airy fairy normative shoulds in mind, a fascist police state is emerging in many of the uber alles re-ethosed `nationalist' countries of would-be rule-of-law, would-be `liberal', would-be `democracies' of `The West'

You basically just expressed a sentiment reeking of `f*ck the law' and treating men as other-peoples'-children' BECAUSE I -- I mean `society' -- want, I mean NEED, `men' relegated to positions of 2nd class citizens guilty of whatever we FEAR, or merely pretend as per our political agenda, until proven -- nay, f*ck that, make them stay at home to prevent them from abducting OTHER PEOPLES CHILDREN ... serving as proxies for sweet, innocent, entitled proxies for me/@Neverthesame -- INNOCENT until we stop FEARING all men enough to grant individual men the 1st class citizenship we as non-men leverage off their backs as we subjugate them to do our bidding UNTIL our asymptotic goals and normative outcomes are achieved ... but only we WE say so, not any of `them', we KNOW who THEY are.

Hold it, I'm audio-hallucinating again ... the voice is kinda baritone, not my wounded inner child, not my IFS `self' as CEO leveraging a 6 figure income off sub-personalities.
I'm hearing "old black Joe's still picking cotton for your ribbons and bows ... everybody knows"

Oooh gawd it's getting worse! The hallucination is getting visual; I'm seeing a Venn diagram of `Canadian', `male', `Jew', songwriter, AND Zen Monk.

This is disturbing; I think I've just experienced an emotional flashback.
Maybe I should seek out a web forum where I can address my neglected-as-a-child-by-my-PEOPLES cPTSD among fellow men and veterans without unilaterally scaring the horses, women and children who all categorically have happless victim status and are incapable of legally participating as if consent were implied?

Do you remeber that report card I started up at the top ... the one where I'd look for spliting and other psychopathogenic factors?
It's not that you suck at splitting or categorical discrimination, @Neverthesame, it's just that your splitting for fun and profit demagouges to same sort of base, churlish f*cktards Donald Trump and other so-called `populist' so-called `learders' do who (mis)employ the same false-dichotomy categorical discrimination schemes to strike resonant chords with their constintuents: Male-female, right-wrong, path-vs-other_path-yet-not-off-the-rails.

Thanks for the public spanking, @Neverthesame! {pssst ... my safe word is `ouch'}

I'm sure my mother and father as the `other peoples' whose child you just molested would both approve of your good sense and moral sensibilities.

You didn't need my consent to do that any more than I need yours to skip stones in a creek in a public park like EVERYONE ELSE on a fair-and-equal basis.

Though I do admit that it was fun having my way with you as you attempted to have your way with me. 8-P

Perhaps next time you'll start with a kiss and some foreplay?

Warm Fuzzies.
 
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