Therapist Is A Deaf Mute

[erigby]

Volumes have been written on psychological counseling and therapy. Maybe not all of the methods are ri...

It sounds like you have thought about this a lot.
Only you can decide to stay or leave.
It also sounds like it just might not be a good fit.
I hear the frustration in your words.
Personalities matter a lot.
The relationship is essential.
I hope you will consider still giving therapy a go, either continuing with her or trying with someone else.
Please keep us all posted.

 

[erigby]

Volumes have been written on psychological counseling and therapy. Maybe not all of the methods are ri...

I used to get really frustrated about shooting the breeze with no real direction too.
It drove me crazy and I would leave more frustrated than when I began.
On top of it...he is out of my insurance network so I am paying more than twice as much as I would be for someone in my network .
I already knew him in a different capacity before I ever went to him for therapy.
Don't want to get into the weeds with that one, but I suppose for me there was already some level of trust to begin with.

I think what moved me forward is the fact that I was just honest with him about where I was and how hard it was to share certain things...and he didn't freak out...in fact his response...or lack of reaction so to speak...made me feel a lot more comfortable. Like I'm not actually crazy.
The truth is...my biggest fear is freaking him out...so if I can disclose things to him and feel like he doesn't see me as a horrible, terrible, crazy person...I feel better about myself and where I am in the whole healing thing.
So for me...it was his not reacting that was helpful.
I appreciate it when my therapist can say "I care about you" but not get overly dramatic about it.
I have told him on many occasions how embarrassed I am and he always responds..."I wish you could get over that in here."
But he never pushes it. The only thing he ever pushes is my negative self talk...he always calls me out on it.
Essentially now, after 4 months of being frustrated and irritated that we weren't getting anywhere, I am starting to understand the process.
I am glad I didn't give up on it earlier. This forum has helped me process so much of it.

From what I gather...therapy really sucks for the sorts of things we are all dealing with here. It sucks because its hard and private and covers difficult things to talk about. It sucks because, at least for me, I've never really trusted anyone with any of it. The trust thing is new.
I need my therapist to be objective. I need to know it is a safe place. I tell him these things. He reminds me "this is a safe place, I hope you will come to believe that."
If he gets all emotional and reacts and gets tied up in my pain etc. he can't be objective...and then he's no different than talking to my husband or friends.
I am learning...it is a delicate balance between letting a client know you care about them and yet keeping an objective distance...otherwise we are both just wading around in my/our emotions and feelings.

I hope this helps...or at least answers the question you had for me.
It sounds like you are really working through and trying to process your frustration.
This is where it began for me.
Keep talking about it. Ignore the stuff we all say that isn't helpful. Pay attention to the things that get you thinking.

 

[joeylittle]

Just some thoughts:

One of the primary reasons a therapist won't direct early sessions is to avoid cutting off what the client might really need to talk about, regardless of the plan.

Now, I see some options here.

I wish my therapist would at least start with a template instead of sitting there shooting the breeze without any plan or direction.

Tell them exactly this. Then, participate in the conversation that ensues - try and not get defensive if they ask 'why?' Keep communicating.
Make a list of goals for treatment, bring them in, and discuss how to accomplish the list.
Prepare for therapy. My therapists first question to me for a while was 'how are you doing?' - and it's not a stupid question, specifically because identifying your mood and naming it - even rating the intensity - is a fairly tried and true way to start any session that will involve doing therapeutic work. So very quickly I got used to reflecting on how I was doing before I went in there - which led to me also developing my own ideas about what I wanted to talk about.

And then, it was my job to talk about them. I knew what my role in the room was.

One of the most frustrating things about her is she doesn't seem to register how really awful is was for me. I feel like she just can't go there. Maybe she lacks experience of the dark side, so it doesn't resonate. Or maybe she won't go there because she doesn't really want to hear it.

This is a habitual thought pattern I've seen you engage in.

Why are you more focused on the therapists reaction than your own?

And why do you assume that they either don't want to hear, or can't understand?

My sense from these two things is that your fear, anxiety, or shame around disclosure is interfering with your ability to get to the heart of the issues you want to be working on. You may need to work thru those feelings first. Or, you could challenge yourself to really just put it all on the table - including making observations like 'it looks like you (T) don't have any empathy for me, or understanding about how bad this event was. It bothers me to see you not react.'

Are any of these things possible?

 

[Dana1010]

One of the primary reasons a therapist won't direct early sessions is to avoid cutting off what the client might really need to talk about, regardless of the plan.

She didn't say that she wouldn't direct the early sessions; she said she wouldn't direct, full stop.

Tell them exactly this. Then, participate in the conversation that ensues - try and not get defensive if they ask 'why?' Keep communicating.
Make a list of goals for treatment, bring them in, and discuss how to accomplish the list.

I mentioned some things about exposure therapy and other modules to her. She seems very clueless about them.

This is a habitual thought pattern I've seen you engage in.

Habitual thought pattern? Or habitual reality pattern? The fact is that incompetence is rampant in this profession. I don't think I'm imagining it.

I can say for sure that one of my therapists could go there and did understand how awful it was for me. The problem with her, was she would try to slow me down and shut me up a lot. Might they be related? It seems the therapist who will let you say anything puts up a wall to protect themselves, and so you feel like you are not connecting. The therapist who does go there with you can only take so much before they start to push back.


If the therapist's reaction isn't important, why not just stay home and tell your story to a stuffed bear?

 

[Sideways]

Maybe you've just had some bad luck with trauma therapists.

But I've got to agree with @joeylittle that you seem to put an awful lot of stock in your T's reaction to the things you talk about in therapy. In my own experience, it's more important (and a lot more difficult) to prioritise my own feelings. I need to be able to process my trauma, and my emotions to that trauma - that's why I'm in therapy. It's actually not particularly helpful to have the T get emotional about what I'm talking about, because I'll end up using that as a guide as to how I should be feeling. The validation that you seem to be looking for needs to come from yourself, not your T. If it's painful to you, then that's what you need to deal with, regardless of how your T feels about it.

Maybe also consider slowing down. Your last T "pushed back" when you got too far ahead. Instead of interpreting that as "the T couldn't deal with it", what if that was your T trying to get you to slow down? It's not just getting the words out of our mouth, it's processing those words, and the feelings that go with them. That takes time. It's a slow process. If you've said something painful, and your T "pushes back", slow down maybe? Spend a bit more time dealing with what you've just said.

And if your new T doesn't want to rush into the traumatic stuff, again, maybe slow down? 2 months isn't very long to be already getting to the trauma, especially since you don't seem to actually trust your new T yet?

Judgements about your T being stupid? Not knowing enough? That's not helpful, and potentially very inaccurate.

Lie I said, maybe you've just been unlucky with the T you've got. Maybe you need to change. But your expectations of your T don't seem to mesh with why we talk about a trauma with a T in the first place.

Is it possible, at all, that the therapy process is incredibly painful, and focusing on all the minutiae of the way your T responds to each sentence coming out of your mouth is more about you, and your feelings and fears, than you're giving credit to? What happens if you stop analysing how your T feels, and you focus on how you feel about why you're in therapy? Just a thought.

 

[Dana1010]

It's a slow process. If you've said something painful, and your T "pushes back", slow down maybe? Spend a bit more time dealing with what you've just said.

No, I mean going in and having whole sessions wasted on small talk -- like forcing it down my throat to the point where I almost got up and walked out.

One thing I will say for my new therapist is that she at least lets me talk about whatever I want even if she doesn't seem to get it. Now that I've tried it both ways, I can say that this way is more helpful than having them constantly refuse to talk about, because "you need to stabilize before you can process, blah blah blah."

Judgements about your T being stupid? Not knowing enough? That's not helpful, and potentially very inaccurate.

If it's true, I think it's helpful to know.

As for being obsessed with their reaction, well if they don't understand what it was like, they can't ask the right questions, for one. That is important when it's pulling teeth getting yourself to talk about it at all.

 

[Sideways]

well if they don't understand what it was like, they can't ask the right questions,

Not true.

If I have brain cancer, I need a specialist who knows about brain cancer, which is not the same as a specialist who "knows what brain cancer is like".

Like I said, maybe you've just been unlucky with T's. Certainly, given how strongly you feel about your current T not being up to the task, it might be hard to salvage that relationship at this point.

You're the expert in what you've been through. That's a fact. But you're not the expert in how to treat PTSD (unless you are in fact a trauma therapist?). One talks about all the wrong things, one doesn't talk enough...

I'm not saying you're wrong. But your posts have an immense amount of hostility towards both your T's to date. I've had my share of experiences with incompetent Ts, one in particular was waaay out of her league. But it didn't bring up this amount of hostility - it just wasn't her area.

Hostility, unfair and judgmental put-downs - there's often something painful or frightening going on for the individual they come from, which has very little to do with the person that they're criticising, especially when it seems to be so disproportionate to the "wrong" they've suffered...

I'm sorry if that came across as nasty- it's not intended that way. I think maybe you started this thread for feedback on your experience, which is what I'm trying to give. And based on your posts, you haven't really said anything yet that seems to warrant the criticism you've laid on these 2 Ts. If they're not right for you, that's okay. We need to be able to build a relationship with our T based on trust, and sometimes we just don't click. But you seem to be much more angry at these Ts than seems fair - if you just don't click, there's no need for all the extra judgment going on.

Can I ask, have you ever had anyone that you could trust, who did listen, who did care? Sometimes that, all on its own, can be frightening and make us react to even just the prospect of that in a fight/flight kind of way...

 

[Dana1010]

But you seem to be much more angry at these Ts than seems fair - if you just don't click, there's no need for all the extra judgment going on.

It's not just not clicking. It's paid professionals slacking off when they know and are capable of better most of the time.

Can I ask, have you ever had anyone that you could trust, who did listen, who did care? Sometimes that, all on its own, can be frightening and make us react to even just the prospect of that in a fight/flight kind of way...

I don't understand this. Do you mean a therapist or just anyone in my life?

 

[Sideways]

It's not just not clicking. It's paid professionals slacking off when they know and are capable of better most of the time.

You're really making this impossible to follow. Are they stupid, or just slacking off?

A T isn't necessarily going to ask you the questions you want to he asked, and they usually aren't going to get emotional. Maybe being clearer in your mind about why you're going to therapy in the first place might help.

 

[Dana1010]

Are they stupid, or just slacking off?

Sometimes stupid, sometimes slacking, sometimes both, I assume.

A T isn't necessarily going to ask you the questions you want to he asked, and they usually aren't going to get emotional.

I don't want them to get "emotional," I want them to understand. And I think 15 years of psychology training and practice should equip you to at least ask the right questions when you talk to someone.

Maybe being clearer in your mind about why you're going to therapy in the first place might help.

I've had good sessions with therapists, so I know it's possible. I guess what I want is someone who connects to you as a human, not just someone sitting in an office to make a paycheck; but on the flip side someone with the knowledge and skill to understand your problems and talk about them intelligently.

 

[erigby]

@Dana1010 it seems to me you have answered your own question on this thread.
It sounds like it is time for you to find a new therapist.

I do agree with @Ragdoll Circus...your criticism, of the therapist, is getting very harsh and based on the evidence you have shared here...I would argue unwarranted.

I will say, my therapist whom I trust very much, was flat out honest in telling me there is no way he can "understand" my severe depression. He has just never been there. There is no way for anyone to "understand" another's experience if we have not had the same.
Offering sympathy, compassion, even empathy maybe...but those look very different than "understanding."

Just my two cents.
I hope you continue to seek out a therapist that is a good fit.

 

[joeylittle]

mentioned some things about Exposure therapy and other modules to her. She seems very clueless about them.

Seems. Look - mentioning things is like dropping hints. Say directly exactly what you want. The post of yours I quoted: say exactly that. You are quite clear on what you want, but the way you describe the actual interactions sounds like it's got obliqueness.

When she said she doesn't direct sessions, for example - why not ask, "why not"? It's your time. Nothing is off limits.

As for being obsessed with their reaction, well if they don't understand what it was like, they can't ask the right questions, for one. That is important when it's pulling teeth getting yourself to talk about it at al

Ok - this is another thing you can actually tell her. I've said this to mine, on days when it's very hard to talk about it. I tell him that he's got to prompt me to continue, ask questions - because in my silence, I'm not weighing whether or not to share it, I'm shut down and can't get past it.

Once you tell a therapist what you think you need - either they are willing, or they will challenge. If they challenge, engage. Ask why. Communicate and find the solution. That's not compromise, it's collaboration.

I guess what I want is someone who connects to you as a human, not just someone sitting in an office to make a paycheck; but on the flip side someone with the knowledge and skill to understand your problems and talk about them intelligently.

This - this is so clear. Tell this to your therapist.

I understand the frustration - I really do. I still have days when I'm pissed that I seem to be doing more to analyze myself, than he is contributing his take in things.

But I also know: if I say, "I'm analyzing it on my own right now and I might look like I know myself and am making sense, but I'm really just giving you the 'right' answers. Help. " - he'll step in and shift the mode.

I am not saying every therapist is amazing. Not at all. What I'm saying is, you've been working really hard at finding a therapist who will give you what you think you need. You're so tenacious with it - I admire that enormously.

There's no reason you can't follow through as directly as you can, here.

Hell - next session should be all about what you want in therapy, what you think is happening, what she thinks is happening. Get to the meat of it. Ask questions. Don't assume. Be interested in the answers.

You only stand to gain from this.