News This Was Too Close!!!!

[RussH]

one of the president canidates (I think Clinton) wants complete gun control (per my dad, i havent been up on the canidates so far).

This is always the answer of the liberal politicians.
The one thing to keep in mind of the various mass shootings in this country; they have all happened at places where guns are outlawed, and with very few exceptions, the perpetrators could not legally own guns anyway. So additional gun laws would not work.

 

[Anarchy]

A link to a blog post which plots out gun ownership rates and "murders" by shooting for united state states and for countries
http://predragrajsic.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/does-more-guns-mean-more-gun-violence.html

There have been other graphical representations in the past which have shown a significant trend when the data is presented for countries, however even for the year or years for which the relationship was statistically significant, the relationship was not robust, simply removing two countries;

Irish Republic; miniscule population, low gun ownership and low homicide/murder figure,
and the united state, with largish population, largish gun ownership rate and middling to highish homicide rate,

and the relationship ceased to be significant.

 

[Ice_Fire]

Im suprised it was Pulse and not Disney

I've come to this late because I've been off grid all weekend. But from what I've seen on the news I'm not surprised it wasn't Disney at all. Disney was not the target, nor were the general piblic, lgbt people were.

It's beginning to read more primarily as an act against gay men

Agreed. The links to ISIS are, as Owen Jones rightly said on Sky news tonight, a personal rationalisation and justification by a homophobe for commiting an act of terror against gay people because he personally found it "repulsive". Ideology used to justify the unjustifiable. It doesn't seem to be organised terrorism (at this point in time), rather a depraved homophobic asshole who had easy access to a gun, using that to carry out something to ease his distaste at something (gay relationships). Selfish, childish and enabled by the ease of access to guns in the US.

I don't think gun control would have done a thing. If you really want to walk into a room and kill or wound mass numbers of people, you will find a wa

I disagree. And I disagree with @Anarchy, despite your well articulated arguments. In the uk, a law-abiding person never thinks about guns. It just isn't something you think about because there are no shootings like this (or at least they are extremely rare). The reason? Fewer guns on the street. Unregistered ones may be ten a penny but they're not actually used to the extent that they seem to be in the states. You can't walk into a gun shop and buy ammo without a license. And there are nowhere near the number of gun shops in the first place. You can't buy or import weapons online, they won't get through the postal or courier system. You can only get a gun without a license if you're already involved with criminal gangs and have the contacts. So it's leg work for these idiots who maybe fantasise about commiting these attacks. Leg work that they either haven't the resources or brains for. If someone does have the drive to do it, then of course, they'll find a way. But for the vast majority of bigoted nut-jobs? It forever remains a fantasy because it's difficukt to get the plan off the ground. And the more difficult it is, the better. You may not stop all attacks, but you will stop some and slow down the frequency of the rest (ie the successful attacks) if the weapons are harder to get hold of.

Anyone in the US can get a gun and it's not a big deal. But here, the only people who have guns are hardcore criminals, and people who've undergone the licensing process. And the military, but those weapons are so closely controlled that they're a negligible factor as far as guns circulating in the country goes.

 

[Chimera]

Imo
Ya'll are turning this into an pro/anti gun platform.
That's seriously sad at this moment...

 

[joeylittle]

It's such a knee-jerk response in America to do so. I agree, it's not the issue here. The shooter in this tragedy would have gotten a gun because he had a plan for it, regardless of the gun laws.

 

[mary1979]

Hugs to all our American ptsders who I'm sure would have to be shaken up by this badly, thinking of you all.

Now the gun debate again right?
Which will only result in everyone feeling offended and pissed off and nothing will change anyway.

Just throwing my own offensive opinion in for the heck of it.
The problem is American culture.
That whole Rambo, most powerful country in the word, must prove it by means of brutal force and must be the biggest and most sensational attitude is what is and will keep getting Americans killed in droves.

My heart goes out the LGBT community as well, I will never understand homophobia and its narrow-minded self absorbed view of the world :(

 

[Ice_Fire]

I don't see how it's sad that the debate turning into a pro/anti gun access debate?

The attack was homophobic. A senseless attack on a group of innocent people by a terrorist, regardless of whether he was a lone wolf terrorist, or had connections to IS.

Yes, a tosser like that if committed enough to his messed up "cause" would have found another way. But it was made far easier by the current accessibility of firearms. So, naturally, the debate must turn to scrutinising that ease of access?

I'm not saying that banning guns will magically cure this problem, just that it seems to me that the attack was made easier due to the ease of access to firearms. And so, making it harder for people to gain access to firearms seems one way of reducing the number of these senseless acts. It would be a knee-jerk reaction if this happened once in a blue moon, but it happens more frequently in the places where firearms access is easier than it is in other countries. Different attacks for different reasons by different stupid people. The common factor? The perpetrators could all access high power weapons without much trouble.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Im not as 'on edge' about terrorist stuff now so talking about it helped a bit.

Gun control or not, UK vs US on gun control or not I honestly could care less about. I am on the fense about gun control myself, I cant legally get a gun, I personally hate them but for protection if someone broke into, say one of my family member's houses, if them or the criminal were to get shot, Id want them to have it for protection if they want and for the criminal to get shot instead of my family member.

My best friend when i was 18 (ex neighbor became best friend old enough to be my mom) has one and she is a very responsible gun owner.

I own a pitbull and a tazor and that is good enough for me. Whether there would be less crime with stricter gun laws, doubtful in my opinion but just my opinion, no way to know until you do it. The "right" politions in place and the US might see it one day. If it were up to the people to a vote, i would love to see how that turned out.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Ya'll are turning this into an pro/anti gun platform.

The shooter in this tragedy would have gotten a gun because he had a plan for it, regardless of the gun laws.

Agreed on both counts.

 

[Justmehere]

I find it really interesting that after the Paris attacks, so many in the US changed their FB profile photos to the French flag. After this attack? It's a fierce debate. So many are pointing fingers at so many people other than the perpetrator. So many are trying to blame someone. It doesn't seem like we pause very long to mourn the dead.

It reminds me of how a family reacts to a trauma toward some of their members. Healthy families unite together and support the victims. Unhealthy families fall apart and bicker under the stress. We are seeing the same thing on a national scale.

United we stand, divided we fall.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Holy hell! I got in the car to come home from work, 105.1 had this on this morning and is still on air tonight without music, god bless that radio station! They've been given updates all day but when I came home they were taking calls from people. Hearing "my best friend died...my brother died...my graduation party was supposed to be this weekend but we changed it". They had one guy on there that said he couldnt go on without his partner and they talked him into calling a suicide hotline but before hand really 'loved' on him and then got to hear about how the community is pulling together....it was too much and i bawled my eyes out the entire 8.5 mile drive home. And i dont cry (not sure how long i can convince myself that i dont cry). Wow. Not sure what all of it was about. I feel for the people and families very much but i think a lot of that was my fear too.

I came home to a father talking about ISIS and how the guy had to be part of it cause he said he was (i can say im a cow and it doesnt make me a cow) and how we need to go to war with ISIS (i do agree with that) but wont with this President (i agree with that too)...but i finally told my dad to shut up. Wasnt a nice thing to say but well over due!

 

[Justmehere]

:hug: @lostforgottensoul