'too Traumatized' For Cbt - Anyone Else Relate?

[NovemberStar]

I find it impossible to do any of the healthy coping skills because they all contain these triggering concepts and then I revert to the things you have mentioned .

I very very much relate. I finally have hope that it won't always be like this though now my Dr explained the likely reason. Can't express how happy I do feel after she said that - something just 'clicked'! You are not alone in what you feel about this stuff - as I said, I very much relate!!!! It has del so lonely when it seems 'everyone' else can do that stuff and have peace or success with it, and I cannot even hear the words associated with any of it. But my Dr gave me hope - if its because I am too traumatized yet - it means that with further work I too might get to a place where I can use some of those things and find them helpful, not harmful.

There is hope for people like us ;)

 

[Jane.l]

@november star thanks you made me smile .

 

[Lucycat]

Do you mind me asking what your key trauma was / is?

Not at all. I suffered years of sexual abuse as a child by my father. I have been diagnosed with CPTSD.

I just find it very disappointing - if I am reading you right - that you have been in therapy for 20 years without being able to even start processing your trauma. Even your current therapist is not being entirely honest if he is claiming eye contact is a prerequisite for EMDR. If you do a quick search on this forum you will see numerous people that have done it with tapping or headphones. Eye movement is one way, certainly, but it is not the only way, and eye movement and eye contact are not the same thing anyway.

It makes me sad that trauma therapy is not progressing - as a discipline - as fast as it could. The knowledge is out there, with increasing amounts of evidence as to what works and what does not. Yet here you are - yet another one - saying that so far nothing is helping you.

I just hope that your faith in this therapist is justified and you get the recovery that you deserve.

 

[Hashi]

I have no idea why your doctor suggested thinking of nature to explain mindfulness. I've never thought of nature. I think using other people's ideas can be very problematic, it's better to identify our own.

I can only say that you have to find what works for you. There will be something that does. And you don't have to use a word for it that you don't like. You've mentioned walking for instance, and rhythmic movement.

There are various approaches that can help with trauma, not only CBT and EMDR. I'd also recommend reading "Healing the Tiger".

I'm not clear what you're going to be doing with your therapist, but I hope it will be useful and helpful.

 

[NovemberStar]

It makes me sad that trauma therapy is not progressing - as a discipline - as fast as it could. The knowledge is out there, with increasing amounts of evidence as to what works and what does not. Yet here you are - yet another one - saying that so far nothing is helping you.

The problem I've had with PTSD treatment is it wasn't recognized I had PTSD for many years. I had previously been diagnosed as BPD - which I always knew was wrong diagnosis. It has only been formally recognized in the past 3 years, and even then, my PTSD has - until last July - only ever been very intermittent - I probably didn't even have the symptoms 'long enough' to warrant an official PTSD diagnosis, even though it was clear my childhood trauma had greatly affected me.

I'd start to have symptoms (dissociation, suicidal thoughts and feelings, some flashbacks, and often following a crisis of some sort, the symptoms would 'go underground', and not emerge for a few months again. I honestly believe that was because it simply wasn't 'safe' enough for me to experience the distressing symptoms - my mind has a very strong desire to protect me, and it's only been since July last year that I've been having the symptoms long enough to begin to work through them. Hope that makes sense.

No, my Dr did not say I had to make eye contact. Nor did my T. What I know of EDMR is you need to be able to look up at your T or at pen, or similar - my problem as I explained above - I can't even look up at her shoes most of the time.

Treatment for PTSD isn't widely available where I live. There is no specialized treatment branch; I began working with a psychologist last August who has trained in helping people deal with trauma, but to find clinicians specifically trained and specialized in treating PTSD where I live is very very difficult as they just don't exist. The public hospital services have an Anxiety Clinic - but they do not treat those with PTSD - they will only treat or see those with social phobia's or OCD. and even then, it is a 6 month waiting list for the most urgent cases.

What makes it all even more frustrating is that there is a DESPERATE need in my city - 3 and a half years ago our city began to be rocked by several very large and destructive earthquakes - including a fatal one that killed nearly 200 people. It was that fatal quake that triggered the beginning of the last 3 years of hell. The quakes - the violent, unpredictable nature of them, as well as living in total fear 24/7 that the next shake would be another fatal one, killing me, or my family, or leaving any one of us trapped in collapsing buildings, triggered many childhood memories of living with that same fear of 'what next' and 'will I die'.

It took most of 2 whole years before the ground didn't shake most days of the week, day or night. I know I probably have PTSD from the quakes too, but its not the most pressing trauma issue I face right now.

It makes me so angry that there is no specialized help where I live - especially given the statistic of as many as 10-20% of any population that has gone through a natural disaster, will develop varying degrees of PTSD - that is tens of thousands of people in a city the size of mine.

 

[NovemberStar]

I have no idea why your doctor suggested thinking of nature to explain mindfulness. I've never thought of nature. I think using other people's ideas can be very problematic, it's better to identify our own..

She was using it as an example - I had to interrupt the minute she started down that path. I know there are many approaches - I just don't have the tolerance for any of them right now. I spend so much of my day avoiding EVERYTHING. My 'comfort zone' is so small, I only ever feel a little bit ok when I'm on my computer, watching tube videos's, while reading something else online at the same time.

I'm so afraid of being triggered, because my original trauma experience was of a time where I was so completely overwhelmed, alone, and unable to cope - to the point of wanting to die; I fear being triggered and having those exact same feelings again, and having - again, no one to turn too.

The fear of 'not being able to cope and having absolutely NO ONE to turn to' is compounded by very bad experiences with using - trying to use - emergency psych services where I live. Last year I was very suicidal, had a plan, wanted to die, but also wanted to at least TRY to reach out. It took me 2 days to pick up the courage to phone for help. And their response was awful - they wouldn't let me come in and see someone face to face - they made me wait 5 hours before they finally let me see someone. And even then, they just sent me home, with no follow up, no support, no telephone calls, NOTHING. They said 'here is our card, phone us if you feel unsafe' - I said 'I feel unsafe now!' and all they had to say was 'we can appreciate that'. I had an 'urgent' assessment appointment with them in another 3 weeks so they told me I just had to go home and wait until that appointment.

Bottom line - I can't afford to let myself get to the point of feeling suicidal and unable to cope with the distress of the PTSD - because I feel there is no safety net at all. Hence why I work SO hard to AVOID any possible triggers to anything. Not that that works for very long of course ;(

With my T, a lot of the past few months have been all about keeping me alive - my eating disorder was very severe last year, and we haven't been able to begin any trauma processing because the priority was getting me help for my anorexia, and then it was a 2 week hospital admission, re-feeding, gaining weight, and getting back to work; and keeping me safe while all of that happened. The treatment for my eating disorder did not include ANy form of therapy - the eating disorder service 'don't deal with trauma' so they couldn't help me at all for that. The psych service however, didn't deal with eating disorders, so they couldn't help me with that; much of the past few months have been me being shuffled back and forth between two services who argued the other was best to deal with me. In the end, neither were of any real help. But i'm so glad I have my T. I think now we will be able to begin to work on the trauma.

 

[joeylittle]

This caught my eye:

The only thing I find keep the PTSD manageable is sedatives to make me sleep and / or my eating disorder. Severe restricting keeps the PTSD away - bingeing and purging is the only real 'relaxing' thing I have found that completely 'relaxes' me.

And made me wonder: have you tried plain old garden variety exercise? Now, before you throw a shoe at me - I used to be bulimic, and what I remember is just being physically exhausted after a binge/purge. So, I wonder if you aren't so much relaxing as you are discovering that expending energy relaxes you; that's what you're getting out of that behavior.

If so, you could definitely expend energy more productively and safely.

I also notice a lot of "I can't tolerate" in your language - and I want to say, first: I understand and am sorry. And second, you will need to become comfortable with the action of allowing discomfort in a structured therapeutic environment, if you are to progress.

My thoughts are really with you.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Challenging your thoughts is triggering. Accepting your thoughts is triggering. What exactly do you do with your thoughts?!? Do you let them run you over like a freight train?

I think you may need exposure therapy FOR therapy. Therapy triggers you and you run. This reinforces the negative effect. You're not going to wake up one day and suddenly be ok with therapy. Therapy isn't supposed to be easy. To be honest, it downright sucks. But, if you want to heal, you find a way through it.

It seems you're in a negative feedback loop and until you're willing to work through it, the same looping will continue. I think you pick out one single concept of a therapy (mindfulness) and use it to throw away every concept within that therapy. Mindfulness may not work for you right now, but why can't you work on either challenging or accepting your thoughts? To be honest, I use ACT all the time but never the mindfulness part. Baby with the bath water, I'm thinking?

And not being able to tolerate anything? I don't think you're necessarily a worse case of PTSD, rather not engaging in activities that will help you. You give in to the anxiety rather than push through it.

Allowing extreme discomfort is something you need to face rather than run away from. One of my therapists had me repeat this... "In this moment I feel ____. I haven't always felt this way, and it too shall pass."

I'm also concerned that you are sedating yourself so much and still self harming (yes, eating disorders are a form of self harm)

 

[Lucycat]

What I know of EDMR is you need to be able to look up at your T or at pen, or similar - my problem as I explained above - I can't even look up at her shoes most of the time.

What I know of EMDR as I also *tried* to explain above is that you do not need to use your eyes at all. You could do it blind, or with your eyes shut. It is about bilateral brain stimulation. This can be auditory -with sounds, or tapping on knees ( for example) or with hand held vibrating devices. Yes, it is confusing to call it Eye Movement Desensitisation and Reprocessing if eyes are not needed, but that is because it was first developed using eyes but has progressed from there.

 

[Lucycat]

I also notice a lot of "I can't tolerate" in your language - and I want to say, first: I understand and am sorry. And second, you will need to become comfortable with the action of allowing discomfort in a structured therapeutic environment, if you are to progress.

I like this. My psychiatrist described the Window of Tolerance to me. I need to stay in the window to function and to be able to tolerate therapy. However, the window can and does change. What I can tolerate one day may be less than I can tolerate tomorrow. I can be outside of my Comfort Zone, but still within the Window of Tolerance. Uncomfortable but tolerable. The more that you do this, by gentle controlled challenges the bigger the Window of Tolerance becomes - and life gets easier.

 

[HopeFirst]

I completely understand what you are saying. I have a really tough time with "mindfulness" or relaxation. It's almost as if being centered and calm creates a free pipeline for the memories and feelings to flow through. Keeping busy, or being distracted or blocking things out--feels better. I tried EMDR and it really didn't work for me. I think I am too traumatized, to wound up. I look at it this way--our minds protect us. It's as if we have a darkened shade lowered on our psyches--so we can be comfortable and not overwhelmed. Mindfulness, meditation and other EMDR-type therapies destroy that shade and bring in very bright sunlight. That's just not appropriate for all of us. And that's ok. Sometimes, raising that shade a bit--little by little--is more therapeutic and kinder. I totally get this. You are not alone! ((hugs))

 

[NovemberStar]

I'm really not looking to be 'fixed' by this post. I appreciate many want to suggest things and make suggestions that I ought to or could try x y z.

I was just wanting to know if anyone else had the same difficulties with challenging thoughts and / or being super prone to begin very triggered. I guess so I feel less alone and 'freakish'.

I am very well ware of the fact therapy is not meant to be easy. I know I need to increase my tolerance in order to progress - that is not new information. It is where I am right now, and I have been making progress, and I am learning more and more about why it is my thinking / thoughts are, how they relate to the PTSD, and increasing my level of trust in my T.

Interesting to know EMDR can be done with my eyes closed - I will ask my T about that.

I've been struggling with this on and off for years and years, yet in many ways I feel I am only really at the beginning. A lot of the time I am still in denial that I really do have PTSD, that some of my childhood experiences were 'that bad' and that I was 'traumatized' as a result. It's like I have spent years saying 'I have PTSD' 'my childhood was pretty bad' but not really truly accepting or acknowledging that it really HAS impacted my life and this - how I am with PTSD for today - is the result. Every now and again it 'hits' me -I allow a window of really truly believing it.