Treading Dangerously?!

[Nicolette]

Okay, I am now about to brace myself for an onslaught of defensive and probably attacking comments so here goes nothing.........

This post does not have a 'best fit' forum (discussed with Anthony) and as it concerns what I read in this area so here it is........

I think I know a reasonable amount about PTSD, I have lived with it for 5 1/2 years now and not with just Anthony. I also have had the shoe on the other foot so I believe I am not being unrealistic with what I say.

I read threads about members on here with cancer struggles, surgical, relationship, legal and financial matters (which are testing to a normal healthy person) and watch these people with admiration as they fight through adversity with PTSD.

Conversely I read threads like 'goal for the day' and wonder will some people ever get beyond where they are at? Are they striving to make something better for themselves or are they enabling their own limitations?

No offense but when I read goals like getting out of bed, cooking a meal and hanging out washing I have to sit back and bite my tongue. I am not talking about when these are once in a blue moon goals when having had a bad bout of PTSD, or being in the uncontrolled phase of PTSD, nor the irregular times when PTSD just bites you. I am talking when you are generally in a 'stable' stage of dealing with PTSD and life is not throwing sh*t at you. It is when I read posts, from people who have a good grip on what is wrong with them and knowing what they need to do to manage themselves, that I just sit and wonder how many sufferers out there stagnate and don't go beyond pushing themselves to do basic tasks. I know of exposure therapy and trying to overcome obstacles but a goal of relaxing is something that someone like I should have, working 13 hour days 6 days as week and barely having any time for me, not a goal for someone who does barely more than a basic level of living (dare I say existing) in the first instance and has very little stress to deal with if any. I also wonder how many supporters enable this mentality by not encouraging their sufferer to raise the bar ever so slightly.

Actually, I'm not scared to ask........do some of you actually put yourself in the third person and read your own posts? This is not aimed at anyone but seriously, setting a goal to relax, or have a meal when you are already doing little more than climbing out of bed isn't really healing is it? Are some of you your own worst enemy? Are your supporters limiting you by accepting that this is the best you will ever be or become? Do you ever want more than a little from life?

 

[amethist]

I never looked at it like that Nicolette, but fully agree with everything you have said.

I post in goal for the day, usually about the things I need to do once the major stuff has been done.

Doing all the legal paper work for hubby's compensation claim can take me days, yet I see it as a must, and my goals fit in a round that.

 

[Red Feather]

Well in the last months, there were times when I barely moved and barely fed myself. So in those times, I think it a very great accomplishment to cook a warm meal for myself. It is just a matter of seeing activities in relevance to the meaning it has in one person's situation in comparison to anothers.

I love Tracey Chapman's song "First try." I think the question I would want to reply with, would be, who is to judge what is truly valuable in life? Meaningless tasks can gain huge meaning if they are done with a feeling of self-worth and accomplishment. It is like taking a step to be loving towards the self, and taking care of basic needs that would ensure continuation of life.

 

[Nicolette]

Thank you for seeing what I was trying to highlight Amethist.

I post in goal for the day, usually about the things I need to do once the major stuff has been done.

Doing all the legal paper work for hubby's compensation claim can take me days, yet I see it as a must, and my goals fit in a round that.

Your situation is like the exceptions I am talking about - you are dealing with a huge weight, the stress it has on your sufferer, and days of time required to deal with all the legal issues so I see a goal as such as spending some relaxing time with your grandchildren as great.

If you had PTSD, had nothing going on, didn't work and just stayed at home and your goal was to mop the floors I can only assume that this is a stretch without any pressure. It just confuses me as to why someone would let this become their only way of life by setting it as their ongoing 'goal'. I get it if that was a starting goal and then the goal progressed to doing a little more each month, week (depending on the situation) but I see the same goals over and over and wonder what that must be like. Maybe being a survivor has made me want for more and maybe my question is based on my perception of life. This is why I am asking as I struggle to comprehend the 'stagnation'. There are members here who have been here as long as I have and are still at the same position and I have seen others come, learn, grow and leave as I have seen my own husband progress. So what defines the difference as I can't see it as only being the illness all of the time?

 

[intothelight]

There seems to be several points here, so I am going to break them down.

When reading some posts, there is an element of "stagnation" that seems present with some members. Basically that is true, regardless of what forum they are posting in. It seems like Groundhog Day where someone is stuck and just doesn't move. But then there could be several reasons, and I tend not to put too much weight on it as not everyone provides a full picture of their circumstances and their use of a particular part of the Forum may be different than mine.

For example, in the thread "Goal For The Day", I see people using it as a "to do" list. I took it as a goal of trying to get organized, even though it may not have been stated that way. For those that list things like basic hygiene, I just assume they are in a really depressed state where even getting out of bed is an accomplishment.

As far as a supporter enabling their sufferer, a lot of people that appear to be stagnant are more likely not to have a good support system. It seems they do not have the encouragement to push their limits and are very isolated. For those that do have a supporter, I think the term enabling would apply in some cases.

Finally, I think the biggest difference is personality and response. I find that at the bottom of PTSD, the biggest thing is "fear" and how each person responds to that fear. Depending on the person, they are going to go into fight, flight, or freeze mode. It is what an individual does to confront those fear(s) and/or responses that determines their progress or lack there of. But this journey is never linear, and cycles are a better description. Progress can be seen in shorter cycles with longer spaces in between.

For me, I will read and encourage where I can without judgement. I don't have the full picture and will try to give the benefit of the doubt. Some people just don't communicate as well as others so we don't get the "rest of the story" so to speak. But enabling is something to steer clear of, and sometimes there is a fine line when trying to respond. In that case, I just steer clear.

JMHO

Deb

 

[piratelady]

I agree with some of the other comments. I assume for others, as it is true for myself at times, that some are going through a difficult period of depression and getting out of bed, cooking a meal, etc is a big deal. That being said, it is true that once you have managed to do that you have to move on to doing more, growing, getting back into life, etc.

I know for me, if I get very depressed I have to start with one small goal, like cooking a meal. The feeling of achieving that will be sort of a stepping stone to doing something else until I am back into life. If I do not have more support and am left to my own devices, it takes several small steps to get up n at 'em again. Personally, it is when I feel so stressed that I may snap, that I prefer someone to say, "Suck it up buttercup, get back out there and do your best!" rather than coddling and enabling. It is when I am pushed that I can get through it faster and feel stronger. Others may not take well to that though. We are all so different...

Also, just as Deb points out, not everyone paints a clear and complete picture of what is going on in their life. They could be going through more than we are aware of and not have a lot of support, so it will take a lot of small steps to see a big change. For me, it is when there is an outside source pushing me that I can just get right up and go. I have trouble doing that for myself.

A lot of people on here (including myself) don't know what approach would work for someone and so they stick with the safe bet: Gentle encouraging and telling them it's ok, they're doing their best, etc. I don't want to say the wrong thing, I assume it is the same for others. You don't know if telling them to suck it up and get back out there would be well received or would hurt them.

All of this could also be me talking out of my...well...you know. :) And as always, I hope it makes sense.

 

[cherryblossom]

I understand what you are saying Nicolette.

I think a big part of this is

I get it if that was a starting goal and then the goal progressed to doing a little more each month, week (depending on the situation).

I see nothing wrong with 'getting out of bed and having a shower' as a goal for the day, if you have been completely unable to do this for some time. But everyone needs to keep the momentum going by adding new challenges daily/weekly.

I see you as very high functioning, and a determined person. Not everyone has the same drive and determination as you. Also, everyone's situation is different. Some have responsibilities which means they simply have to go shopping for food, or do the washing for their family, or go to work to pay the bills. Some have no responsibilities at all, and only have to answer to themselves. I also do agree with you, that some sufferers probably do have supporters who enable them, by doing everything for them.

Different life situations can either be a blessing or a curse, and can 'kill or cure'. I'm on my own, if I don't go to work, no one else is going to pay my mortgage or my bills. If I don't mend the fence, get the car serviced, clean the house, do the washing etc, no one else is going to do it for me. So I have no choice but to get off my backside and do what needs to be done. That is quite a pressure, on top of PTSD. If I don't do something, I don't have anyone nagging me. If I don't wash up for 3 days, that's my look out. But on the flip side I don't get any encouragement, support, or praise either.

At the end of the day, with or without a supporter, every sufferer has to want to get better for themselves. They have to set their own goals and keep moving forwards.

Small goals are the way forward, but every small goal has to be added to daily, weekly and monthly for long term success and management.

I know myself, for a very long time, I wanted to be 'better', but I wasn't prepared to put the hard work in (mainly due to fear and ignorance).

There have been times when my goal was to get out of bed. Other times when I've challenged myself to cook a meal. And although now that seems quite small and insignificant, at the time, they were huge steps.

It is sad that there are people who have been here for years, and haven't moved forward. I don't think they are necessarily failing, I just think their circumstances and experiences might not be right for them moving forward right now. I spent so many years battling, and trying, yet actually going nowhere for one reason or another.

At the end of the day, if struggling members are still here, posting goals and reading forum posts, then they haven't given up. They are still engaging and peer support can only help.

 

[Lionheart]

I have been here for a few years and hopefully I have progressed. I think I have. PTSD/Major Depressive Disorder is disabling for me and is complicated by physical symptoms of CFS/ME, Fibromyalgia, etc., I'd like to see myself leaving this site in the future, but for now I feel this is where I need to be.

Sometimes my progress has been very slow, but other times I think I am healing by leaps and bounds, (at least this is my hope). My "t" says I am already doing everything possible, but I know there are still more things I can do to improve my quality of life and one goal I have is to go back to work again, (although it looks as though it may not be soon and so I haven't posted this as a goal).

Sometimes my goal is to break out of isolation, to maintain a positive frame of mind, to reduce stress in my life..(I don't work but I still have stress in my life). Other times I have smaller goals like motivating myself to take a walk/exercise, or just to relax because I have been anxious about things and I tend to be a worry wart. These small goals are actually big goals for me because my physical health is hinging on my psychological well-being.

Perhaps motivation is a problem for some people, like it can be for me at times and they have to start with the basics of getting out of bed and taking the next step forward....however great or small that goal may seem to others. I know depression can make tying your shoes into a difficult task when it is not being successfully treated.

I don't know why some people get stuck and stagnate, perhaps they feel overwhelmed, I dunno, but I think we all get stuck in a rut from time to time. I can understand how it's disconcerting to see others not moving forward or living up to what we believe their full potential is, but I am led to a question my "t" once asked me and that is, "How do you know for a fact that they are not already doing the best they can?" With all due respect, I guess I wonder that too. Whose timetable for healing should they be on? I am healing from severe prolonged child abuse and it is taking me a long time to get well, but it takes however long it takes and I do not see it as a reflection of my willingness to work hard at healing myself and changing my life as I am totally dedicated to my healing path.

Just my humble 2 cents,
peace,
Lion

 

[p-no]

I also think that some people stay "circling" because it feels, and sometimes really is, safer for them in their very circumstances. Sometimes we find ourselves in circumstances that are all bad, in the sense that there is literally no support and literally no action can be taken. That does happen. Sometimes all you can do is "circle", like a plane that does not have enough gas left for flying to another airport but instead needs to fly around a bit until landing is possible and safe.

I do hear you though, and I think that you have reason for perceiving what you have.

Long time ago, in the book that is titled "The Courage to Heal" by Laura Davis I read that women who had participated in her workshops had referred to it rather as "The Carriage to Hell". I have sometimes found my own process of healing to be "chemo therapy for the soul" (the way I had perceived the effects (good and bad) of chemo therapy to be for people fighting cancer around me). Sometimes it feels, and sometimes it is, not safe enough to take action.

 

[The Albatross]

Personally... at my worst, I had stopped any self care, eating or drinking anything other than booze, and was actively isolating in my home sleeping days and being up all night (I abandoned my relationship with my husband and avoided him in as much as I was able). I was chronically malnourished and deyhdrated. Everything I do in recovery is in contrast or compared to that low, worst point, reality.

As things have improved, and my life has gotten busier, I find the first thing to fly out the window, is boundary setting, the ability to say no, and my self care. Doing for myself the things I need to do for a sense of peace, calm or nurturing self acceptance. The thread in question for me, along with some others, like the grateful/thankful threads and such... allow me to pause, and to retrieve something my base nature doesn't normally focus on. The practice of that becomes a habit and the habit becomes a new behavior. It is giving myself permission to stop the fight/freeze tug of war... and learn some self regulation to avoid the worst of the pitfalls of the PTSD and my own depressive aspects. Self care things, are self nurture things, life affirming things... very simple and inexpensive things I can do for myself that are often tactile and involves all 5 senses. It helps me manage my mood better and become calmer as I consciously set about initiating and sustaining life changes.

I can't presume by the posts here that I know what is going on in the day to day lives of anyone here, surely I would not be comfortable deciding who among us may be stagnant or not. What purpose does it serve unsolicited anyways? Unless someone posts a question... that flicker of a thought is perceptual and basically useless anyways. So I tend to try to accept what is written on a post by post basis and not spend too many brain cells on it unless someone seems to want feedback, an opinion, or asks a question.

 

[Lucycat]

A really good thread which has hit a nerve.

My nephew has Autism, so nothing to do with PTSD but I hope you'll see where I am coming from. Last week his Mum told me that the psychologist keeps asking her what her expected 'outcome' is. She said she keeps telling the psychologist that her aim is to 'get her son help'. 'But,' she said 'he (the psyche) just doesn't seem to "get it" '

I looked at her and said 'Get help TO DO WHAT?' She just looked at me blankly. So, I continued; ' If he were my son, I would think an appropriate objective would be that in the future he can live independently' Sadly her immediate reply was 'well, that's never going to happen!'

My nephew is 13 and can wash himself, feed himself, communicate in simple terms. I have every hope that he will live a happy life entirely able to contribute in society. He already expresses insight into his difficulties and I think that tells a lot and gives much reason to be optimistic.

So, I guess what I am saying is that in my opinion little goals are fine so long as they are steps towards the bigger ultimate goal. The ultimate goal needs to be identified clearly or the steps lead to nowhere...

 

[The Albatross]

I can agree that goal setting is part of a solid strategy for recovery... but not everyone is at the place they need to be in. This is (as far as I can discern) a mutual aid forum not a "recovery forum" because there is a wealth of experiences shared to be had but no actual threads practicing or sharing experiences with Anthony's view of improvements. (Which I would surely like to see because so many of the things that Anthony expresses in his articles I agree with or have benefited from).

Progress for some, is just registering to a support forum, and getting out of bed. Progress for others is learning open mindedness and being willing to read and maybe get some ideas and hope for their own recovery in as much as they are able. Progress for still others... well you see what I mean.

I do think though Lucycat, that your are right in saying, "little goals are fine as long as they are steps toward the bigger ultimate goal." But goal setting (short term, medium, and long term goals) was a skill in itself that took me a couple years to learn and practice.