Two Weeks On Bupropion (zyban/u.s. Wellbutrin) Plus Pristiq

[ihateusernames]

@Flossy : both my doctor and therapist say that typically things will continue to improve until about the 6 month mark, and that after 6 months you're about as good as you're going to get on the bupropion. I'm not taking anything else so I don't know about any other medications. Maybe a dosage increase would help, too. Since it's the only medication I take I'm on 300mg/day.

I'm about to start a new psychologist for the anxiety. I think that bad thinking is my biggest problem in that area and that there might be some kind of behavioral change that would help more than medication will.

 

[Flossy]

@ihateusernames Thank you so much. That is exactly the kind of detail I needed to hear. I can work with that.

I will increase the dose after another couple of weeks and then reduce the Pristiq to see if that helps. All these plans before feel I have got it sorted with meds. I am pretty sure the Pristiq works on my sadness because when I reduce the dose most times, I cry a lot.

I have had lots of therapy too. I am no longer sure about psychs and their ability to change our thinking.

For me at least, I am starting to beleive I am more of a "proof" kind of person. I need pleasant or joyful distractions to reduce the anxiety. Proof that there is positivity in the world and I can have it in my life. I do not tend to beleive it when someone tells me to change my thoughts. I like tangible proof and distraction seems to provide that for me. It's constant effort, but so is therapy.

I guess what I am saying is that I do not believe my thoughts or trust my thoughts even when someone tells me how to change them.
What I think works for me better is the experience and proof that joy and pleasant things exist in the world and I can turn to them.

I can't trust my brain to think properly as it does all sorts of weird things from PTSD so I am not willing to trust it when someone else tells me how to make it think.

There is also a program/app called Cognitive Bias Modifiication that I am going to start practising. Google those words and a doc called Michael Mosely who did a program on it.

Thank you so much for your response. I really appreciate it.

 

[Nam]

@Flossy I feel good. When I went from 300 to 450, I had a period of false euphoria. It lasted less than a week. I was slightly disappointed that I couldn't stay there, but logically I knew I had to care. During the euphoria, I simply didn't care if it was bad and only cared if it was good, because it was in sync with what I was feeling.

I certainly have hopes for the future. I plan for them. Even when I'm sad and terribly anxious, I don't think that dying will help. I used to think that being dead would be better. Maybe because there was an end? I'm not sure. I would suggest that you talk to your doctor about upping your dosage. I do think that it can be better than where you are at.

Keep in mind that drugs only offer one dimension of your care. Eating well, sleeping well, having purpose and exercising all play a role in keeping ourselves well and as "happy" as expected.

 

[Chava]

I am not really ruminating about the future. but still asking if I am all right and if this is as good as it gets?

I put the dose up 4 days ago to 100mg. So I am on 100mg of Pristiq and 100 of Zyban.

Is it too much to ask to feel "good".

First, bupropion was not a good fit for me, but I'm very glad if it's helping you. For most of us, I think the best we can ask for is a more manageable state, so we can stop getting in our own way so much or going backwards. It sounds like you are hoping to get happiness and good feelings from your medication. Even if that happens, I promise you it won't last. Also, 20 days is nothing. Or is your trauma a sort of mild event that you think you can heal from with a pill? Or maybe chemical-imbalance depression is your only issue?

If you are asking for bupropion to make you happy, you might be disappointed. If you are hoping it can help you manage to the point you can directly find more ways to enjoy your life or good feelings, that seems like a pretty good fit.

Therapy will not make you have in a short period of time either, but longterm it's much better than what a medication can offer me. I'm only adding that for others who read this post and your view that therapy can't necessarily be trusted. Nothing can really. We have to do a lot of work, aside from our meds and our therapy, and it can simply be a long process. And even if we recover, total constant happiness is pretty unlikely. It sounds like you are hoping for a total spiritual overhaul from a medication...just how I read it. But again, excellent if it is a helpful medication on some level. It was not designed to cure PTSD. But it can help some people through daily living.

 

[Flossy]

@Nam Thank you. I guess that feeling sad etc is a part of what a normal human feels and we dont realise at first that this is what we will have to learn to deal with. PS Today I have my very first personal training session to exercise.

I agree with putting up the dose and my doc will support that I know.

@Chava I appreciate your input and you make valid points, thank you. You have made strong statements to posts that assume a lot. Assume what I have not done and what I expect. These assumptions come quickly from a few words that form a question I am asking.

Sentences structured in this way are not helpful and are almost insulting to a person who has suffered and worked hard in all areas that are necessary. None of us know the effort each other makes and to assume less efffort is insulting and an extreme way of communicating that can be part of the dysfunctional thinking of PTSD.

For example: "Or is your trauma a sort of mild event that you think you can heal from with a pill? Or maybe chemical-imbalance depression is your only issue?" ..and.. " it sounds like you are hoping for a total spiritual overhaul from a medication".

I ask you to refrain from writing extreme statements like that in reply to my questions. Tone it back to a point where the judgement is taken out and that will make it more helpful, more kind and more true without assumptions of what you know about my circumstances.

Assuming can be a destructive habit in life and can also cause hurt and distress to the person you are speaking to.

Please try to ask for clarification, rather than make a statement that assumes knowledge on your part.

Asking for clarification in a question form is a much healthier way to communicate for both parties and allows for more open communication.

The importance of asking for clarification is the most important thing I learned from this forum over five years ago from Anthony and have used it as a tool which now takes a lot of the conflict out of my life and allows me to understand other people's needs better.
It also encourages the positive trait of empathy.

 

[Chava]

Okay, so are you hoping these pills make you happy?

 

[Flossy]

Go back to the questions I asked.

I was specifically addressing people who are taking Buproption.

1. "Why can't we tell if we are feeling better or not?"

2. " Is it too much to ask to feel good".

I was gathering information to gauge the effects of this med.

I never said anything about expecting to be happy.

To answer your question. No. I am not expecting this pill to make me happy. That is ridiculous and insulting to my intelligence.

 

[joeylittle]

" Is it too much to ask to feel good".

I would read this as a desire to feel good, and it's easy to make a short step (not a leap) from feel good to happy, I think.

I went through a similar set of questions after a medication started working for me. My therapist asked me something that helped - which was, "can you tell me what it would be like for you to feel the way you want? How would it 'show up' in your life?"

I think figuring out what 'good' feels like, when we just don't have a baseline, is hard. The question my therapist asked me, above, really helped me start to shape what the answer might be. I'm sharing it, if it helps.

 

[Flossy]

I would read this as a desire to feel good, and it's easy to make a short step (not a leap) from feel...

I think that is a great guideline. It does help me, thank you. I can now start to build on exactly what that would look like for me.

(A therapist asked me the same thing once in relation to marriage) What would a good marriage for me look like.

This is when I find writing with chalk on the wall helps me a lot. I can see it as I go about my day and add or subtract to the list until it feels perfect and then I can use that as my baseline.

I resond to words, so having baseline set out in words somewhere I can see it every day will be a huge help.

 

[Chava]

I feel good, not happy yet

Is it too much to ask to feel "good".

Is that as good as it gets?

It just sounds like you're waiting for the pill to make you feel happy or "good." No pill has worked that way for me, or if it did it was for a short time (wherein I was very excited and then let down because it wasn't real happiness or real good feelings). Sorry if you felt insulted. I'm just trying to interpret your writing.

I have also felt a bit relaxed lately and that is easy to confuse with feeling tired.

1. "Why can't we tell if we are feeling better or not?"

This probably has a lot to do with understanding ourselves and not losing touch with our range of feelings. If I can't feel the bad feelings (numbness) I have no gauge for what is "better". My numbness prevented all range of feelings and also contributed to a lot of confusion when I tried to feel. Still does. It just sounds like you want to feel "good" feelings but aren't really allowing yourself to feel because you don't want the bad feelings. Unfortunately they all go together. Any med or drug that helps tip us towards only feeling the good feelings is only working on an initial response that will burn out and we'll have to practice feeling all feelings (medicated or not), increase the dosage, try something new, or go back to numbness.

2. " Is it too much to ask to feel good".

No. But it's not a quick thing for most of us. It also doesn't usually come from medication but our involvement in life (and perhaps how a med buffers or helps that). Also, if you don't allow yourself to feel any feelings, you cannot feel good...you will have to expect it from a pill (not sure, but I relate to confusing "relaxed" with "tired" and also not being able to gauge where I am feeling-wise... to me it suggests general numbness or disconnection from feelings). Good feelings have to ultimately be allowed and created internally, in the same space that allows for sadness and all of it. I tolerate even good feelings only in small bits, probably for this reason. All of my feelings are deeply internal and connected to me, so they all scare me. if I can "feel" good, I can feel sad. So I'm going slow on feeling, so I'm not overwhelmed (therapist is helping me with this process). But anytime I was able to get just all good (and no sad) I was actually chasing a disconnected reality or ready to crash. The real good seems to open space for the real sad. I want to just be more even through all of it. Just my experience.

 

[Chava]

I think figuring out what 'good' feels like, when we just don't have a baseline, is hard.

very true...again, the scary prospect of opening to any feeling or touching some weird void we haven't investigated....

And does Good = Calm? Peace? Euphoria? Simply doing daily life? Absence of bad feelings? What is your goal?

 

[Born to Run]

I tend to believe more and more that in countries in which therapies are focused on behaviour and thinking this may lead to people using more meds, or meds only. I find that a tragedy. Ptsd is not a thinking disease, but a biological disease at the root. If you would try a different method of therapy, you may well be able to flush the meds. You do come across as naive to me as well, and of course nobody knows what lies in each others past, but lecturing Chava in the attitude you chose was not necessary. The use of the word 'maybe' does not suggest assuming, but opening up a discussion. At least that is how I interpret this word.