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News Us politics - read first post before comment

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And they *are* violent racists
I was actually talking about the people that the statues are OF, not the ones doing what they like to call protesting.

I'm not apologizing for Nazis, or the KKK, or the "alt right", or any variation on theme of white supremacy. They're wrong and they're dangerous, as far as I'm concerned.

The point I was trying to make is that we aren't going to find a peaceful resolution to this by demonizing each other. I'm a "Yankee". At least, to someone from the former Confederacy I am. (To me, a "Yankee" is from New England, and I'm not, but, whatever.) When I lived in north FL for 2 years, I was surprised to find that there's a noticeable group of people who are still fighting that long over war. I'm not going to get them to stop by calling them jackasses. I got the feeling that, even though they were spouting racism sometimes, that wasn't their main point. Their main point amounted more to hurt feelings. I think Lincoln was on the right track, regarding reconstruction, and we'd have been in a better place had he lived. But, this is some of the history that needs to be taught. You don't reunite a country by rubbing the noses of the "losers" in their loss.

Something that's really made me aware of this demonizing stuff has followed the whole "Black lives matter" thing and discussions around it. Black lives DO matter, let me be clear about that. And racism exists and it's wrong. But, as a white person, I get tired of the idea that I will ALWAYS be a racist, no matter what I say or do, and "everything" will always be my fault. I honestly don't think that's 100% true. And, when it gets set up so that no matter what I do or say, I'm always, by definition "Wrong", where does that get us? (Hint: My mom did that and I skipped her funeral.) Even when you think a person is wrong, if you actually want to change their thinking and/or behavior, you have to give them a way to get it right. You just DO. Now, it's entirely possible to not CARE about changing people's hearts and minds. Then all you want is a good fight. If that's what you want, have at it and demonize, don't bother to listen. Listening doesn't mean you agree. It means you're respecting someone enough to hear them out. And that makes them more likely to do the same. If you can engage someone in a conversation, you might find their position isn't as entrenched as it seemed, and maybe they'll even be open to the possibility of listening to YOU.

I've been feeling that particular way, when listening to conversations about race, for awhile. In no small part because I didn't actually have ancestors IN this country until after the Civil War. No slave owners in my pedigree, I don't think, but probably an indentured servant or two. And, yet, I'm to blame, there's nothing I can do about it and anything I might say or do isn't worth listening too. (I'll admit to prejudices, but I really don't think any of them are race based. Not that anyone actually cares about that.)The other day, it dawned on me that there are probably a bunch of southerners who are feeling somewhat the same way. Those statues, for the most part, WERE put up during the Jim Crow era (which was, at least in part, a reaction to the way Reconstruction was handled). I think, as art, they could be in museums somewhere and that would be fine. But, in the process of taking them down, I think it would be good to show a measure of respect for the feelings of those folks who's pride in the south is about more than racism. Because, for a lot of them, I think it IS about more than that. But, when you call someone a racist, maybe there's a point where they decide they may as well go for it, because that's what they'll get called no matter what. Maybe, once the name calling starts, regardless of who starts it, the other side is highly likely to retaliate.

I think, in the case of the statues, if it was done in a less high handed way, there'd be less people fighting it. There are going to be SOME people fighting it, no matter what, because there are some people, probably on both sides of this, that aren't looking for resolution, they're looking for a fight. There's not much you can do about them, but you sure don't have to add to their numbers by disrespecting their neighbors. Before you just decide to call me a racist and tell me I'm wrong, imagine how you'd feel if some sort of majority decided to tell you that your heritage didn't matter. That amounts to saying that YOU don't matter. (Try to look at this as if you didn't have self esteem issues, etc, because that screws it up completely.) How would you feel? (Yep, just like the Native Americans.) It might make you feel good to call people names and paint them all with the same broad brush, but it won't make things better. It's more complicated than that. We need an approach much like what Desmond Tutu, Nelson Mandela, & co. came up with in South Africa. That was brilliant. And I'm sure it was hard. And it probably hasn't worked perfectly, but it was an awesome idea.
 
I was actually talking about the people that the statues are OF, not the ones doing what they like to call protesting.
Apologies @scout86. I somehow managed to only read the second half of your post and feel like a jerk (though relieved that I misunderstood!!)

An apology also @Tornadic Thoughts. I deleted the post as I failed to consider the effect it might have on people who have or do struggle with emotional eating.
 
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Not to worry @ShikibuZ , misunderstandings happen. (I'm glad it was a misunderstanding! :)) Anyway, it gave me an excuse to go on about some stuff that's been bothering me.

The news that Bannon is out was the best thing I heard this week. There are a couple more I'd REALLY like to see go. Near as I can tell, Trump's only real agenda is to "make awesome deals" and blow his own horn. As much as I dislike him, and as annoying as that is, I can live with it if I have to. He doesn't have the same kind of political agenda that a lot of people in politics do. He's erratic, has a short attention span, I think we can outlast him. Bannon, on the other hand, appears to have an agenda & he's pretty committed to it. And it's an agenda I don't at all like. So, I'm glad he's not around to influence The Trump. That guy can come up with enough really bad ideas all on his own, he doesn't need help.
 
Thanks for your thoughtfulness, @ShikibuZ . I'm okay with seeing it, I just see it very differently now in what she's encouraging and demonstrating. I see and feel the agony behind each ingredient that goes into the cake and grilled cheese (although who knows....it may be all vegan and gluten-free stuff), along with the inability to stop shoving stuff like that in my face depending on my mood. With the level of what I came to know within myself as being a major form of self-hate via my fork, albeit a very tasty one, it's hard to hear her other messages in my head space when presented in that manner. It's like listening to the teacher from the old Charlie Brown cartoons. lol
 
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