Volatile Avoidance // Fight&flight

[Friday]

I'm trying to parse this, because it's making life really hard right now.

There are certain things that even the thought of them, much less the actuality, provoke an instantaneous

No! f*ck no!

0-100, lightning through every cell in my body, full on fight/flight response... In order to avoid something???

The stressor? Isn't actually there. If it were there? It wouldn't provoke this kind of response. Similar, but nowhere near as sudden, violent, or reactionary.

A whole lot of shit can spiral out from there, other symptoms always ramp up when I kick into fight/flight, but the cause all of that; is the instantaneous, outright, full on refusal & avoidance of XYZ. It's completely irrational. XYZ is a stressor, sure, but it doesn't rate this kind of no holds barred reaction. And it's seriously pissing me off.

Anyone else do this? Tips, tricks, advice?

 

[rosey]

I know exactly what you mean @Friday i have a massive flight response that has me literally running out of rooms if someone or thing is in the way then i dont trust that i wouldnt hurt them to escape. The problem is that you dont often know that the flight mode is in action until it is done with. Like you it spirals and have said and done some pretty stupid stuff after. It is case of working on calming your nervous system down there is no quick fix believe me i have waste years looking for one.

Mindfulness and meditation are very helpful to me but taken best part of a year to be comfortable with them.

 

[Lola Nocheprieta]

I'm trying to parse this, because it's making life really hard right now.

There are certain things that...

@Friday, I think I know what you mean, but I want to be sure. Are you saying the stressor is a thought (originating internally) and/or a suggestion (from someone else?), rather than the physical XYZ? And is your distress due to (among many other things, I'm sure) wondering why the f*ck would the thought of something be worse than the thing itself, why such an intense f*ck No! response?

 

[Friday]

Are you saying the stressor is a thought (originating internally) and/or a suggestion (from someone else?), rather than the physical XYZ?

Yes & No. I'm explaining this badly, I think.

The one that's driving me spare is asking for/accepting help... Of, or in the vicinity of... anyone who wears or has ever worn a uniform. Prior service, active duty, any branch, any country.

So there's a military piece. & An admitting weakness piece. But the sum is greater than all the parts. I can ask for help. I can admit weakness. I can be around vets. Ish. Sorta. Sometimes. Add those 3 things together? (Or any other component I'm not seeing?) And Bam! the only things that make sense are getting in the next flight to anywhere, or shredding someone.

>>> So the actual stressor is the military piece. Asking for help is just something I suck at, and admitting weakness goes against my <everything>. Those 2 aren't stressors. But the F/F response isn't coming from actually doing any of those things. It's the idea of doing all of them together. Like dropping mentos in a coke.

There are a few other things that trip the same kind of nuclear avoidance, but this is the one that's really getting in my way right now.

And is your distress due to (among many other things, I'm sure) wondering why the f*ck would the thought of something be worse

Nope! That's just an added irritation. :wtf: Because I've been trying to find a workaround, trying to break it down and come at it from different angles, for the past couple years, but... No dice.

 

[Sandstone]

I'm not completely sure I understand. I think you are saying that thinking about asking for help from anyone in uniform is enough to set off a fight/flight response, and that it is actually worse to think about it that to do it?

Whether the problem is thought or action, it sounds like a candidate for graduated exposure. But I'm sure you will already have considered or tried that.

Can you explain more about why it is making life so hard now? Do you actually need to be helped by a uniformed service? Or is it something that has built and built so it is taking over your mind, just in case you need to do it?

 

[Ronin]

It's the idea of doing all of them together. Like dropping mentos in a coke.

What about working with it as a thought, and piece by piece, not all together, until it ceases to be a stressor - or to this depth?

Eventually, can you switch the what to me sounds as phobia-based into something tangible, and dealable with physically? Asking a figurine dressed in an uniform for help for quite a time, something that meets the other criteria - is person-y enough, but is not the actual darn thing you are so not fine with - aka actual people, so not the same threat?

Grab the minutiae and sum of details that f*ck you up, turn the fragments into a different whole, sort of thing?

 

[Ronin]

Or eventually, different end of that response, doing the flight-fight in some way and persuading yourself when you do, nothing catastrophic happens? Catch the lion by its tail and sweep the trauma floor with it, kinda thing?

 

[Lola Nocheprieta]

I know exactly what you mean

So, how do you calm down a nervous system that goes from 0-100, @rosey? Seriously. How do you slow down life quickly enough so you can get to the point of knowing you have to take just one step back and breathe, tell yourself to breathe, etc. before you go nuclear or to paraphrase @Friday, go like a whole roll of mentor in a bottle of coke...

The last time this happened to me, about 2 weeks ago, before I knew it I had self-harmed. Like, I never knew what people who express their anger outward instead of inward meant by the phrase "I saw red." Before I had a chance to breathe, count to 10, go get the damn coping box, before I had the chance to blink, I self-harmed. I ended the text to my mother then whacked myself upside the head half a dozen times with the damn fool cell phone.

Admit it. It's kind of funny. Much better than the more deliberate s/h I have done.

Aaaanyway ... I agree with @rosie, that mindfulness meditation (any kind meditation), and also breathing retraining, other breathing exercises help to calm the NS, but it takes time and doesn't always work when you need it!

So I'm with @Friday ... Need some specific tips, tricks & strategies. What could I have done in that millisecond after registering such anger, hurt and frustration with my mom but before I hit myself? The only thing I can think of is if I was wearing my rubber band, maybe I would have remembered to snap it several times rather than hurt myself, and that would have literally snapped me out of it. Other thoughts are: hold an ice cube and the dive response, but again, I'd have to stop and think coherently to go do that.

Like dropping mentos in a coke.

Haven't done that in decades, or even thought about it, ha!

 

[Lola Nocheprieta]

Yes & No. I'm explaining this badly, I think.

The one that's driving me spare is asking for/accepting h...

It sounds like you are doing your own, internal exposure therapy, deliberately triggering yourself when you see uniformed service members. Alternatively, is this a safety behavior, making yourself imagine going up and asking for help whenever you see the uniform? And if so, despite the intense pain and general f*ckery it's causing, what purpose does it serve?

 

[sedna]

@Friday I could be wrong, but I feel like I know exactly what you mean. My reactions when I have that experience are at lightening speed also.

I think that having something be stuck in my head is more of a threat than an actual situation I have to physically engage in to deal with.

So I defend myself in situations that havent happened yet to the point of actually being on the offensive.

I feel the stressor, a lightning flash of f*ck No and then go on the offensive. There's never even a seconds pause in that. I'm having imaginary arguments in my head, when they arent even there or they're just walking by. I have a really irrational reaction to cops, the higher up the food chain in law the easier it gets. I have to circle around them and see their strengths and weaknesses to feel in control, but I'm exposed to them a lot. I have no regular contact with cops and probation dept.

I dont know your history, if you have one with military people. I have no real reason to react to the police the way I do. I think its the idea that they may be out of control and I cant do anything about it. The uniform and gun symbolizes that and puts me on edge.

This isnt helpful to you, but if I even manage to ask for help with something like that, I'll then spend the entire therapy session arguing about why I dont need the help after all. I think realistically these type of things are helped by CBT. That sounds like something that would piss me off though. If you can be open to it I bet it would help.

 

[rosey]

Haven't done that in decades, or even thought about it, ha!

Completely agree @Lola Nocheprieta meditation and mindfulness do not alway work unfortunately. It is a on going daily thing to calm life in general in hope that it steadys life so episodes happen less often.

As for calming the nervous system when you are on complete crisis it is a matter of finding the best way for you problem is recalling it when you need too. You can shock your system into going into "divers brain" where by you trick your brain into starting the process of shutting down all but esssential. Get under a freezing shower fully clothed even with shoes on. It confuses your mind and then sends signals that you are going into hypothermic state where breathing is all you need. After 3 minutes you wont think. This is medically proven. It does work.

 

[Lola Nocheprieta]

Completely agree @Lola Nocheprieta meditation and mindfulness do not alway work unfort...

Thanks, @rosey. It is a daily practice, isn't it, trying to keep the nervous system reasonably balanced. When I'm home, I use TIPP skills, especially tipping the temperature by squeezing an ice cube or by envoking the dive response by plunging my face into ice cold water and holding for 30 seconds. It's great when I remember it and have access and privacy! Unfortunately, in the incident that I relate, it was late at night and I was at work (typical.) No possibility for a full-on dunking. I wish I had remembered my gel eye mask in the staff refrigerator. It was only after I whacked myself, cried my eyes out, vomited into my waste basket, and burst the capillaries around my eyes (causing quite attractive petechial hemorrhaging) that I remembered. I tell people it's for migraines, but it's really to play with temperature sensations when I need to distract my mind from extreme stress at work. At least it felt very soothing afterward!