What Are You Feeling Today? Not Thinking, Rather Feeling! Can You Identify Yours?

[ms spock]

Depressed
Unworthy
Inadequate
Doubtful
Guilty

My mom is at it again.

No matter what I do, it's never enough and the attacks begin. My T has advised me to delete her voicemails without listening to them. I find that very hard to do. Emailed and the called my step dad to ask him to please let her know that I will not be returning her calls.

Why do I feel so crappy about keeping the boundaries that are healthy for me? Why do I feel like a snake for not "being there" to support her. I mean I did call, just to provide emotional support, and she hammered me. Now I feel guilty, like a crappy daughter for not returning her calls.

This is a really hard bind to be in.

When we start to change the family dynamic the members of your family in it will try and push you back in to the place you have been in. So not only do you do the hard work of changing, you have to deal with people in your network either consciously or unconsciously sabotaging your growth.

You are changing and starting to not be your mother's mother, the family scapegoat or whatever the dynamic is - if you change then it means you are not carrying everyone's crap you are giving it back to your family. If they were able to deal with their crap then they wouldn't have dumped it on you in the first place. So they are often keen to see you slip back.

Sometimes even people who love you and support will do this because change can be scary.

You mother is keen for you not to change - however you are changing - so she is trying to draw you back in.

How you deal with the guilt? I honestly don't know. Maybe some CBT or talking to someone who can reassure you that it is okay not to be your mother's punching bag or garbage bin.

If you can delete the voice mails without listening to them that would be great. But all these new behaviours take a lot of practice.

I am still on my L's on so many things.

ms spock

 

[ms spock]

At least I got the experience of feeling what it was like to not be found by any of them for 3 months...that's something. It was such a peaceful feeling.

What a success Philippa!

You spent three months free of them!

Wow that is really great!

 

[ms spock]

Yes, you're right. I am way too hard on myself. it's the biggest challenge I've had to face to learn to be kind and gentle with myself...I just don't know how to do this.

I've never done it before, so there's no reason why it should come easily to me. I guess I needed someone to let me know it's ok to not do it right the first time. For some reason I think I have to be able to. The perfectionist in me is surfacing I think

With family, I've known them my whole life, and I'm 36...so it's understandable that it's really difficult to break away for good from them. They aren't interested in changing or curbing their behavior, so it's the only option I can see to prevent any more damage from being done.

It is a really big, huge thing. I need to stop and just really appreciate this as well.

Thankyou so much for your kind and encouraging words. It's really helped me to slow down and not feel so much angst about it.

You are doing really well. It is very hard. I think a lot of what we are doing is a type of intergenerational change. We are building pathways for those that come after us. Because I went through the whole getting the family out of my life stuff I can have some insight in to some of the issues you are having. One day you will pass this on to someone else. You may think (like I am thinking) Wow this Phillippa is really brave. This is a tough one! I have also thought "Wow I was pretty brave to do all that stuff!"

It isn't easy and you managed 3 months for your first practice separation. That is impressive to me.

Slowing down and not feeling angst about it can help us to become clearer on ways to protect ourselves from our families.

 

[ms spock]

I think in society we are taught (and women get this more than men do), that we have to always be taking care of someone else, to be considered 'good' in someone elses eyes, or else we risk their disapproval.

This notion of having to be selfless is what has done so much damage to the psyche of women, and left them self-neglecting and neglected by others as well.

I feel like this is a huge problem for me.

I am self neglecting and neglected by others.

 

[ms spock]

I feel like I will never get it together.

 

[caliaviator]

I think in society we are taught (and women get this more than men do), that we have to always be taking care of someone else, to be considered 'good' in someone elses eyes, or else we risk their disapproval.

This notion of having to be selfless is what has done so much damage to the psyche of women, and left them self-neglecting and neglected by others as well.

I suppose selflessness differs from culture to culture, and from country to country. I'm not sure what it's like in Australia, but here where I live (California, U.S.) everyone here always wants to be accommodated, and I see more often than not that everyone feels they are entitled to something. It's always "what's in it for me?" or "I need to look out for my own needs or else someone will take advantage of me" over here. I'm the type of person that would go out of my way to help people, or contact people, and I rarely receive it in return from my friends or family. I think it's also because they don't want to be vulnerable, and helping someone puts them in that state of vulnerability.

An important thing I'm trying to learn is knowing when to give, and when not to give. Some people will certainly make us feel like we need to give because they feel like they are entitled to receiving something that they may not of necessarily earned it. But one thing that we have not been taught as a kid was learning when to say "no". I think it has less to do with gender and more about consequences of when we do say "no". When we said no we would often be punished, which means as adults we are less inclined to say "no". This feeling also makes us feel compelled to give because we fear the consequences.

Relationships are a good example of this. From my own experience I felt compelled to do things because I wanted love in return. I'd take pictures of myself (I hate taking pictures) for my last girlfriend and when I didn't she'd be less inclined to do stuff for me. Or I would have to initiate the conversation first or else there would be a dead silence. I'm sure many people can relate when they felt the need to do something, but that feeling always comes when we feel like we're putting out more than we receive, and sometimes we need to learn how to say "no".

I think this problem is experienced by both genders, since my friends typically feel like they have to do more than they receive. So I respectfully disagree that women feel more compelled to do this than men due to society, due to the fact that the personalities that demand from us can be found on both sides.

 

[ms spock]

Relationships are a good example of this. From my own experience I felt compelled to do things because I wanted love in return. I'd take pictures of myself (I hate taking pictures) for my last girlfriend and when I didn't she'd be less inclined to do stuff for me. Or I would have to initiate the conversation first or else there would be a dead silence. I'm sure many people can relate when they felt the need to do something, but that feeling always comes when we feel like we're putting out more than we receive, and sometimes we need to learn how to say "no".

I think this problem is experienced by both genders, since my friends typically feel like they have to do more than they receive. So I respectfully disagree that women feel more compelled to do this than men due to society, due to the fact that the personalities that demand from us can be found on both sides.

I left a relationship earlier this year that was like that.

It is interesting to read a male perspective. Thanks for the input. It must be hard for you guys as well.

As a woman I feel like I have been trained to be a servant - my brother never had to do the stuff I did. However there is also your perspective and I have learnt from you today.

ms spock

 

[caliaviator]

There's a video in youtube that explains it better than I can. I tried to embed it but it wants me to subscribe. It's "she's too good for everyone". It really does a good job explaining what guys go through lol.

 

[ms spock]

There's a video in youtube that explains it better than I can. I tried to embed it but it wants me to subscribe. It's "she's too good for everyone". It really does a good job explaining what guys go through lol.

In Australia we don't take very good care of our men at all in terms of mental health and also providing proper contained rituals for rites of passage.

I appreciate you communicating with me around this - because I really don't know what guys go through.

I think we could all join together and sing

"Not me..."

Ah Well

ms spock

 

[caliaviator]

I'll sing with ya! Sure I'll be nervous and I have a court order telling me not to sing anymore but hell it'll be worth it :)

The funny thing is that when I feel like crap about the world while I'm driving I'll sing to some music playing on my MP3 player. Actually kind of makes me feel better about all the crap going on in the world. Then again I'll take peace and relaxation anywhere I can get it, because it sure as hell doesn't come often enough.

 

[Philippa]

I suppose selflessness differs from culture to culture, and from country to country. I'm not sure what it's like in Australia, but here where I live (California, U.S.) everyone here always wants to be accommodated, and I see more often than not that everyone feels they are entitled to something. It's always "what's in it for me?" or "I need to look out for my own needs or else someone will take advantage of me" over here. I'm the type of person that would go out of my way to help people, or contact people, and I rarely receive it in return from my friends or family. I think it's also because they don't want to be vulnerable, and helping someone puts them in that state of vulnerability.

I think that goes on here as well, though I do my best to surround myself with people who aren't like this...I don't have many friends though;) I've had people in the past that I have made the effort with, who never returned it, and people who expected me to take care of them and treat me like shit when I would put up boundaries and not give into them too. Now I'm a little more wary about who I do extend myself to, especially if they make no effort.

Narcisissm seems to be the norm these days, and everyone is out for themselves, but there are some people who aren't like that..who see through that and behave in the opposite way. They aren't the majority though.

An important thing I'm trying to learn is knowing when to give, and when not to give. Some people will certainly make us feel like we need to give because they feel like they are entitled to receiving something that they may not of necessarily earned it. But one thing that we have not been taught as a kid was learning when to say "no". I think it has less to do with gender and more about consequences of when we do say "no". When we said no we would often be punished, which means as adults we are less inclined to say "no". This feeling also makes us feel compelled to give because we fear the consequences.

Yes, I went through this a few years ago. It was a huge learning curve for me, and I am still improving, though it has become easier than it once was. You're right about not being able to say "no" not having anything to do with gender...I mainly was talking about how women are generally in the role of caretaker of everyone, but you are right, it happens with men as well.

Relationships are a good example of this. From my own experience I felt compelled to do things because I wanted love in return. I'd take pictures of myself (I hate taking pictures) for my last girlfriend and when I didn't she'd be less inclined to do stuff for me. Or I would have to initiate the conversation first or else there would be a dead silence. I'm sure many people can relate when they felt the need to do something, but that feeling always comes when we feel like we're putting out more than we receive, and sometimes we need to learn how to say "no".

Yes, these are good examples. It's a pity that people feel they need to get something before they can give anything and withdraw from a person when they are being given something they are used to getting.

I think this problem is experienced by both genders, since my friends typically feel like they have to do more than they receive. So I respectfully disagree that women feel more compelled to do this than men due to society, due to the fact that the personalities that demand from us can be found on both sides.

You may be right. I guess I have grown up hearing women talk about it more than men, which doesn't mean that it doesn't happen for them to, just that perhaps they are more willing to express it or complain about it to me.

 

[Philippa]

In Australia we don't take very good care of our men at all in terms of mental health and also providing proper contained rituals for rites of passage.

I appreciate you communicating with me around this - because I really don't know what guys go through.

Me either.