What Is Sex For?

[BloomInWinter]

I'm trying to enter that 'space' that I never got to where I would have been able to 'discover' what I liked through trial and error, with someone else discovering the same thing.

...all in a lighthearted, 'let's see what is fun' approach. It's the only thing I can think to do now...to ban thinking and try to stay in the realm of just going with what 'feels' good and then validating statements in my head as the abusers try to intrude.

But I've had a major setback that is just finally breaking through. The past year, I didn't realize it, but there was a major transferrance occcuring onto my poor hubby.

I think that is what caused my therapy to blow up a few weeks ago in the T. room.

Makes me sick to think about but now I can face that there's too much transferrance going on to pretend it's not happening anymore.

It is helping me to go with the assumption now that my hubby isn't making ANY 'mistakes' just trying to discover what works for us both. Any of the rage and other dreck I feel in response to his efforts are really, sadly, have been the feelings of the abuse of the past, or of my lack of setting good boundaries.

Things are much better, once I explained where some of it comes from.

Wishing I had known to get help over 13 years ago. :<

 

[Helliepig]

Have you ever heard any stories where the horse trained the trainer first? And then the trainer helped the horse?

Any good horse trainer will tell you that a horse tells you when you are getting it right - but only if you listen. Listen with your senses and converse gently....

We did an interesting training exercise once where you had to stand hands held up to the hands of another person and take turns being directed in moving your hands as a "horse" by the "rider" - silently with touch only, and then, work out how to cooperate to move with neither of you knowing who was who - you just moved together as one.... It was really illuminating to realise how much you could read about another person and how you felt safe and comfortable and not at all with others - some people felt very jarring and unpleasant - oddly enough, often the most timid ones almost as if they lacked awareness of themselves and others - others soft and easy to melt into it.

It taught me buckets about how horses perceive us ( and why a then friend, who I later realised was very controlling and passive aggressive/toxic for me, but at the time, supposedly timid, caused her super safe horse to throw her off, "pretending", even unconciously, to be easy going and shy, but in reality her touch was full of some of her unresolved anger and lack of intuition... and quite unpleasant. I found myself feeling jittery and angry at her.)

This whole concept seems important in the discussion around getting comfortable with our partners - what are we REALLY perceiving or what we are giving out, what do we really feel in our partners touch?

Could it also be a simple game that people can do with their partners to improve their silent communication and allowing them to move together without struggle and discomfort??? Something none threatening and non sexual - but very illuminating and intimate.....

Sometimes in a world of abuse where people say one thing and do another we are afraid to trust, confused by our senses picking up one thing whilst we are told another. Could this be a way to cut down that confusion and reduce it to your own awareness so you can trust what you feel... and hopefully then, your partner..?

It also shows why horses are so therapeutic - they are not fooled by your pretences, don't like emotional noise and conflict, and sense your genuine heartfelt intent. There is a real quiet spirituality being with a horse. They are simply a horse.

 

[Eleanor]

Absolutely Brilliant Helliepig. I LOVE that exercise.

And horses are actually quite hard to get into ditches, unless they are super pissed at you and just being mean.:rolleyes:

Of course this brings us straight to my universal solution for every human relationship problem which is that everyone should have a horse.:D

Its a more than fair question Angel, all kidding aside - and while its not recommended to have a horse and rider both start out "green" together - sometimes it works beautifully. "Horses are my teachers" is, according to one of the training "greats" the true title of every horse book ever written! So I think you can, and should do this thing together. This is the kind of thing that gets my T rubbing her hands together and saying things like "AH! now it gets Interesting!" in that excited therapist kind of way.:cautious: But the horse point is a nice one, all "riding" is a partnership (if a horse wants you off AND you are a pro you have a roughly 30% chance of staying on more than 8 seconds.) So, it is a good thing that horses are very very nice animals. They are not stupid, but they are willing to let us be in charge - mostly - so long as we show good judgment. When we don't, or we are rude, then the partnership founders and we are not "riding."

I hear what you are saying about not knowing what you want. I had to work VERY HARD learning to ride - my trainer would say "what do you want him to do next?" and I would say "how would I know?" And he would laugh at me. The rule in horse world is that Someone has to be in charge. And when a human is on the back of the horse, there are really only two candidates; the person or the horse. In human relationships I think (this is likely controversial) it is much the same, only more fluid. That is Horses like consistency (either They are in charge, or You are, and it is best if it is always the same). With people it can bounce back and forth in a kind of dance, and can be different from encounter to encounter. So there is a premium on good, no on excellent communication.

Here is the thing, you are going to need to either tell him what to do (in which case you need to do some prior exploration and figure out what you do want.) OR you are going to need to let him be an awkward teenage boy (sorry Bear!) and experiment and goof around, while you are as gentle and humorous as possible toward both of you when you say good/bad. And in this sense, it might help to not be too "goal directed" - maybe you could (in classic American teenage fashion) limit yourself to "getting to first base." etc:inlove: He is going to have to figure out what HE wants too you know. It occurs to me (and I have to say I am in wonder at myself that I am writing about this on the internet... indeed at all!) that you guys have the same unmet needs but that you've adopted opposite ways of coping with the lack - he runs, hunkers down and accepts, you pursue, push and demand. (Sorry if the language here is inept...) But you are BOTH working on precisely the same thing - getting in tune with your own and each other's energy.

Another interesting thing (maybe) is that you seem to have adopted gender opposite roles - you're doing the "masculine" thing, and he's doing the "feminine"? If you lived near me I'd have you call up this Tantra teacher I know of who might be able to help sort this out if its right...

Maybe a couples therapist who could just "coach" you through some of this "re-training"?

 

[phraglern]

I see 2 different types of 'sex', recreational and intimate.

Recreational is , well, fun. In a monogamous committed relationship, sex to me is the ultimate in acceptance. Each is allowing the other to see them naked and vulnerable. Each is receiving happiness/pleasure by providing there partner happiness/pleasure. You may hug your friend, kiss your mom, pat a coworker on the behind, but sex is the one thing you share with me and me alone. Connected as one feeling each others skin, each others breathing, each others heartbeat. When you are having sex with your significant other you are completely connected physically and emotionally. That I believe is why when couples have problems, sex is usually negative effected. That complete acceptance of the other is now missing.

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

Interesting that I found this thread. I am surprised I never responded to it when it was first started. Wonder where I was. :confused:

Sex has changed a lot for me. When I was a young teenager sex was what men did to me, and I allowed it. I didn't like it but I would pretend I did becasue it pleased them. When I was just a bit older, it hurt and gave me lots of fear. And then...a few times sex got me money and something to eat. :(

When I got married I started to enjoy it becasue I trusted my partner. Sex become a connection to another person. An expression of love, joy or feelings.

I'll think about this some more later.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Very hard thread to read.

I don't even think I can admit what it means to me, anonymity and all. It's just too much...too much to face up to the shame.

 

[Eleanor]

Hugs if you want them @Solara ….

 

[bell]

To me, sex is about healing, because it's never been about me. Only what people wanted from me. (And for the record, I have no recollection of what was done to me, and have been so scared of possible flashbacks -even bigger than the ones I already have from what I remember- that I stay away from it.)

And, going forward, it's about me and someone else healing each other (because who doesn't have issues around sex in some capacity?) and building a bond, no matter whether that bond is lifelong or not. (Now that I can see that I feel like I'm on a mission of some sorts to find said person... Bwa ha ha ha...) Someone on another thread mentioned the book Healing Sex, which I'm reading and is making me feel better about healing my own issues around this.

@Solara, this thread was really painful for me to read as well. Like I wasn't able to breathe deeply throughout the whole thing, I was so on the verge of getting upset. But, I think that as long as we can see that upset for what it is (well, is for me, your mileage may vary) a wish to get better (and maybe even to heal things), I think that it's okay.

Edited to Add: There's also a book called Slow Sex which was really healing for me to read as well, which may be of help to some people?