Relationship What To Say/do When Someone Says They Are Done With Life?

[Everhopeful]

I suppose I am looking for a "crystal ball" here. But, I struggle with this issue. My husband has so many unresolved issues from 36 years of dysfunctional living. I have mentioned before: his family life was grotesque: pedophile uncle who sexually groomed and abused him until his teens, his mother who alternately physically and emotionally abused and neglected him and then started sexualising their relationship and commited incest with him from his early teens. He was considered mentally retarded by his family, but he has a really good intellect. He stuttered and had severe nervous ticks and was sent to "special schools" for retarded kids, where further rapes happened at the hand of older boys.

He was involved in at least two highly dysfunctional relationships with women (after having severe confusions as to whether he is gay or not due to being raped by his uncle from an early age and told he is gay and just face it). He tried to "rescue" these women, the one was a drug addict who slept with every man in sight and was apparently also raped by her own father.

My husband turned to codeine-containing over the counter drugs at first (his mother was an addict and used to shut him up by stuffing pills down his throat from when he was a boy). Then he ended up addicted to heroin.

He tried to commit suicide on three ocassions, and he self-harmed (harms) by cutting. He has been to psychiatric hospitals in the past on an emergency basis (suicide attempt / mental breakdown). He spent two weeks in a terrible prison awaiting trial for possession of heroin and theft of his father's computer(and was gang-raped). The charges were dropped, and he was released and went to rehab for his heroin addiction (he had tried to overdose on heroin to kill himself before his father had him arrested).

He is committed to staying clean (2 1/2 years now). But, he has no more will to live. He is currently in a deep depression again, is withdrawing from me and seems to be making plans to either leave me (he keeps on telling me to divorce him as he feels he has brought nothing but trouble to my life and cost me a lot of money), or to end his life.

I know I need to just let him know I am there for him, that help is available etc etc. That he is now seeing a really good psychologist. But I know what he thinks. "What help?" "What can possibly help me now?". He thinks he is too far gone. Too many issues, a 36 year life lived in pain and suffering and not due to get better any time soon. It all seems to hopeless to him. I think he just wants the oblivion of death.

I am writing this from my work, having to sit here all day not knowing once again what he is up to at home. Is he just going to walk out of that door and go somewhere and slit his wrists where I don't find him? Or take some sort of poison to put himself to sleep forever? Or did he go out last night for an hour to find someone to kill him? He was in a gang some years ago (although he swore off that and said he would never ever go back to that life again). So he knows all about how to find someone to just put a bullet in his brain and make it look like a hold-up or something.

Sorry if I sound so morbid and desolate and I apologise if I trigger anybody with this.

I am low on hope and faith today. Maybe better days are ahead.

 

[franciemarnie]

I know your heading asks what do you say...but my first concern is you. This is tremendous stress - not knowing what you will come home to, trying to find a way, to find the words to help. I just hope you have support, that you can get a break sometimes and have a means of restoration.

I grew up with someone who I never knew day to day what self destructive act he might commit and that destroyed me in a way.

It sounds like he just doesn't want to live the life he is living anymore. Perhaps it isn't that he wants to die, but that he doesn't want anymore pain. I am hoping he is in a 12 step group or has some kind of support to learn to live without the drugs that once killed the pain.

When I gave up painkillers, I was okay for about three years - then all the stuff I buried, the emotional pain returned. If I hadn't been in a drug support group, I don't know how I would have survived. Other addicts have been there and that is why it works.

If he hasn't tried a 12 step group or something like it, I would suggest it. If he doesn't like it, he doesn't have to go back. But most addicts didn't take drugs for the thrill of it. It was to kill the pain IMO. So if he will go and listen, he might learn a different way.

But he has free will. In the end, it is his choice to live or to die. There are no magic words.

But you must have some well being and have a good life no matter what his choice is. I am concerned that you are okay.

 

[Lost Pup]

When I was last actively suicidal, my partner and my mother were extremely concerned about me, which is understandable. But my therapist pointed out that it was completely my right to choose suicide if I ever did, and that his job was to defend that right.

Now, while this sounds extremely morbid, the point is that, for me, feeling genuinely suicidal at times has sometimes been actually a pretty reasonable expression of the struggles I was enduring. While it is rightly terrifying for those around us, it can be extremely important to acknowledge these feelings and vocalize them. In a funny way, just speaking openly about this can be a healing way to regain the power denied to us before.

All that said, I am worried about both you and your husband. I think its important to realize that there is nothing pathological about him acknowledging things are bleak enough that he considers suicide, and yet I am worried that he seems to be provoking you. Which is both very stressful for you and suggests he is more actively trying to isolate or harm himself. Is he willing to talk to a counselor / therapist / spiritual leader?

I wish I had some more practical advice for you. You just sound so sad and yet so committed to him which is probably frightening to him when he feels so damaged. I hope you are both able to find some peace, somewhere.

 

[Lionheart]

I had a very similar childhood and starting getting help at age 36. There was a time that I prayed to die. I saw no light at the end of the tunnel, they say my depression scores were "off the charts", but I got help from a good therapist and I am now 52 yrs old and I have a good life.

I know that I hurt the person that I was involved with for 13 years and I urge you to get help for yourself. The first several years of therapy were truly stressful for me and my partner. I treated her poorly, not purposely abusive, but not the way she deserved to be treated. It is difficult to have a healthy relationship when you have no role models and I had none growing up.

Perhaps you could suggest this site if he is willing to try something new. I used to think I wanted to die, but I only wanted the pain to stop. Many of us who were abused have a part of us inside that wishes to die, but it is only a small part of us compared to the whole person that we are.

That there is hope took me a long time to believe, but I got up and went to therapy sessions anyway and I am glad I did. However my partner did not go with me or get help for herself and I know that she suffered for it. So I urge you both to get all the support you can. It is a rough ride at first but things can and do get better.

I wish you both the very best with healing,
Sincerely,
Lionheart777

 

[arfie]

Getting help for myself has been my most effective handling of this. Alanon and Naranon have been the best for my own circumstances. There are lots of others. Staying sane while helping someone through insanity is no small feat. A support network of my own helped tremendously. Without it, I was hurting myself more than I was helping anyone.

Stay everhopeful. May a healing touch find you.

 

[Stanley Shi-Yume]

I think there's nothing unreasonable about the desire to lay down and expire rather than face a climb back up the spiral. That's the bottom.

So what do you say? What is there to say? I don't think I'm qualified to comment on that.

But. perhaps it has to do with being wanted... whatever is said, it should communicate that they are wanted and valued, and accepted if they want to be there and go forward with life.

On my way down, this was the largest lack.

 

[Tinyflame]

Hi @Everhopeful this is very difficult for me to write and not sure if it will be helpful, as everyone is different. But I hope perhaps in a little way it will be, as I have been on both sides of the fence. At the very least I hope you know you are supported here.

I agree with everyone's comments here, and I think together they help develop a bigger picture. Which is what this is, just a moment in time for you and your H. I don't mean it's not a critical moment, of course, but some moments themself can be most overwhelming.

I agree this is too great a burden for anyone to be under, and I hope that you can get support and help, and be able to talk to someone about it. That being said, I understand living in the fear. As @franciemarnie said, part of one dies. AlAnon and such as @arfie alluded to teach loved ones that ultimately each person is in far gentler, greater hands than ours. And that their journey, though it involves tragedy may lead them to the right people, or understanding and help that we do not realize. And that we didn't cause it, can't control it, and can't cure it. But, we can do what we know or learn to not make it worse. But I understand, some times the only prayer I could make was to give me the strength to be able to handle what I may find or what may have occurred. I live many moments with my heart in my throat.

However, I have lived through very bad SI myself as well, and 2 suicide attempts. I understand his intent is grave and when one has lived through things that are worse than even suicide or attempts 'planning' and a lack of fear come easily.

Oddly enough, what @Lost Pup said I think is important. In "PTSD For Dummies", a woman with ptsd said to her T that (paraphrasing) "Maybe she didn't have to kill herself because he understood why she had to kill herself". (She went on to become a Psychologist or T herself, with recovery). I totally understand that, though cannot explain it well.

Perhaps it is as @Stanley Shi-Yume and you yourself and @Lionheart777 stated, to be frank these happenings -those your husband has survived- are absolutely horrific. It's totally understandable to feel that suicide is preferable. In the moment. It is like an excrutiating agony, my analogy would be if an oak tree was laying on someone's legs. I understand how people get desperate enough to (literally) cut their own leg off to stop the pain (and yet in their case to try to survive, actually).

As LH and Stanley pointed out, there can be healing or progress. I think it is really a critical factor to realize just something small- just one little thing to 'budge' it out of consciousness- can make all the difference in the world. As the suffering is in the moment, (even though based oftentimes on past events). Even if the events are in the moment, that small act, word, support or kindness can still budge 'that' moment. Yes of course it requires a long-term approach to deal, but one cannot think long term trapped within 'seconds' or minutes.

I think Stanley's words are huge, one often feels like the lowest dregs of humanity at these times. And no hope. And horrible. Definitely unwanted, un-needed, burdensome, unlovable, gross, damaged. It's very hard to try to see one's self in any other light or to borrow hope, but it makes a difference. If it doesn't, there is absolutely nothing else you can do.

I hope this doesn't sound preachy, I sure don't mean it as such, and I hope it helps rather than hurts. If I might suggest, the most valuable resources I've come across that provide insight are Schneidman's work, Fr Ron Rolheiser's writings, and I believe a fellow named Charles Joiner(?), he's done the latest research that the absence of the 'fear' factor is a deciding factor.

I hope you will get through this moment, it can be done as thus far I am 'proof'. I hope you can treat yourself extremely well, and place your anxiety and fears in a Higher Power's hands if you feel comfortable. Your H is not alone in this, and neither are you.

Big hugs and prayers from here, xox.

(PS, things like no sleep, not eating, physical pain etc compund everything. I should have said, in response to your question, what to say or do, follow your heart. Say you love him as he is, you need him- he is your H, and also what helps is 'it will be ok'. Not a cognitive discussion of 'how' because that's impossible to imagine or envision, but just that it will be, and to stop at that (for now). Go by what's in your heart and be you, he's trusted you this much. I would say there's probably a good chance he can't imagine why you're still there or ever fell in love with him to begin with.)

 

[Everhopeful]

Thank you, thank you everyone for your gentle, kind, insightful replies. I myself have never experienced this rock-bottom state of just wanting to end it all. So it is so alien to me, and yet, I have had my own share of suffering so I can relate to the pain and apparent hopelessness of it all. All of you mention greatly helpful things, thank you.

@franciemarnie, yes, I have to learn to look after myself better. I am ok at doing that when I live all alone, but now that I am married and living with another, again my priorities change and I focus all my energy on what ails my spouse, whilst desperately trying to tread water myself.

@Lost Pup, you make a really relevant point that it is our own choice at the end. It is such a big taboo in our Western society to talk about death, never mind death at our own hands, of our own free will. I must agree, if he needs to talk about it and express his utter pain in this way then that is what he must do and I will listen and acknowledge. And I will deal with the deep helplessness I feel in the face of this type of talk. It is not something about which one can say "Don't worry, it will all be better tomorrow", or "Here, have a cup of tea to make you feel better".

@Lionheart777, thank you for the comparisons to your experiences. Hope is what we all need, and to hear that someone else has had similar traumatic experiences and has been able to survive it and find a better way forward - that is very affirming.

@arfie, I have a network of 3 people at present, but they are my life-savers. My sister, who is a really insightful, wise woman and two other colleagues and friends who just have to take one look at me and know that something has gone down at home again. And they listen and offer support and just knowing they have my back is priceless. I will heed your call to not go this alone.

@Stanley Shi-Yume, I hear you, my husband's one big thing that he always mentions is how his life has just made him into this being who seems to ruin everyone's life and bring unhappiness and pain where-ever he goes. He feels his mere presence ruins everything and that he is not wanted anywhere, so he should just go and be done with. He has written about his feelings about this, and he describes his being born as finding himself at a party, to which he had not been invited. An unwelcome visitor. No one asked him to attend, but here he finds himself. So yes, validation and feeling truly wanted and feeling that one is able to "add some value", that is the glue that keeps it all together, is it not?

@Junebug, what you write resonates with what I am currently reading in a book called "Stumbling towards enlightenment" (Buddhist woman priest Teri ....I forget her surname now) that moments come and go, feelings come and go. There is no permanence in this life as we know it. I know I struggle with attachment and fear of losing people and things close to me. On a more metaphysical level, I think my husband has been sent to me to teach me the meaning of non-attachment and the ability to let go, with loving kindness and goodwill in my heart. I doubt that I will ever just be able to sit there in calm contemplation whilst getting signs and indications that he is feeling suicidal, but it is something to work toward, that I can be more calm and just understand that these are terrible things he struggles with, but that all I can really offer him is my loving kindness and my presence alongside him. I cannot do his emotional healing work for him. I can just wish the absolute best for him, love him and feel my compassion towards him and pray to my Higher Power to protect him and keep him safe.

I will look up Schneidman's work, Fr Ron Rolheiser's writings, and Charles Joiner with great interest, thanks.

So today, the sea appears calmer again, the emotional storm that was whipping the waves around our little boat, has passed over for now it seems. We had an issue to take care of, it involved seeing a lawyer and checking on any outstanding debts we might have from our pasts. My husband was flooding with fear, I realise that now. He has this free-floating fear that he may land up in prison again. He has no criminal record, but he did see terrible things and he was by association complicit in terrible things when he was in a gang some years ago. He feels that the scales of universal justice are not tipped in his favour and that something will jump out at him when he least suspects it and ruin his life all over again. He feels his lot in life is to be made to suffer. So going to the lawyer and having a cordial discussion with this guy, and my husband realising that he has nothing to run and hide from any more, that he is a free citizen and free to live a life of honour now, I think that helped a lot.

 

[Tinyflame]

Dear @Everhopeful , I am sorry think it was Thomas Joiner.

I dont think as a husband-wife you need to 'just watch'. There are other threads on here about contacting others, hospitalization, ultimatums, etc and taking care of yourself. :hug:

 

[Tinyflame]

And the stress-cup explanation helps.

 

[Everhopeful]

Thanks so much Junebug :tup:

 

[dimplesg520]

@Everhopeful, I too am struggling with this issue with my boyfriend. He constantly says that all he does is bring pain to people's lives, ruins their lives, he is too much of a burden, etc. No matter what I say, it doesn't help. I have also self-harmed in the past and tried to kill myself, so I know how it is from both sides of the fence and unfortunately, either side is hard. When you are that low and feel that hopeless, nothing anybody says can really make you feel better because to you, they seem like just words. You could tell someone until you're blue in the face about what a great person they are, but if you're that sunk into a depression, you listen and nod and say thank you, but in your head the words are just empty, without meaning. Plus you feel even more alienated and misunderstood, because how can this person say you are so great when you feel this way, when you've done awful things, when you're clearly a terrible person? At least, that's what we think.

On the other side, we scramble to say anything at all we can think of to "convince" the person they are great enough to keep alive. We grasp at any words or cliches or phrases that will help the person have a lightbulb-moment and realize they are awesome and more than worth living. We try to make them see themselves how we see them and when it doesn't work, the feeling of helplessness is simply overwhelming.

My best friend killed herself 2 1/2 years ago, and I still struggle with it on a daily basis. I had known her since I was child, and she was my best friend in the entire world. Knowing that she felt so down and so worthless that she thought her only option was to kill herself breaks my heart. It makes me cry even just typing this, because to me, she was amazing and wonderful and my person. But what has taken me so long to see is that it wasn't my decision, and that I can't really be mad at her for making what she thought of as her only decision. I wish I could have changed her mind, but it was still her choice. Worrying about what to say to someone to bring them back from the brink of suicide is a terrible burden, like many have said on this thread, and despite your efforts, that person will make their own decision because it is their death, not yours. Will I be devastated if my boyfriend kills himself, as I'm sure you would be if your husband did the same? Of course. But I'm trying to work on letting the burden off it off of my shoulders, because worrying about it won't change his decision. It's difficult to come to terms with that we can't help as we would like to, but I think it is essential for us to do that so we don't get trapped in that tornado, and if we don't, then we are able to continue helping them and being there for them after the hurricane has passed. I hope this makes sense.

I am praying for you and hoping that the storm stays off the horizon for a little while at least. ((hugs))