When avoiding avoidance doesn't work?

[tiler]

One of the traumas I experienced has to do with a particular profession. It's been years since, avoidance was working well for me.

But now, I am unable to avoid this profession to the point new people who work in this profession are iny life and house every week day.

Everytime they come my hands start shaking uncontrollably and I start sweating, not a panic attack (as with those I can't still function). I force myself to interact with these people, they are nothing but kind and helpful, but I still shake - they don't know. I last about 10 minutes in their presence and the have to dissappear to 'do something' (be on my own so that I can stop the shaking and sweating).

I know avoidance is supposed to perpetuate this reaction, and these people will be iny life for another 6 years at least, so I can't avoid. But... I have been putting up with this for about 6 months to try and push myself to get through it and come out the other side, but it's making no difference and actually it's worse if anything.

What do I do? Any suggestions very welcome please!

 

[Friday]

The following articles kick off the conversation of working with triggers & stressors

How to use triggers as a means to recovery?

To answer this question, lets first define a psychological trigger. A trigger is an activated traumatic memory due to your present environment via one or more of your five senses, sight, sound, touch, taste and smell. A trigger will result in a symptomatic or behavioral response. To fully...

www.myptsd.com

Working with triggers

Triggers are part and parcel of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). If you have PTSD, you have triggers of some kind that cause a symptomatic reaction. The positive to triggers is that with time and effort you can remove them or lessen the symptomatic impact to non-distressing levels. Many...

www.myptsd.com

Since you already know exactly what these stressors are, and how they effect you (anxiety attacks, etc.) I would personally* keep my focus JUST that narrowed… so you can work with & around all the ones causing you the most disruption in your life.

***Slight correction… I usually work on a handful of triggers & stressors at any given time. BOTH hard long slow complicated ones AND easy fast ones AND weird/whatever ones… just to keep life interesting. The fast and easy ones? Means I’ll have nixed 5/10/15/50 little ones, over the same period it takes me to nix 1 hard one. The weird ones? Keep my sense of humour going. It’s just different gears, for different moods, and the sense of accomplishment that visible progress creates.

But... I have been putting up with this for about 6 months to try and push myself to get through it and come out the other side, but it's making no difference and actually it's worse if anything.

Yep. That’s the difference between exposure & exposure therapy. Or throwing a baby into a pool & walking away, compared to actual swim lessons. Or training for a marathon, versus all the injuries and death that happen when a person hasn’t trained to run that far. The slow, tedious, boring way? Works. The fast and dirty way? Causes a lot of damage.

- Exposure Therapy is BORING. And slooooooow. And a control freaks Nirvana. And it chips away at triggers and stressors until they’re just…gone.

- Full blown out of control exposure? DROWNS/FLOODS makes everything harder and worse… about 50% of the time.The other 50%? Splits into a Few dozen different possible responses. Some good, many problematic, some exceptionally bad. (Worse than the 50% of “just” making things worse.). Think rapid decompensation, psychosis, suicide.

^^^ So, the good news here, is that you know you’re solidly on the side of the 50% where things get worse/harder. Which gives you a lot of freedom to know you will be okay, even with all these stressors making things hard, whilst you work on the slooooooow, vexing, boring, way that works.

Just don’t plan on doing exposure therapy whilst people are in your house, until you’ve been working for months on those triggers and stressors, without them present! You’ll know you’re ready to when they aren’t spiking your anxiety at all, but you’re still getting a whisper of a reaction. Then? It will be time to in Vivo it, and get zero reaction.

 

[Tinyflame]

@Friday this sounds crazy, but the same applies to animals too? Until in a way it becomes boring versus reactive? Thank you if you can clarify. Seems it only lessens for me when I have something more important to focus on, or reason for it or to get through it.

 

[tiler]

@Friday thanks for this detailed explanation. I think what I have been doing is a gradual approach as the time they are in my house has increased gradually over 6-9 months.

It's just the shaking is getting worse. In fact when they first came, even though I knew they were a potential threat (based on past experience), I was able to ignore that. But then one of them said something which threw me right back to previous experiences which is when I just started shaking and it hasn't stopped since.

I know objectively that they are not threatening... . But they also might be and I didn't see it coming last time, so I need to be hypervigilant about it. I think this is the problem, I don't believe it's safe for me to drop my guard, hope that makes sense? However, objectively, it's some thing I want to be able to do and to trust again, it's just that I also feel I would be stupid to do that.

 

[Freddyt]

Until in a way it becomes boring versus reactive?

Yup.

Part of that is changing events from "it's happening" to "it happened in the past". Because if it's happening - panic! survival! If its in the past there is no need to panic.

Which is what all trauma therapy does.

 

[Tinyflame]

I knew they were a potential threat (based on past experience)

I think it would be reasonable in the case above to not trust. Trust is earned.

But if you're just afraid they're not trustworthy but they have not been the ones to do it, it's not really accurate to expect they won't be. But I understand. It's like @Freddyt said it's untangling what is past. Not a lesson learned as much as an inordinate fear and re-experiencing (at least I find it to be). More fear than possibility for objectivity perhaps.

@Freddyt thank you. I guess bored was a bad choice of words.. I have a craptastic double- anniversary today; I wouldn't say I am bored about it, maybe sad, and hollow. But other years I felt more guilt or horror, not sure if that's how to describe it?

Was just asking re: animals as was thinking it took 4 years for one dog to finally not duck being petted (and he never had cause with us), then he would lift his head to meet my hand. But. Four. Years. Of. Gentleness. Our current one never acted worse trying to 'rush' desensitization (it's been one year). We decided, boundaries, calm, fun, engaged brain and body, and peace (hopefully). That is, like a traumatized person. And looking at dropping some of the urgency to 'get over it'. Seems much better that way. No point making a worse behaviour, maybe some things have to be accepted and just keep working on them.

@tiler I get the shaking it's a horribly spiked nervous system, intense fear. Flooded. Can you make some boundaries? Can you be not so invested or worried about the outcome? Can you have a plan in mind if you feel something has occurred, or words to say to be nice but assertive enough for your own protection and well-being?

Welcome to you btw!

ETA, I think what works best is associating 'it' with something else that is positive. A different reason you're agreeing (so in a sense you're 'glad' though not really glad- like knowing getting a haircut wil feel/ look better/ be easier to get ready, even if haircuts are a trigger). Or anniversaries, make a new one. Make meanings that are ideally positive versus negative thoughts. I still find it easier to have a bigger purpose (something for someone else or important) than just thinking of myself. (That's just me. ) Good luck to you!

 

[Friday]

@Friday this sounds crazy, but the same applies to animals too? Until in a way it becomes boring versus reactive? Thank you if you can clarify. Seems it only lessens for me when I have something more important to focus on, or reason for it or to get through it.

I used to rehab SERIOUSLY neurotic/damaged former racehorses. Yep. It’s a dance/balance/art… of empathy. Meeting the needs of the moment, with an eye on the wants of the future. Which equates to some kind of… kindness? Ability to see the potential? Recognition? I’m not exactly sure how to describe it.

Applied to myself? I am not where I want to be. But? I can get there.

The goal being less important in the moment, than the awareness that there is a goal. That I’m getting to. And being in the moment.

Even if that’s on a rooftop, glancing at a crowd, rather than being okay being IN the crowd. First? I think about it. Until thinking doesn’t send me shaking/shivering/sweating/puking. Just flickering my thoughts at it. Then? I’m on the rooftop. Glancing. Then? Watching. Noticing the patterns. Seeing the thing. Then? Slowly moving down. Closer to it. Eventually? On the ground. NOT in the crowd. Outside of it. Easy to flee. Untouched. Until? I move into it. And out of it. And into it. Until? I’m IN the crowd, completely freaking everyone ELSE out, by all my unconscious anxiety. Then? I’m invisible. In the crowd. Part of it. Fluid. Then? The crowd is MINE. My tool. That I move in and out of with complete ease, and deliberate action. Or? Not even a thing.

The process? Is kind of vital.

Otherwise? Boredom can f*ck right off.

But coming close enough for a FLICKER, a WHISPER, of a reaction… then backing off and being bored? Moooooooooves the edges of a thing. Getting closer, and closer, and closer.

Ninja. Sounds exciting, but is mostly boring. The goal? Matters. But? Not as much as controlling the moment. Flickers and whispers. Getting closer and closer.

Maybe it’s a mammal thing.
Maybe it’s a trauma thing.
Don’t know, but? It works. With horses, dogs, cats, & people. Kindness NOW, predicting badassery in the future.

 

[tiler]

But coming close enough for a FLICKER, a WHISPER, of a reaction… then backing off and being bored?

So... I completely get this graduated approach. The issue is, it's getting worse, so now it's whenever I even think about it, and, I can't stop it, I can't back off, that's the bit I seen to have lost the ability to do - the 'blocking out'. My ability to do this, which was extremely good.... Has disappeared completely. And I don't know how to get it back because even though I knew I was doing it, I want doing it conciously - I would just do it, and then realise afterwards that it's what I had done and it's why I could go into traumatic situations easily without feeling a thing. But now, I feel everything and can't seem to get back.

Can you make some boundaries? Can you be not so invested or worried about the outcome? Can you have a plan in mind if you feel something has occurred, or words to say to be nice but assertive enough for your own protection and well-being?

These are good ideas, thanks, I'm going to try to do this. I did try to do it before when someone in my house triggered me - I asked them to leave but they were aware they had triggered me and took the approach of repeatedly offering help, instead of just leaving which is what I'd asked for. I was shaking too much and just having a flashback as well so couldn't really deal with them ignoring my request and indulging their need to 'help'

I think I'll need to set boundaries.

ETA, I think what works best is associating 'it' with something else that is positive. A different reason you're agreeing (so in a sense you're 'glad' though not really glad- like knowing getting a haircut wil feel/ look better/ be easier to get ready, even if haircuts are a trigger). Or anniversaries, make a new one. Make meanings that are ideally positive versus negative thoughts. I still find it easier to have a bigger purpose (something for someone else or important) than just thinking of myself. (That's just me. ) Good luck to you!

This is something I do and is the only reason they are in my life/house. Not for me but for others. I struggle with the positivity though, I like to know all the negatives I think it helps me feel safer to know what to expect.

 

[Tinyflame]

Thank you @Friday yes I understand and feel the same. I finally realized when the pup feels accidental physical pain that she didn't cause (even minor) she thinks she is *bad*/ in the dog house. When I realized and counteed with she is not she looked astonished, got out of the cower, and didn't pee. If a dog could say 'WHATTTTTT?", she would have. But she was thrown (I'd say lovingly) in to a truck to get away, they took that effort and it seemed a desperate one. One never knows her history but she didn't end up like one I saw the same size with it's lower jaw cut off.

Yes @tiler it's doesn't usually feel positive. Did you experience neglect as a child? I think I've come to realize (not in a triggered way, but an intellectual way) that it's more than just being independent, or being brave (they're wasn't possibilty for help), or even realizing it must have felt scary as a child (caan't remember most of it). It's the realization one doesn't matter at best (if not targeted. at worst). The thought of one's well being or self is not on anyone's radar. That to me is being alone. Not lonely, but alone, and how that feels and it's reality. Not a big motivator to feel positive or cared for/about.

Best wishes to you and hugs.