General When Does It Become *more* Than A Shut-out?

[sisu]

Hello,
Obviously we all (as carers) need to take good care of ourselves. If not our reserves will be depleted quicky. And by no means should ptsd be an excuse for poor behavior on the part of the sufferer. But....when is it no longer a shut out, but a "I'm gone"?

Sisu :dontknow:

 

[2quilt]

I need a little more information that you have given. What are the circumstances?

 

[Nicolette]

Before I post my comments I would like to raise the following question:

"if you took PTSD out of the equation, and were dating someone 'normal', would you have different expectations?"

The reason I ask this is if you were dating someone and they didn't answer the phone or reply to emails or contact you.....what message would you interpret from their actions? I strongly believe that PTSD is not an excuse for bad behaviour nor is it an excuse to treat people without respect and common decency.

 

[sisu]

Nicolette~
You are very right about the bad behavior. PTSD is NOT an excuse.

The reason I asked the question is that there is a thread about shut outs and lots of other threads mention shut outs...and I guess I wasn't totally clear what a shut out was.

Because in the beginning of my ex's ptsd spiral downward, he just suddenly shut down and shut me and everyone else out. Now that is has been 9 weeks I have told him that I can no longer even be his friend because of his lack of respect for my feelings.

In the beginning I would call it a shut-out. But after a while I had to quit making excuses and call it *over*! As a person on the carer side....how much slack should be given to a person with ptsd. I mean, if someone had the flu or another illness I would also give them a period of time to be sick and get over the illness. What about the ptsd crisis....with respect to the sufferer and the carer....how should one proceed? Tough love with no excuses for poor behavior? Or give them slack during a crisis?

Sisu

 

[Deleted member 541]

Nicolette,

While I do agree with you 100%. PTSD is not an excuse to treat others badly. Being a person with PTSD I can tell you this.


There were times in my recovery that answering the phone wasn't an option, I was struggling to hold onto my life. Reaching out, wasn't one of them either. Hiding, being afraid, fearful, paranoid, depressed, scared, drunk, high on drugs, and coping anyway that I could was about all I could handle.

That said.............It didn't occur to me UNTIL I was in therapy, and recovering that my behavior might have been bad. It just was, I didn't care, I didn't know any different. I still struggle with forgiving myself for my behavior years prior to therapy. I coped as well as I could at the time.

PTSD is NEVER an excuse and should NEVER be used as one. But I want to say this too. If I offend anyone I am sorry.

Don't sit there and tell me that PTSD isn't an excuse for my behavior. Don't try and tell me how I should respond to anyone or thing. Don't try and tell me how I should do this or that. Until you have walked in my shoes.....

When you have gone through what we do on a daily basis then...Maybe.

When you have seen what we have seen...Maybe.

When you have faced death and chosen to die.....Maybe.

When the bottom of the pit looks like a better alternative....Maybe.

When you are so afraid that you fear virtually everything and everyone....Maybe.

When food become the enemy or your best friend....Maybe

When you pray to die every waking moment.....Maybe.....

When you can't feel safe even in your own home....Maybe.

I could go on and on, but I think that you get the idea.

PTSD isn't easy. PTSD isn't for sissy's. You have to be pretty ****ing strong in my book to deal with this shit everyday and still be alive the next morning.

No it isn't an excuse...It's a life sentence and I didn't do the ****ing crime to deserve the sentence either.


So walk in my shoes for a day, and then you can tell me whatever you like.

No I am not pissed, just venting and hoping (wishing)someone can understand how we actually feel.

 

[Cindy]

9 weeks? I'm in my tenth year. I don't think you "get over" PTSD, it is not like a physical illness with an end. It is something you have to incorporate into your life and manage. BUT, learning to manage it and monitor it takes a while. Initially, when you first recognize the disorder you are out of control and spiralling down the drain. Sometimes losing people in our lives, unfortunately. The reason, I think, for losing people is because we can not communicate what is happening to us. How can you explain to someone what you don't understand yourself. Many of us have learned to become very self reliant because we never had support systems in our lives. To allow ourselves to rely on anyone is a HUGE risk.

Do we shut down, cut people out, become hermits? Absolutely! The many times in which I reflect on this process, the reason has been to regroup my own thoughts without interference of others. This is a very solitary fight of gripping our own reality. Sometimes it is just too confusing or painful to keep explaining yourself and thoughts. From the other side, I can see where this process could hurt you and make you feel you are not trusted or worthy of the secrets you may percieve we are keeping. But, honestly, I have never done this with malice in my heart, just with the drive of self preservation.

Do not take a person's alone (processing) time as a reflection on your relationship because that is not normally the intent. Instead, try to develop signals or communication methods that will indicate to all - space and time are required to move foreward again.

As a person heals, their symptoms should space out in time. But there will always be a time when they will need their own quiet solitude to regroup.

 

[Nicolette]

Don't sit there and tell me that PTSD isn't an excuse for my behavior. Don't try and tell me how I should respond to anyone or thing. Don't try and tell me how I should do this or that. Until you have walked in my shoes.....

No-one is saying PTSD isn't an excuse for your behaviour...I have seen a little of PTSD and accept the illness while I wouldn't wish it on anyone. What I didn't articulate very well Wendy is that I believe if a person has PTSD and enters a relationship they then have a responsibility to what they have committed to. As a normal healthy person I would not stand for a boyfriend "shutting me out" as that is usually a sign that he is not really interested. With PTSD, I would be a little more accommodating and tolerant but if it continued on an ongoing basis it would be a sign to me that it is over.

We are not discussing "bad behaviour" in context of the day to day life struggle that suffers must endure, we are discussing it in relation to being in a relationship and how you interact with your partner.

No it isn't an excuse...It's a life sentence and I didn't do the ****ing crime to deserve the sentence either.

So walk in my shoes for a day, and then you can tell me whatever you like.

Wendy, I would not for one minute want to walk in your shoes but say this to you....life throws us things which we would not choose for ourselves. I have a permanent back injury (which was not my fault) and on days when I couldn't walk and 24 panadine forte in a matter of hours did not stop the pain I struggled with life. I did not however mistreat people. I may have been cranky, short tempered, snappy etc but I did not abuse anyone. Here in lies my point. If you have PTSD and you are having a dreadful time and tell your partner they then can try and appreciate your situation. If you just ignore them for weeks on end with no contact that is just plain rude.

 

[2quilt]

My husband's first wife shut him out and he hung around for another 3+- years before leaving her. He loved her and was hoping against hope that she would get better. He almost had a nervous breakdown.

If I were in that situation, my tolerance would have ended a hell of alot sooner than three years off my lifetime. But we are different people, and I am thinking hypothetically because i never lived that situation. I also know what kinds of things she did to my husband to abuse him and I don't like her.

My question is, do you still love each other? For me, and me alone, that would be my deciding question. People do alot of things in the name of love. I would stay with this husband I have until the end of time no matter what happens. I love him like no other person on earth. But he does not abuse me in any way. If he did, my ass would be gone in a heartbeat because that means, to me, that he did not love me. Because of my PTSD and history, I have a low tolerance for abusive people.

Do you consider being shut out of his life as a form of abuse? Will he go to therapy? Does he think he needs professional help? These questions may help you make decisions.

 

[Nicolette]

What about the ptsd crisis....with respect to the sufferer and the carer....how should one proceed? Tough love with no excuses for poor behavior? Or give them slack during a crisis?

Sisu, I think you need to decide whether there is a crisis and then what is it before you can even start to decide how much slack to give. 2quilt also raised some interesting and quite relevant questions which you could ask yourself also.

For me, if I knew what was going on and why the communication had ceased (whether it was truly PTSD issues or just a lack of interest) it would sway my decision. Then, I would do as 2quilt said, and assess the situation in relation to what mattered to me. While I believe in love, it can be somewhat one-sided in relationships where one person is more in love than the other...something else I would have to try to honestly ask myself.

2quilt mentioned her husband waiting for 3 years - there is no way I would do that. 9 weeks, well, unless there was a really good reason, I would tend to think the relationship had no potential and was over.

 

[Deleted member 541]

Nicolette,

IMHO.... If you couldn't wait 9 weeks.......Well I guess then you should move on. Your back pain, and our emotional pain that invades everyone of our senses, our lives, and our being...... is a no brainer. I would GLADLY give anything to have your back pain, and you can deal with PTSD.

This to me is a pointless discussion. IMO you may never understand what we as suffers go through. Patience is a much with people like us. If a person doesn't have any, then the relationship is doomed.

Ignoring people for weeks Nicolette?????? You think it's rude??? How about thinking that maybe it's called survival???? Maybe try thinking that the other person may actually be trying to protect you from themselves. Rage is a huge component of PTSD.

This is pointless. None of you can possibly understand.

 

[Cowgirl]

This to me is a pointless discussion. IMO you may never understand what we as suffers go through. Patience is a much with people like us. If a person doesn't have any, then the relationship is doomed.

Ignoring people for weeks Nicolette?????? You think it's rude??? How about thinking that maybe it's called survival???? Maybe try thinking that the other person may actually be trying to protect you from themselves. Rage is a huge component of PTSD.

This is pointless. None of you can possibly understand.

Wow, you have some work to do, She Cat. You are wearing your pain like a badge of honor. In the grand sense of the term, NO ONE can truly understand where another is coming from. We each bring to relationships our own unique perspectives. Some people benefit from discussing these diverse perspectives in order to gain a broader perspective. Clearly, others do not. Those who don't need not read them.

I think if someone shuts out another for months at a time, it may well be that they don't want a relationship right now. I know that my DH went through a stage years ago where he retreated and drove everyone from his life. It took many, many months to re-emerge (over a year), and several more years before he sought out a relationship.

I was not a part of his life then. Had I been, he'd have pushed me far away too, I'm sure. Timing is everything in life. If someone retreats for many weeks, it may well be that they are into a stage of that sort. How long it will last is anyone's guess. It could end next week. It might end a few months from now. It might end in a year, or two.

I guess in a situation where one is completely shut out, one has to eventually let go. When is the big question, isn't it? If only we had crystal balls, to know how long it will be before a person is ready to be in a relationship, wouldn't it be lovely?

Cowgirl

 

[2quilt]

Above all else, Sisu, I think that you are doing the right thing in your situation to ask the opinions of others to get a better idea what other folks would do in your shoes.

What I really enjoy about this forum is that everyone has an opinion, and it helps me to make decisions when I hear the views of others here. Many times in my life I can only see one way to solve a problem, and the people on this forum, and outside in real life, have opened up my mind to the various possibilities out there.