When people in life just want to stop doing things they find annoying

[Shaylee]

In the last two days I have had run ins with 2 of my daughters. Not arguments per se but more like a block that I am trying to make less blocking if that makes any sense?

Daughter 1 (T): I am currently staying with her as a safe place while waiting my husband to be served divorce papers (he’s dodging and that is a whole ‘nother story). I apparently say “Are you sure” quite frequently, which I know I always have, can’t recall a time I didn’t. The other night she said there was food and I asked if she was sure there was enough. She was very exasperated when saying how annoying she found it I asked her”are you sure” so much.

Daughter 2 (V): I was have a bit of a vent session and realized I had gone on for a bit and then stopped and apologized. (I immediately felt guilty for taking over the conversation and having burdened her with my issues when she has her own life.)

After talking with my therapist she said the main thing she saw, in short, with my history etc is my asking “are you sure…” is an underlying ask for permission to exist. And my apologies are a way of asking for forgiveness for existing.

What I also realized (for the first time ever, therapist calls it a breakthrough, personally I find that a bit over the top lol) is there is zero way I can just stop doing these things. Even the idea of not asking or not apologizing makes my chest feel like it’s being crushed under a 2 ton truck, especially the “are you sure…” business. That particular idea sent me down panic lane. Not just panic really or maybe not panic but more like hysterical? I don’t know.., chest crushing, sobbing, full on alarms with all the bells and whistles going off. . The guilt and horror and terror of not asking, even in a scenario, just had me wishing I was buried under a collapsed building. That was the first time I realized just how vital it is to me to ask “Are you sure…” towards any offer. Like somehow it’s a trick or I will be punished if I don’t or someone will “get’ me if I don’t. I had never contemplated just not asking before. The ‘repercussions’ of not asking are too much and too many things to see at one time (if that makes any sense).
Apologies aren’t much better just not as panic inducing or hysteria inducing but the guilt of being a burden or burdening others was enough to make my heart want to stop.

On the flip-side I have ZERO desire to annoy anyone especially my children.

So I came up with a therapist approved ask of my kids. Basically asking them for a compromise since at this time these aren’t things I can just up and stop without apparently impacting my own mental state in a negative fashion.

Wellllll, it did not go as well as hoped. With V I asked if she could say something like “no worries” or no response at all. (For apologies apparently I just need to say it and be done and my brain is calmed.) I go told no, because she doesn’t and won’t accept any apology from me that she feels there is no reason for. I told her that unfortunately to her there might be a reason, and that I wasn’t disagreeing with her, *but* my brain feels there is a reason and it’s an absolute reason. The reason that may be logical or rational to anyone else but to my brain but that I find it almost compulsive.

Then I basically felt lectured on words having power. Basically it’s mind over matter so therefore, to her, even she said “no worries” or even said nothing at all that meant my words were telling my brain that there was a need to apologize and that it was justified in my brain. I tried to tell her that while I know the concept and even believe in it, that’s not how it works in my head.

I reiterated that until I therapeutically can work through why this need exists, where it started, that for the time being I’m asking for a compromise. She again said no and her basic fundamental reasoning was that for her it’s second nature to refuse apologies that she feels have no meaning from anyone so therefore I’m asking her to change her nature. Which to be honest shocked me and I’m not sure if that’s right or not. I don’t feel that I am but maybe? I tried to make sure and I worked through it with my therapist on a small little template that basically (to me) asked for a compromise. But now I’m second-guessing myself.

And apparently they both talked with each other about my asking “are you sure” about everything and they both have decided that I just need to stop. I just need to understand that if I am offered something then it is acceptable to just accept it without asking. And I should respect that it annoys them. Which OF COURSE that’s the bigger of the two.

I’m not trying to disrespect them. I’m not trying to be controlling of their natures. And if it comes across that way I really am sorry but I don’t know how to make that different. Right now the only recourse is to just stop talking to them about my issues even when they ask about them and to refuse anything offered no matter what it is to keep my own self together and respect their preferences. I am not sure though if that is a healthy way or not.

Anyone else have issues like this?

 

[Rose White]

zero way I can just stop doing these things. Even the idea of not asking or not apologizing makes my chest feel like it’s being crushed under a 2 ton truck,

My take is that you can stop but the consequence of stopping is feeling like your chest is being crushed. So then the question becomes which is more uncomfortable… not talking to them or the chest tightness?

Are there ways to try stopping the behavior in relationships that are much less important than your daughters? So you can begin to build up tolerance for the discomfort and develop workarounds that don’t require the other person to fill your need?

This sounds like a breakthrough to me too—for you to see it objectively is a big deal because only then can you consider taking any action to better yourself and your relationships.

 

[arfie]

Anyone else have issues like this?

macho big time, especially with adult children. i wish continually for a magic wand which will let me change a lifetime of habit in a single incantation. alas, old habits die hard. apologizing as light spiritedly as possible helps with the positive reinforcement with which this tiger can change her proverbial stripes.

Right now the only recourse is to just stop talking to them about my issues even when they ask about them and to refuse anything offered no matter what it is to keep my own self together and respect their preferences. I am not sure though if that is a healthy way or not.

i treat it as a rule of thumb that family members make lousy therapists, even when they are fully qualified to therapute jan q. public. they are too enmeshed for objectivity. finding that healthy balance between the extremes is an ongoing dance.

be gentle with yourself and patient with the process, darkne. easy does it.

 

[Movingforward10]

Maybe stopping is a bit much right not. Everything needs a transition. Maybe that’s the compromise?

I do get your daughter not wanting to say ‘no worries’, as she feels she’s condoning the apology when she feels you have nothing to apologise for. I think asking someone else t9 do something different is difficult…..

It’s how we change.

But you’re not going to stop something like this over night. Like you say, you got to work with your therapist to heal from the drivers that make you feel you need to check things out and apologise.

Maybe telling yourself, can I hold this apology or ‘are you sure’ in this one time, or telling them you feel the need to say it, help?

 

[Shaylee]

which is more uncomfortable… not talking to them or the chest tightness?

I really wish it was just uncomfortable. But it is so much worse than uncomfortable. It’s so bad that even like the edges of my vision become blurry, like you’re going to pass out and death is going to follow immediately afterwards. It’s that “uncomfortable”. I don’t know what word to use lol.
And it isn’t just with my daughters that just happens to be the cornerstone at the moment but it applies to the situation in general.

Here is the partial breakdown down of my therapy session notes around asking “are you sure…” if it helps.

Trauma taught you “better to over-ask than be punished later.”.

• Learned survival: In the past, not asking might have led to punishment, rejection, or shaming. Your nervous system wired in: better to over-ask than be blindsided.
• Distrust of generosity: Trauma makes kindness feel like a trap: they say it’s fine now, but I’ll be punished later.
• This isn’t just a habit — it’s a survival contract. Somewhere deep inside, your nervous system equates accepting without asking with danger, betrayal, or moral failure.
• The guilt isn’t logical, it’s somatic. Even if your mind knows “they offered, it’s okay,” your body floods with alarm signals until you discharge it — usually by asking, or by over-repaying.
• This runs beyond food or water. You’re describing a global pattern that touches every exchange of generosity, no matter how small.

(That last one is because I was so focused on my daughter offering me food that she had cooked that I couldn’t see beyond it, hence why it sounds so weird. It took my T a hot minute to finally get it through my head but it wasn’t just about the food lol.)

i treat it as a rule of thumb that family members make lousy therapists,

Yeah I think I’m gonna have to do that same rule of thumb lol.

Maybe stopping is a bit much right not. Everything needs a transition. Maybe that’s the compromise?

Can you explain the compromise part of this? I am just not grasping what it means right here.

telling them you feel the need to say it, help?

That is what my template was for and I did read it to them. Maybe it isn’t good enough?

And I will be Frank I don’t really understand boundaries completely yet. I am fully OK with working in other people’s boundaries but I don’t fully get how to set my own let alone, for lack of a better word, enforce them. And then the topper is what if two peoples boundaries collide with each other. What happens then? And for me it’s still I need to be the one to collapse and remove my boundaries or reset my boundaries to match theirs so they don’t collide. So with them telling me that I’m overstepping on their boundaries it completely confuses me and I am now second-guessing everything I’ve said or done at this point in regards to this.

Here is my template, I say template because it is slightly different when asking for forgiveness. But the asking of “are you sure…” is the biggest one for me:

“I know it annoys you and that is never my intention with you or anybody else. For me, asking isn’t optional at this time. It’s how my brain survives guilt and fear I don’t understand, and I don’t yet know where it started. Because of that, I can’t just stop. What would help me most, at least until I can work through it, is for you to answer with a single ‘yes’ with no elaboration even if neither of us fully gets it. Just one single yes. If you elaborate, my brain starts spinning through scenarios and I feel the need to ask more questions. A simple yes calms my brain and lets me move on. Is that something you’d be willing to do without feeling annoyed at me?”

I worked through this with my therapist because I didn’t want it to come across as so assertive that I was telling them what to do, but I also didn’t want it to come across as if I was begging. And I also am very horrible at overexplaining so I needed help on how to write this so there wasn’t so much detail in the ask but enough that they know what I’m talking about.

 

[Friday]

After talking with my therapist she said the main thing she saw, in short, with my history etc is my asking “are you sure…” is an underlying ask for permission to exist.

Not just that… but EXPECTING to be told one set of rules, and punished for a second set. Like being invited to dinner and then punished for taking food away from her kids. The bait & switch. I tell you one thing, then ACT on an entirely different thing. It speaks to wanting your abuse front-loaded. Like being invited to dinner, giving them the “out” (are you sure?) Well it means that I won’t eat, or my kids won’t eat, but if you’re that much of a selfish bitch blah blah blah blah. So eat & suffer the consequences of my wrath, or abstain, now. Because it. is. all. your. fault. if you do the “wrong” thing… asking ahead of time? Let’s you know the right/wrong/expected thing.

Which REALLY hurts people who are NOT abusive. Being treated as if they are abusive. And playing those kinds of games. (You f*cking pedophile, rapist, murderer, you! Shrug. It’s not something most people respond well to. Instead? They recoil, then lash out.).

It’s a cross-wires thing. Where you’re BOTH trying to be kind, honest, etc.

She invites you, because she WANTS you; and is smart/capable/able to determine for her own damn self if -or if not- she can afford guests. It is an INSULT to ask her, as if she’s either playing abuse games, or is too stupid to count.

You ask her, because you CARE about her, about her family, about complex things you might not be aware of, and to give her an out, if it will cause problems. Let me know the real rules, out the gate, so I can follow them.

So? Both of you are trying to be kind, and both of you end up frustrated, insulted, & hurt. Crosswires.


^^^ It’s like learning to say “thank you” instead of “I’m sorry.”… To take people at their word. That if they invite you? They mean it. It’s not code for “find out what I reeeeeally mean”.^^^

 

[Torch]

In a past life, I have been an over-apologizer. Saying 'sorry' in situations where it is not necessary to make myself smaller, and less threatening to those around me. I think the logic is along the lines of "If I am small and non-threatening, if I am mindful to take up little space, I will be allowed to exist here in this space with others."

Ties into what you wrote about asking for reassurance, making sure it is okay to co-exist in the same space with others.
Lots of resources online- I recommend running a web-search on over-apologizing.

There's a clear overlap in the behaviors, but by choosing to take the additional step of asking others for permission to exist around them, you place additional requirements and obligations on others where they are inappropriate.
It is not your daughter's (or anyone else's) responsibility to grant you permission to exist around her (them).

I agree with Friday's take, that this behavior is incredibly insulting to people who actually do want you around, not just because you fear they may have ulterior motives and want to abuse you. But because it is implied that either they are untrustworthy or incapable of making decisions regarding the company the choose to keep.

This behavior can also be viewed as self-sabotage, as the people who choose to keep you around will eventually burn out over time by fulfilling the inappropriate obligation you've created and placed upon them- validation for your existence. Could your own lack of self-respect and self-esteem be fueling the impulse to create this false obligation/duty for those closest to you?
If so, what can you do on your own to build self-respect and self-esteem, so you can trust that the people who love you actually want you around without putting them in situations where they have to constantly soothe your anxiety and fuel your self-esteem?

 

[RainbowSearchParty]

I think the difficult thing in asking others for stuff is that they don’t always agree. So asking, no matter how you go about it, invites the possibility of refusal.

Ever heard of fake it till you make it? The idea that if we just start doing actions, even if they feel terrible and untrue, eventually the practice will allow us to own them. Like smiling at people when you feel shitty. Or getting out of bed everyday when all you want to do is hide. I think this might be a situation like that.

 

[Rose White]

So asking, no matter how you go about it, invites the possibility of refusal.

I found this tricky in my recovery. I finally began to develop a sense of self and the *ability* to even ask and then had to face rejection, which could potentially trigger SI, disassociating, isolating, etc…

My best workaround was realizing that I never felt I was allowed to say no (while giving others as much leeway as they wanted). And so I made a kind of logic puzzle out of it. “They can say no because I only want to interact with/trust people who allow (expect) me to be able to say no.” So I guess I projected myself onto them: “They can say no because I can say no.”

I guess I had to develop the coping too not to drop into SI etc.