When Therapy Causes The Ptsd

[Xibalba]

My story is complicated, way more than I put in my little profile thingy. Short story is that a hypnotherapist my ex and I were going to was, unbeknown to us, actually running a cult. We got some pretty dramatically bad therapy as a result, including some very, very dangerous "holotropic breathwork" sessions which could have killed us. (He had me hyperventilate for 45 minutes, robbing my brain of oxygen to make me more susceptible to his suggestions.) I got out of it quick, but my wife never did, and he did terrible, apparently irreversible damage to her. Another guy wasn't so lucky, and hung himself in front of his 9 year old daughter a few months later.

Because he was a therapist, this makes going to therapy an actual PTSD trigger, so I have given up for the most part. I have phone sessions with a psychiatrist, but after 7 psychologists, I gave up on the talk therapy thing. One of them actually tried to take a "tough" approach with me and force me to re-imagine the events that happened, and "magnify them 100 times" in order to "get over them." She triggered a psychotic episode which almost landed her in the hospital, when I fell into a flashback and threatened her. I didn't get arrested, but she did bill for the session.

Anyone else have this Moebius strip problem, where the cure is the cause of your PTSD?

 

[anthony]

Moved from complex trauma as it does not meet the criteria for complex trauma: [DLMURL]http://www.ptsdforum.org/c/threads/read-before-posting-within-this-forum.14005/[/DLMURL], this is purely about your trauma, which is PTSD topic.

 

[anthony]

Sorry to hear that this is your trauma... that does suck. There are some seriously screwed up people in this world....

 

[Abstract]

That does sound terribly tough.

I have an experience in therapy that did traumatise me but it is a lessor trauma. I thought I would answer anyway though as I cannot telll what it has taken to go back afterwards. It has taken over a year of daily work to get there and with masses of support. I am now terribly paranoid.

The prolem though is that I can see that the best way out of it is to face it.

Your main trauma being linked to T is really tough as I can see how it may very well be just too much. Have yo tried something that feels very different? T whilst walking in a park? Art therapy and in a very different setting to the past? Were you seeing a trauma therapist?

It seems the t who had you magnify the memory may have had an NLP approache (?) and I, disregarding how inadvisable him doing this sounds!, would think that would be too close to hypnosis in approach.

Have you tried something like psychodynamic as it may "feel" different enough to break through some barriers.
Good luck and I do feel for you.
Don't give up.

 

[ronin47]

How awful! Such betrayal and deception hurts a dozen times worse when it comes from a person who we are supposed to be able to trust invariably. I had a bad experience with a therapist that didn't cause my PTSD, but exacerbated it in a horrible way.

I called a female T that someone had refered me to in order to see about getting help with paying for therapy and medications again. Even I was just talking to her over the phone and it was the first time we had ever talked, I made the mistake of pouring my heart out and talking about how I was feeling suicidal. She basically panicked. She told me I needed to go tell my mother that I was feeling suicidal and go up to my room and give my mother the knives I had been hiding in my room while she stayed on the phone and listened so she could make sure I told my mother exactly what she wanted me to or else she would call the authorities and have them take me to a hospital. Neither of those options were in any way appealing to me, and at one point she even had the gall to say she wanted to come to my house and evaluate me. I dug my feet into the ground and was eventually able to argue my way out of it.

The next time I saw a therapist, I was extremely nervous. I practically ran out of the office before the receptionist had a chance to schedule the next appointment, but she called me and scheduled the next appointment over the phone. Every part of me was screaming "Don't do it!" but I did. For a few weeks I considered not eating on the days of my sessions until after the appointment because I would be sitting in the waiting room really feeling like I was about to vomit because I was so nervous. Thank heavens I stuck with it though.

My advice would be, to put it simply, ease into it. Also, shop around. Call in and ask if you can have just one appointment with a T for starters. Then explain your situation to them, as much as you'd feel comfortable with, and ask them how they might go about addressing it. Find a T in a setting you are comfortable with and who understands that therapy sessions are your time. They should also, in my humble opinion, have good profesionalism so they can, to an extent, detach themselves and not be effected by the fact your trauma is specific to therapists. A tendency to take things personally is not a terribly desirable quality in a therpist

.

And don't be afraid to take things slow. I've talked to a lot of people on this forum who feel frustration over not being able to discuss the "important" things with their T, but just remember the story of the rabbit and the tortoise, slow and steady wins the race

. The first session I remember having with my first T here at my University Wellness Center when I wasn't in full blown fight-or-flight mode, we talked about a concern I had over my roomate's boyfriend trying to engage me in a debate about Zionism. .

Some weeks later, I finally felt able to bring up the subject of being sexually abused. As I was sitting there on the couch, hyperventilating, shaking like a leaf, and curled up in a fetal position, I asked him, "You're not mad are you?" "No" he replied in a very soft and gentle voice, "I'm not mad. Why would I be mad at you?" "For not bringing this up sooner?" I said tentatively. "As I've told you before," he replied softly, "this is your time and how you chose to use it is up to you."

Try talking first about the "little" things with your T. Talk about getting honked at by a driver or about your boss being a jerk that day. And then work your way up from there, little baby steps at a time. I'll be rooting for you, though you won't be able to see me

.

 

[Reclusive]

Oh Xibalba! How horrible! I'm so sad to hear that. My experience is not nearly as extreme as yours, but my first therapist chewed me out in front of the whole office because I was dropping off some paperwork to my fiance's case worker and said that I was just attention-seeking and that no one should listen to me and it was best to ignore me until I left. I was so mortified and horrified and I BELIEVED him - obviously I was an attention seeker!

Now I realize that was his problem and now I won't hesitate to fire any therapist that I feel uncomfortable with. But of course, part of my PTSD has to do with 'authority figures' so I have setbacks here and there, especially when my current therapist doesn't understand what I'm saying. :(

I came up with something helpful! (edit) I used to hyperventilate a lot when I was a child and my mother was a yoga instructor so she taught me how to use pranayamas to control my body and my breathing - it may be something that you might find helpful since the hyperventilating part seems to be important.

 

[Sterre]

Because he was a therapist, this makes going to therapy an actual PTSD trigger, so I have given up for the most part. I have phone sessions with a psychiatrist, but after 7 psychologists, I gave up on the talk therapy thing. One of them actually tried to take a "tough" approach with me and force me to re-imagine the events that happened, and "magnify them 100 times" in order to "get over them." She triggered a psychotic episode which almost landed her in the hospital, when I fell into a flashback and threatened her. I didn't get arrested, but she did bill for the session.

Welcome Xibalba!
It must have been a horrible experience for you and your ex, and i'm sorry for you that you had to go trough this.

Most people on this forum ( if not all) have diffucult times putting trust into someone. The main problem IMHO is that we all, at a certain point in time, were facing a situation were someone important has been untrustworthy. ( I don't know a better word at this moment, but untrustworthy must be read as an understatement)

In the process of getting "better" or for gaining control of your symptoms, we sometimes have to go back to that painfull or scary situation ( not litteraly). It can be very helpfull to put the blame back to where it belongs in order not to"project" it onto everybody that surrounds us. Our PTSD minds sometimes makes us believe in generalisations, "Ïf my mother treated me badly, every woman will treat me badly", or in your case "this Therapist was untrustworthy, so all therapists must be untrustworthy".
On a rational level you must know this generalisation can't be true.

What I want to say is that you must not give up on finding a therapy or therapist that is trustworthy, and that can help and support you sorting this out.
I get triggerd all the time, if i would give in to many of my triggers I would become a hermit, and my symptoms will increase.
For many of us, facing, and challenging our triggers, is really really hard, but also worth the fight! I hope it will be the same for you.

 

[Xibalba]

Were you seeing a trauma therapist?

It seems the t who had you magnify the memory may have had an NLP approache (?) and I, disregarding how inadvisable him doing this sounds!, would think that would be too close to hypnosis in approach.
.

Ironically, the woman who had me "magnify" the trauma was a "traumatologist" which is why I sought her out. Yes, she was using NLP.

This was part of the problem. The original cult leader operates a hypnotherapy "school" that teaches NLP. My wife was looking into NLP for needle phobia cure, and even took classes with NLP founder Richard Bandler. So when she found this guy near us running an NLP workshop, she signed up. Then he convinced her to convince ME to start going. Within a month I knew what was going on, and got the hell out. My first trauma with him occurred when he used the holotropic breathwork and NLP methods to induce me into an almost unconscious state, and then he fell into a really weird role as "exorcist" and started a full blown exorcism, which (in retrospect) was intended to convince me that I was possessed, and thus needed his therapy even more. (Meanwhile, he was also trying to break up our marriage, in order to separate me from my wife, who was throwing money at him. He eventually succeeded.) I didn't believe in any of that exorcist stuff,but the breathwork session left permanent emotional scars. During that session, a second personality emerged from me -- very, very bad and dark -- and subsequently it surfaces when I am under tremendous stress. He basically planted it in me.

So when I went to this OTHER therapist and she started doing NLP, I warned her that she shouldn't do it. She kept persisting. Finally, she stressed me to such a point that the other "personality" emerged and almost did some very bad things. Ironically, my wife -- who was in the waiting room -- heard the ruckus and ran in and was able to use some counter NLP techniques she knew to snap me out of it.

Yes, all of this is very, very weird. I haven't been diagnosed with multiple personality, since I retain memory of the "alter's" actions, but instead it is some kind of weird coping mechanism that kicks in under stress, prompted by the original therapists breathwork programming. No one has properly diagnosed what the hell that thing was.

Fortunately, vasovagal syncope has replaced the "alter" response, so now when I am stressed, instead of turning into Mr. Hyde, I just faint. I like it better, to tell the truth.

So NLP plays a HUGE part in my trauma, both as a topic AND an actual source.

 

[Xibalba]

Oh Xibalba! How horrible! I'm so sad to hear that. My experience is not nearly as extreme as yours, but my first therapist chewed me out in front of the whole office because I was dropping off some paperwork to my fiance's case worker and said that I was just attention-seeking and that no one should listen to me and it was best to ignore me until I left. I was so mortified and horrified and I BELIEVED him - obviously I was an attention seeker!.

You could have probably filed a complaint with his licensing board or the state for his actions.

Now I just "go Buddhist" and do nothing, letting it all go. For me, the fighting was just making the PTSD worse because I was engaging in conflict, but that's just me.

But everyone should remember that there are bodies and agencies you can file complaints with against therapists.

(Not for hypnotherapists, mind you. They are totally unregulated, making them even more dangerous. I know one female hypnotherapist who, after hearing the full story of my ex-wife and I, and the experiences we had with the rogue hypnotherapist, actually QUIT HER PROFESSION. She said it was just getting so bad, that she didn't want to be associated with the profession anymore.)

 

[Reclusive]

His supervisor approached me later to file an official complaint against him. I have no idea what happened after that - I petitioned for a new therapist and never got one, and then we moved, so... who even knows.

It's so weird that you posted this because my fiance and I were discussing NLP last night as a possible therapeutic tool, now I'm thinking that's not a good idea.

 

[Xibalba]

NLP has its place, but unfortunately it's oversold and often pitched by unscrupulous sorts. Hell, Richard Bandler was arrested under suspicion of killing a guy with a gun (he was acquitted, but the case was never solved), and he INVENTED this technique to control all your emotions and phobias? When I met him two years ago, he was overweight and on crutches (diabetes?) and yet he claims he can cure almost anything in a few sessions. There's also a personality cult alive and well within the NLP community; in one therapist's office, she had a poster that said EVERYTHING I EVER LEARNED FROM LIFE I LEARNED FROM RICHARD (Bandler.) He has a book "Conversations with Richard Bandler" that plays off the famous "Conversations with God" title.

There are, however, some good things to take away from NLP, it's finding a good, honest practitioner that's difficult. Anyone with PTSD or any mental illness needs to be VERY careful when dealing with people who put you in any state of heightened suggestibility. And, having seen first hand what they teach at hypnotherapy schools, the meme that "no one can hypnotize you to do something you wouldn't do ordinarily" is FALSE, It is intentionally taught to students as something to repeat in order to placate and pacify a suspicious public and regulators. I know a man who was on the phone with "my" hypnotherapist, put the phone down, and then hung himself with his belt in the back yard, in front of his 9 year old daughter. (He was Colombian, so the suicide was never investigated, and his wife was either deported or moved back after his death, I was never able to reach her.)

Anyway, NLP and hypnosis are far more dangerous than making you act like a chicken in front of an audience. Please be careful.

 

[Abstract]

This just confims what I have come to think.

NLP and hypnotherapy ar not properly regulated of moderated and I hate the manipultive elimant of it.
Proper reputable therapists study for more than a week or a year and are moderated and abide by a code of ethics. Ebven then there are those who abuse their positions. Excoism or andy such thing is extremel worrying and dangerous!

Please do thnk about a;ternative thearapies as think it could help you heal if you are able to get there. These are grounded in ethics and human sciences and are not about the mind control you were exposed to.
I agree there is value in NLP but I think it can be very dangerous.

Have you looked at th alternative approaches I mentioned?