News Why It's So Hard To Talk To White People About Racism

[Bill Dickerson]

In short? Being a white guy in the United States hands you the above, unless you screw it up for yourself.

I think you have just made my point on the what this whole discussion string is about "Why It's so Hard To Talk White People About Racism".

The rest on Sticklers comments hits just about every confused self hating talking point from the socialist agenda and it would be useless to attempt to suggest anything to change his/her mind. Besides it's off topic.

 

[Stickler]

...John complained about government handouts?
I offered ways to eliminate government handouts in response.

Calling someone a name like " confused" or " self hating " is called an " ad hominem attack" and is not exactly a refutation of any of my points.

It's the debate version of a nut punch, sir.

Admittedly I don't have nuts, but it's not very nice of you.

I think I'd have a felony for something a " friend" of mine did...were I not Caucasian.
Having a record would make life way, way harder.
My life is barely survivable as it is, otherwise I wouldn't be on a PTSD support forum.

 

[Bill Dickerson]

if you appear Caucasian? You did get something for free.

Is the equivalent of a nut punch and it's the reason why "Why It's so Hard To Talk White People About Racism". Your opening remark kills the discussion. I'm white so I'm a racist, end of story.....

Calling someone a name like " confused" or " self hating " is called an " ad hominem attack" and is not exactly a refutation of any of my points.

I don't intend to refute them here it's obviously a waste of my time. As for the insult I was referring to the socialist agenda being confused and self hating. I assume your intelligent enough to consider other avenues. If I inadvertently hurt your feelings I do apologize it was not my intention. I'll try to contact you in the chat section if I can figure it out and we can review as to what I see as errors.

 

[Stickler]

...um...so pointing out that your whiteness gives you ( and myself ) a privilege is calling you ( and myself) racist?

 

[Bill Dickerson]

What I mean is blanket statements will shut down discussion every time. It's like saying all Muslims are terrorists. It puts the Islamic fellow in a defensive and unwinnable position.

I can point out set asides and reverse discrimination that puts my whiteness at a disadvantage.

 

[Stickler]

Unfortunately I have not been here long enough to post links, but you have, I think?
Would you be so kind as to please link to a study showing that white people are less likely to recieve callbacks from a prospective employer than non-whites in any major city in the United States?

If reverse racism and mandated non-white-quota hiring policies create that much of a disadvantage?
Research should be able to show that, right?

 

[Bill Dickerson]

If it occurs once it's wrong.

Wikipedia notes under "Reverse Discrimination".

Furthermore, newer reports by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission have found that less than 10% of race-related complaints were filed by whites, only 18% of gender-related complaints and only 4% of the court cases were filed by men.[20]

Analysis of other evidence shows that when national samples of whites are asked if they personally have experienced the loss of job, promotion, or college admission because of their race, 2%-13% say yes.

There has been several court cases which are listed in the body.

Wikipedia....

Hopwood v. Texas was a lawsuit brought by four white applications to the Texas Law School, who were denied admission even though their grade point averages were greater than minority applications that were accepted. The four white students also had a greater Law School Admission Test scores[17] This decision predicated a movement of banning affirmative action, seen in California in 1997, Washington in 1998, and Florida in 1999.

I agree with the callback argument. A study indicated people with black sounding names didn't get callbacks http://www.cbsnews.com/news/black-names-a-resume-burden/.

I can understand the reason.

How does helping one group and hurting another be right. Doesn't that create resentment in itself .....

 

[Stickler]

...It's not right in any case.

...unfortunately? None of this is easy, nor can it be fixed elegantly.

I want to bring up another example: Redlining.

...One of the primary ways Americans grow their wealth is home ownership. Another way Americans would grow prosperous would be to start a small business.

Non-white people have been historically shut out of those methods of wealth building to a large degree. Not totally, but to a large degree, FHA loans were not extended to homes in black neighborhoods.

Banks also chose to exclude black businesses from business loans.

While the practice of excluding people from home loans or business loans on the basis of race is now illegal, there is evidence that nonwhites are still less likely to get loans, or may be charged higher interest rates.

So...black people, due to being considerably less likely to be unable to become homeowners or entrepreneurs historically and still?
They are more likely to live in less-endowed school districts where their children will collectively receive a less-enriched education.

Their children will be less ready for college, on the average...thus helping to reinforce generational disadvantage.
Can brilliant children still overcome horrendous circumstances?Of course. Why do we collectively raise our children like that? They are our children too.

 

[Bill Dickerson]

Redlining was based on green not black and white. Did it statistically affect minority areas and minority businesses... of course.

Look what happened to the economy when big brother (read Government here) started forcing banks to lend to anyone with a pulse. Many got in over their heads and when the economy dived they couldn't keep up. Housing started bottoming the cycle was feeding upon itself. "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help" -Ronald Reagan.

Do some minorities receive less enriched education.. yes. That often comes down to the value put on education by the groups and culture. I've actually had black parents tell me too much education wasn't good for their children. I couldn't fathom such an idea but several of the mothers present agreed. Look at the emphasis placed on education by many of the Asian cultures.

It's one of the main reasons I get crazy when it comes to vouchers. It's worked great but it threatens the establishment who only value butts in seats because it's paid on volume not value. Look at the amount spent per child... it's ridiculous. Most of it is sucked up by the administration (bureaucracy) and never reaches the classroom. What do we do..we throw money at it. Why would the bureaucracy want to change. We need to break the cycle.

 

[Fadeaway]

I've actually had black parents tell me too much education wasn't good for their children

Hey, my very white and ultra conservative and religious grandmother said the same thing. In fact The pastors of several all white churches I have been too have said the same thing They fear that the schools are brainwashing the kids.

Look at the amount spent per child... it's ridiculous. Most of it is sucked up by the administration (bureaucracy) and never reaches the classroom.

That is true. But the fact remains that most schools in poor areas are crap. My husband was just telling me the other day about an algebra teacher in a mostly black and Hispanic school he taught at, that played cartoon network all day and told the students their grade was passed solely on how quiet they were. He went into administration.

However, the voucher system is discriminatory to the poor in general, especially the working poor who rely heavily on the bus system to transport their kids too and from school because they have to be at work. There is a large majority of parents who can't transport tier child to a school in another district.

I have seen what has happened to a school where every parent that could took their kids out and enrolled them in a neighboring district because the other school was the top one in the county. The school had to put a complete stop to all inter district transfers.

Their children will be less ready for college, on the average...thus helping to reinforce generational disadvantage.

ANd then the parents blame the child when the student can't hack it in college and they drop out.

My husband always says the measure of a school is not the graduation rate, but how many students make it past their first year in college.

 

[Bill Dickerson]

They fear that the schools are brainwashing the kids.

I can agree on that somewhat. There are some very odd things being taught. It's one of the reasons homeschooling has taken off. My point is that they believed it wasn't good for them. I didn't understand the logic in it but it was an emotional response so it didn't have to make sense.

There is a large majority of parents who can't transport tier child to a school in another district.

So we shouldn't do it despite the value in it because it's hard.

 

[Bill Dickerson]

Here is an interesting article on vouchers.

Link Removed