News Why It's So Hard To Talk To White People About Racism

[Ronin]

@LuckyDuck,

Saying someone isn't racist, where they do racist thing and defending it? Is gaslighting, and is insult to an injury.

You know, a couple of people I've known cut off someone's hand and told them it doesn't hurt and won't miss it anyway.

Who do you think was in the wrong in that example?

 

[Ronin]

@Bill Dickerson: Selective reading, there. You got stuck on one word that you're using in subsequent argument building, but that word wasn't the most important thing in the sentence, nor was the concept. What your very quote says is said president is a genocidaire, and whichever pretenses he uses, are not the main point, as he's not concerned with them in the least.

ICC = International Criminal Court.

 

[Truthful_Whispers]

I think all parties have made some very good points in their debate over this subject. It's a healthy thing.

 

[Bill Dickerson]

What your very quote says is said president is a genocidaire, and whichever pretenses he uses, are not the main point, as he's not concerned with them in the least.

Are you saying Bigotry isn't an issue in Zimbabwe or it doesn't really matter to the people in Zimbabwe?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding could you try again.

I hate novel like messages. After a few minutes everything starts sounding like Charlie Browns teacher..Bwwaaa...Waa..Wa..Waaa..Wa.

After the equal rights movement in the 1970s, again the majority view is that "white privilege" is a made up thing / "But I'm not racist!" Or "Privilege my ass, I grew up in the gutter and I'm white!" Being the two most common arguments against it. But both arguments are like saying that racism in the states didn't exist after slavery was abolished, or that racism didn't exist after slavery was abolished because there were poor white people.

I think he is trying to say ....that despite the laws racism still exists.

IMHO Institutional racism can be rooted out but what's in a person's mind cannot be changed just because a law exists.

 

[Ronin]

Bigotry isn't an issue in Zimbabwe or it doesn't really matter to the people in Zimbabwe?

Racism & bigotry as understood by Western standards is not what applies here, it doesn't work by Zimbabwean standards. You'd have to take into account inter-clans & inter-tribal & tribal & collonial and government + rebel forces influences on all of that to get even remotely close to what's going on in Zimbabwe, and that's still nowhere near the picture of what's going on, but are bits that are researcheable online from materials publicly available.

 

[Bill Dickerson]

It may not be on the forefront of daily life but I have found that racism and bigotry are universal. It's all about power and control.

I have a hard time seeing how it could be the root for most of the issues there. The colonials suppressing the natives. The Hutu's and Tutsi's trying to suppress each other. The natives obtaining power and suppressing the colonials. The South Africans suppressing everyone not white. Seems to me to be at the very core of the situation. Someone trying to gain control over others that are different from them. Them vs us......us vs them.

 

[Ronin]

Hutu & Tutsi issues are Rwandanese & spill over Burundi & DRC problem than Zimbabwe's.
'Obtaining power'... I'd ask more about all the issues surrounding losing it in the first place, on people's own land, their homeland.
'South Africans', please be more concrete which ethnic and national-by-heritage or former citizenship group of people you mean. This is like saying 'All Americans'. It's non descript and not enabling other discussions, it's too general a statement.

 

[Bill Dickerson]

Racism & bigotry as understood by Western standards is not what applies here

Your missing my point, there isn't a western standard to racism and bigotry. Racism and bigotry are universal. It's a human condition.

 

[Ronin]

That something is universal? Does not make it a 'simply something people are born with and bound to repeat'. A cycle of learning.

For what reasons and how are some prejudices expressed? Is very, very culture dependent. The optics are different; just with the states you've named, Rwandan & Zimbabwean -isms are present in quite different forms, ditto South Africa.

To claim 'it's universal' and apply one civilization's understanding to problems in a very different part of the world is a fallacy & wrong centrism.

 

[Bill Dickerson]

To claim 'it's universal' and apply one civilization's understanding to problems in a very different part of the world is a fallacy & wrong centrism.

I'm not attempting to apply one cultures interpretation. I'm relating to the human condition. The discrimination built into the human brain. It's a survival instinct. If it's different it's suspect. Us vs them.....

 

[Ronin]

True, but faulty cognitions are still something that can be re-learnt. And there is no need to jump to certain behaviors, based on distorted cognitions. (Such as assuming say, different appearance & skin color, are danger, going full attack mode.)

 

[Bill Dickerson]

No one said full attack mode. That is a gross exaggeration.

You cannot train your reptile brain it doesn't accept reconditioning. If it did no one would choose to have PTSD.

Humans are able to use their brain and choose not to accept their instincts but the instincts still exist. It's the reason for Hyper-vigilance and/or paranoia.

Discrimination can be reinforced by the social structure for good or bad.