Worth/Value

[OliveJewel]

Starting a thread about this because it’s been cropping up for me lately. It might be a short thread because I don’t have much of a position to state, more interested in exploring, especially in connection with suffering.

How much of our PTSD symptoms are wrapped around this concept, particularly the self-determined emphasis on its absence?

To say, “I am worthy of… (that thing you desire, expressing your emotions, and so on),” can be a big breakthrough or a despised hurdle in recovery.

Does the belief in self-worth run up against cultural or social conditioning?

Thinking of how exceptionalism plays a role, either in seeing others as worthy and not ourselves, or in seeing ourselves as worthy in spite of our environment or foundations.

Welcoming your thoughts around the topic. Have your views changed over time?

 

[chihayafuru]

it sounds so weird to me to specifically say the words i am worthy of (random thing) i feel like i see myself as a queen saying i'm worthy of anything.

 

[Weemie]

I used to struggle with this a lot more, but changing the language I use to describe myself and my experiences has helped significantly.

I am becoming more comfortable considering myself as a human being with inherent value, the same as any other person, and that there's never any "conditions" that render a person unqualified for basic human rights.

I've seen shifts in my symptoms as recently as the past year. I'm not sure I have ever considered myself truly unworthy in an emotional sense, but I've spent a lot of time attempting to understand my place in society and how best to ethically "be me."

Sometimes I would get sucked into these spirals of dehumanization and distortion - I should be executed, I should be in prison, I am unable to exist alongside other people, etc. I think this is a bit outside the scope of what you're asking, though.

 

[Movingforward10]

At the moment I am grappling with feeling not worthy of a particular thing because of a behaviour I did.
And this comes very shortly after realising I was worthy of care during trauma and fully acknwloedging that I didn't get it. And the self compassion and acceptance that comes with that.

So it's all complicated because it's not feeling worthy of all things at all times.

And when does a sense of worthiness turn into a sense of entitlement? An overstated sense of worthiness.

 

[Nixx]

I'm just noticing how we all want to use different words to basically say the same thing. I don't like the word worthy because in my head that has a religious connotation than rubs me the wrong way. Entitlement to a lot of people has a negative socio and political connotation. To me it means something different because I worked in social services and entitlement in my head means entitlement benefits, something that by law if you meet the criteria you have an absolute right to access so matter if you feel like you deserve them or not. I like to say " allowed" or even "i have a right". I am allowed to be angry at my abuser to the point of thinking dark thoughts. I have a right to go out and have a happy relationship with a partner in spite of how my abuser would look at me for it. It's valid the way I acted while I was abused, I had no other choice. Easy to say tho, much harder to internalize.

 

[OliveJewel]

I am unable to exist alongside other people, etc. I think this is a bit outside the scope of what you're asking, though.

Not at all, completely within it.

And when does a sense of worthiness turn into a sense of entitlement? An overstated sense of worthiness.

Good question. Something I struggled with too. I wonder if having a caregiver or other close loved one with symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder induces this or if it’s a product of living in a Christian culture? Or just good manners?

want to use different words

Fascinating how the word worth itself turns you off but you’re familiar with the concept behind it and have a work-around, though it’s still challenging at times so allow yourself to receive what you’re entitled to.

That resonates with me, the push to avoid certain words.

 

[Nixx]

Fascinating how the word worth itself turns you off but you’re familiar with the concept behind it and have a work-around, though it’s still challenging at times so allow yourself to receive what you’re entitled to.

That resonates with me, the push to avoid certain words.

I think i can clarify, to be worthy means im good enought, to be worth enough means im valuable enough, they both mean I have a set valuse, like a price. Maybe thats why it feels uncomfortable to me.

 

[Freddyt]

I think my worth or better said my distorted view of worth is really affected by my sense of self - or lack of it - or distorted sense. This has bothered me some since Friday posted a thread on sense of self. Because self and self-worth are tied together. You have to have a sense of self to have a sense of self worth.

When you move from childhood to adulthood is an important time in finding that but if that process is interrupted by trauma then the person may have problems developing that sense. The changes in the brain and problems with prefrontal cortex hamper the ability to judge and learn to recognize complex emotions of others. So learning adult interactions at a time when you are meant to becomes a near impossible task.

And your sense of self stays at that juvenile level. Which means your sense of self worth is in somewhat juvenile terms as well I now realize.

Trauma "resets the thermostat" for a lot of things as well. Some of them are tied to self worth and worthiness. Especially abuse in its many forms. As in you are conditioned to not be "good enough" or "deserving". I am not familiar with this but I see on here where it is very difficult to overcome because the tendency to blame ourselves for trauma, for not being strong enough, and that needs to be overcome to begin rebuilding that sense of self and self worth.

Sense Of Self

Another thread got me thinking (Danger, Will Robinson! 🤖) and rather than hijacking it, since we haven’t had a thread on this topic for a few years, and it’s sooooooo central to so many things PTSD/CPTSD in my experience; decided to see if it’s a topic people feel like kicking around & thrashing...

www.myptsd.com

 

[OliveJewel]

Good point @Freddyt. How to build self-worth if there is no self to build it on? There used to be a long running thread about that, I think it was called something like, “How to build a self when you never had one?”

For myself, I was only made aware of the lack of self, of autonomy, once I was open to the possibility that I was living in an abusive situation and that I had agency to change my environment. I was only aware of the lack of self in retrospect while in the process of building a self. My first username on here was “SearchingForSelf” because finding it felt critical for progression of my recovery. Then the names progressed to “SelfInProgress” and “SelfDetermined.” It was like a process of loading my self. And such a critical part of that was taming the inner critic particularly with respect to suicidal ideation.

So what you said is resonating with my experience very much.

So learning adult interactions at a time when you are meant to becomes a near impossible task.

And your sense of self stays at that juvenile level.

I agree that it can feel nearly impossible but I believe that through effective therapy and significant efforts on the part of both members of the therapeutic relationship this development can take place in an adult body. The techniques that were helpful for me were reparenting, IFS, and transactional analysis. Do I think that is the only way? No. I recognize that there are myriad therapy techniques that can help people develop a sense of self, agency, autonomy.

I particularly think that if you can recognize that it’s missing (like when I called myself “searching for self”) then you are on the other side, and the possibility for developing it, and therefore worth to attach to it, remains present. And from a T’s perspective, even if the client’s caregivers rejected them from the womb and abused them continually, believing firmly in the agency of the soul outside of human psychology and conditioning is crucial. The more rejection, the more stubborn and brave the soul is to seek a path of recovery, individuation, and integration.

f*cking hard work though! They don’t call it the hero’s journey for nothing. And you have to be lucky to align with a good T or two.

I’m glad you brought that up though, because it does seem to be requirement!

 

[Tinyflame]

I don't really understand the concepts of worth or value as applying to myself. Worth to me indicates a reason or use or purpose for my existence and value indicates something or someone needed or loved, or otherwise having an important-enough role.

For me these topics are less triggering unless I'm forced to bump up against the opposite in a big way. But I think (my) problem is because I am fact-based/ practical, and I have a courtroom mind against myself: what is the evidence, either way? What have I been told, what have I been shown, how have I been or am I treated? And the verdict comes in.

I don't really understand what Christianity has to do with it? Though I do feel when people lack the basics it is hard to feel human or dignified. The times when I cannot shower, or eat, or go to a washroom, or wear clean clothes, or there is no water, or no safety, or even privacy, it's hard to feel worth. JMHO. For people in it non stop I think it eradicates any sense of it. It already eradicates so much when you have so much to be thankful for I can't imagine it.

Not very helpful I'm sorry, sort of a topic or reality I avoid delving in to as I either will feel bad or suicidal +/or self-absorbed/ self-pity. (Just for me).

 

[OliveJewel]

what Christianity has to do with it?

I was considering from the perspective of something by like, “not being worthy of forgiveness but receiving it through God’s mercy.” There’s a lot of martyrdom in Christianity and the sense of the weakest person being closer to God. (Illustrated by Jesus throwing out the tax collectors and focusing attention on the slaves and prostitutes—those typically seen in society at the time as unworthy of anything let alone God’s mercy.)

Although there is a modern movement I see which is something like how the TV preachers in the 80s would encourage people to pray for wealth and even today there is, in some churches, the idea that wealth and power are evidence of God’s blessings—the opposite idea of what I’m alluding to.

I’m talking about the sense of like “The meek will inherit the Earth.” “I am unworthy,” is like a morality statement and can be infused in the collective psyches of Christian communities, affecting the mindsets of people vulnerable to abuse. That’s what I meant in my OP.

 

[Tinyflame]

Aw, I see your perspective. I view it more as, ~God loves everyone equally, and the weakest often turn to Him or rely on him more because He is their resource. But I follow what you're driving at I think.

I guess TV preachers are capitalizing on the Just World Theory, by the sounds of it.

I had to laugh, I think God if you believe in a Higher Power is practical. I often think 'The meek will inherit the Earth' is because they are many of the ones caring for it now. Not weak people but something beyond power-hungry, or using the Earth to it's detriment. They give instead of take. Peaceful.