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You Can't Reason With Crazy

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mbrady

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There's no way I can fully express the insanity I am in right now. I have PTSD. My wife has…something yet to be identified. I'm trying to live with compassion for this woman as we've shared 23 years together and have 4 kids together. First marriage for both. But a person only has so much to give and only so much they can take.
In January is was suicidal. I locked myself in my bedroom one night and stared down the barrel of my loaded sidearm. I couldn't do it. The only thought that kept coming to me is what if it's one of my boys that finds me. So I called the crisis line and started to get help. When I told my wife what had happened she asked if she should hide the guns in the house. I said yes. We are 3 months removed from that incident and I'm back on the right meds and seeing a therapist every week. I started carrying my sidearm again about a month ago. Twice since that incident I have asked if she could return the other guns. Twice she said yes. It never happened. Monday I asked her if there was any reason they hadn't been returned. She knew I was carrying again and had been for over a month (my choice to wait that long). She said things are too unstable for you to have them back. I'm a grown ass man. She isn't my mother. I took offense to this but took a breath and pointed out that I'd been carrying over a month now. I said I've banished the thought of killing myself from my mind. Without skipping a beat and, not kidding can't make this up, while she was reading her bible she says to me "oh Michael, you're so deceived".
Ummm?
Thoughts?
 
It's only been three months. I think you should let go on the gun thing and give her this sense of safety that she needs. It's pretty darn hard for someone to accept that a loved one is or was suicidal, and she may not be ready to give you back your guns. I think you're lucky she didn't ban guns in the house altogether. Suicidality can come and go very quickly. I'm personally someone who won't ever have a gun in my house because I can go years in between attempts and they sneak up on me like a fox. Just remember that your wife cares about you and wants to protect you.
 
If I was your wife and I gave them back and something did happen? I hate myself for all eternity so I totally get where she is coming from. I have made suicide attempts but I am also a suicide survivor. I bet knowing you are carrying again keeps your wife up at night and consumes a lot more of her thoughts than she allows you to become aware of. You are only getting snippets of what is going on in her brain, just as she can only guess whats going on in yours. When we are trying to access someone else we tend to look at actions not words. She may be noticing things that remind her of behaviors that were unique to just before you made your attempt that you aren't aware of. Which would explain the bible comment. You are already asking her to take on a lot of extra stress and worry. Not giving them back is offering her a small piece of mind right now, I say let her have the piece of mind by holding on to them.
 
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Thanks for you replies. If you guys could read my intro it would give you some context.
My wife doesn't love me. She hasn't for a while. I could your points if it was being done in love. But it's an attempt at control. And the suicidal idieation was medicine indused. A doc at the clinic I go to thought she had a great idea to put me on something "new" and it turned out to be a derivative of Effexor. The first time I was put on that in 2004 I ended up on 2 72 hour M1 holds. Until someone asked the right questions and got me on the right meds. Apparently that didn't make it to my med profile. It is there now.
In a lot of ways this marriage has been over for a while. She needs mental help and refuses to get it. Or plays stalling tactics by switching therapists before she even sees them. My therapist has met with the both of us twice and sees the need for her to be seen. He said there is much duality happening with her. And he agreed with me that she is feeling deep guilt about something. Her interpretation of Christianity is in step with what most would consider cultish thinking. But if she keeps dodging my many attempts to get her the help she needs what can I do? You can lead the horse to water but if the horse just doesn't want to drink…
Fadeaway what extra stress are you talking about?
 
"control" may be her coping style... however you were high risk and are now only 3 months later carrying a side arm.

I get it... I do. My ideation was "blowing my head off"... I told my mister to remove my own personal pistol and all of his sport weapons out of our home. He complied. But... have you done or do you know how to do your own risk assessments?

What for instance, led you to carrying a side arm? Are you High, moderate or low risk? What does your shrink say?

You can try to boil it down to "control" and lard it up with my spouse doesn't love me... however it is quite a revelation for a partner to learn that a spouse had/has thoughts of putting a gun in their mouths. Your risk assessment is between you and your shrink but you would prefer/your comfort zone is to say I'm grown and she ain't my mother.

Seriously? Clarify your issues and figure out your risk level.
 
I do not have specific tools yet for risk assessment aside from just the implied idea.
To answer an earlier question, yes it was all handguns including my sidearm. I did not push at all. I asked one day if I could have my sidearm back. Respectfully. She said no. Ok. I asked a couple weeks later. She said yes. She said yes and went and got it. This was last month sometime.
 
Gotcha! Read your other threads, I see what you mean now and I rescind my previous opinion. I have dealt with "Those Types" of Christians and yes their behaviors typically run on the abusive side. Not healthy for kids either. I can say this first hand having been raised by by "one of those." (not to be confused with the average christian)

Fadeaway what extra stress are you talking about?
@The Albatross put is well when she said
however it is quite a revelation for a partner to learn that a spouse had/has thoughts of putting a gun in their mouths.
No matter what that is going to be stressful. Her feelings towards you aside you are still the father of her kids. I know people who are divorced totally loose it when they found out the person they co-parent with made an attempt due to the potential impact that has on the kids.
 
Besides this last situation, (I've been following you since you joined) what is keeping you there?... If I knew for a fact, someone did not love me.... I would not be there... and I am confused.... if she gave you ONE back, that is enough to self harm....what difference does it make really... You gave her the power, knowing how she is.... so let it go....again.... why are you still there?
This is not asked in judgement, but why would you keep putting yourself thru this... ??
Hoping this did not come across cold, but I have no problem walking away from someone who doesn't care and seems to thrive on making my life miserable....
 
@Fadeaway - that makes sense. And Thanks for the extra explanation.
@ladee - I've narrowed it down to three reasons.
One - fear. That no one else will want me.
Two - loyalty. I haven't always been the nicest person to live with. In the early years of our marriage before I was diagnosed, taking meds or seeing a therapist I was extremely angry. Being vulnerable here - I can even recall twice I hit her open handed in the face. It makes me sick to even type that b/c it's not who I am. I had no coping skills back then. It was extremely wrong I know that. So I feel obligated to weather rough patches with her.
Three - a clean concisous. If this is to be the end something inside me drives me to make sure I've done everything humanly possible to save my marriage. Within my boundaries of course. Meaning I'm not gonna fall on my sword for again like I did 8 years ago. I know there's more to this than just everything being fault.
So when I closed out my investigation so to speak of root causes and done what I can to lead her to solutions the other two reasons/excuses will be easier to cope with. And I know I'm a catch. I know I'm an awesome father to my kids a great provider for my family including my ungrateful wife. And I have come SO far. I'm literally the only person in my family to graduate college with a degree, most didn't even finish HS. Everything I know to be a consultant I have taught myself and worked twice as hard b/c of the PTSD shit. So excuse one will be a nonissue as I reach toward bettering myself. I've always been committed to be a lifetime learner and this is no different.

I also want to say thank you ladee for taking the interest you have. It means so much. Especially now.
 
I've read your other posts and it seems very clear that with all the action you have taken around money and talk of judges and divorce, that's where the marriage is currently headed: divorce.

You can't change her. You know how she is. You can only change you. Stay or go, you will make YOU crazy trying to change her.

If you don't want a divorce, then I'd suggest *not* continuing to talk about your intentions to divorce her and then expecting her to respond with reasonable compassion towards you. You are only setting yourself up for her to react and you to be frustrated. And she's learning you don't keep your boundaries and you are also not really there to make it work either.

If you want to stay and somehow make this work, you are going to have to let go of changing her (which will never work unless she is interested in changing herself) and seeing if you can find a way to live with her as she is now, including having solid and clear boundaries with her.

That all being said, I'd suggest meeting with an attorney in regards to the marriage and problem solving how to protect yourself, especially since you are already talking with her about how a judge will rule in the divorce -- and she's talking separation as well, and then implying you can't know what is true while restricting your access to weapons... she could be making a case against you for any possible future custody battles.

The fact that she gave access to one lethal weapon and yet restricted access to others and explained it by saying you were deceived... suggests she could be engaged in gaslighting you. I'm not sure she is that sophisticated in her efforts to cope with everything, but is a possibility. Especially when you keep telling her you will divorce her and seem quite done with loving her.

I think I am a little familiar with what sect of "Christianity" she may be caught up in. The way she talks about things reminds me of a friend who read books about how "the evil one" can deceive people to the point of becoming mentally ill.

Her way of trying to understand what is happening to the man she married and the fact that you almost ended your life, might be to ascribe to it overtones as a battle with spiritual darkness, good vs evil, and etc. This kind of black and white thinking suggests she may actually be a bit traumatized by it (making with dealing with other issues in her own life.)

The more you both talk about separation and divorce, I'd expect her to go further into trying to demonize (I don't mean literally) you in her own mind to try to ease the pain of a marriage ending. Right now, it may be her way of making "sense" of a husband who is stating he will divorce her -- which is a huge thing in the sect of religion she may be following.

Your therapist mentions that she seems to have cultish religious beliefs. Scared people who are in pain seek out extreme religious beliefs for comfort and escape from that pain.

People with a lot of good healthy support, steady relationships, healthy connections to others, and who feel safe in their lives tend to be inoculated from falling into the trap of cult-ish belief systems.

I agree with your therapist that she could be running from some deep pain. I agree that solid individual counseling would probably do her some good. But continuing to focus on trying to change her is only going to leave you frustrated and unsuccessful.

I can also see where someone might worry about returning guns at this point... I had a roommate who was sucidial, and who took serious steps towards death. After that almost-attempt, I was very scared for him. He got counseling and he told us that the sucidial thoughts were totally gone.

6 months later, with little noticeable warning, he died. He successfully took his own life. He was separated from his wife, and took his life when the final divorce papers arrived denying him the level of custody he wanted. His children are still traumatized years later. Heck, I'm still shaken from it.

You say the thoughts are gone... but that doesn't make it crazy for someone to still be worried.

Your wife may not love you anymore, she may even hate you... I dunno... but that doesn't change the fact that she still probably doesn't want you dead and your children traumatized. I'd expect most moms to have an on-going worry for awhile.

Your property is yours, and you showed the courage to give them up when needed, and you are no longer in a crisis, so yeah, you should be able to make the decision about them, and I'd suggest consulting with your therapist first and following their direction. But you are a grown man. So do what grown up men do and talk to your therapist about it.

If she is talking about a separation, then she may actually already be connected to an attorney herself and she be worried that when you get served the divorce papers you will off yourself or something. If she's really deeply religious then this could be less likely that she will choose divorce first... She could still be gaslighting you to prep for her side in the divorce you made clear that you intend to file.

If you want to try to make it work, then perhaps you could seek out a more mainstream pastor of a different Christian community, and see if he would be willing to meet with you both. Some will do this even if the couple doesn't ascribe to their denomination or Christianity at all... but this also could be hard to find and something she pushes away as well.

Really tough situation all around.

I think you have some work to keep doing to sort out you and how you can be more consistent in either building up this marriage (maybe not possible) or waking away. I think you have more work to do on wrestling through your own push/pull with her. It may not change her one bit, probably won't, but it may help you get more clarity on how to move forward.
 
@ladee - and yes the whole thing about giving one back and then withholding the others is the point I was trying to make.

@Justmehere - I don't talk to her about MY intentions to leave. She brings up with some consistence that is what she wants. But yet stays. However I see your point about the unreasonable expectation of compassion either way. Just wanted to clear that up.

The solid and clear boundaries are what I'm working on most now. What I will and won't tolerate. For instance I've communicated to her she is no longer permitted to tell me what I think. She may ask questions.

Also I'm not talking to her about how a judge will rule. Those are my thoughts that I'd like to share with her but can't. B/c she loses all self control when we talk now. And I'm not telling her I will divorce her. I'm still trying. So I'm not sure where your ideas to the contrary are coming from. I am not done loving her. It's quite the opposite.

I have yet to reach out to an attorney b/c she says she doesn't know what she's doing yet. If that comes then I will have to shift into a protection mentality. But until then my intention is to display long suffering.

I appreciate the time you took to reply but I think you missed some things about who wants to leave whom.
 
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