You Have To Take Something.

[rightkindofme]

I had a very hard conversation with my therapist today. I've been weaning off of pot for the last month. I have gone from being a pretty heavy stoner to having a pill every other day. I wish I didn't need meds at all. I would like to be just sober.

But at this lower dosage I have terrible intrusive thoughts, suicidal ideation, self-harm tendencies, I'm moody and explosive. In general being sober has meant that my poor kids bear the brunt of me being a big jerk. I try to cut myself off in mid-sentence when I can tell my tone of voice sucks. I apologize a lot. I go from laughing to crying to screaming in minutes. This would be why I've had the hint of "bipolar" for most of my life.

My shrink says that either I need to continue using pot or I need to start Wellbutrin or Abilify. When I look at the list of side effects for those medications I completely freak out. I already deal with most of those "side effects". Whenever diarrhea is on a list I will get it. I will get diarrhea so bad that I can never be more than four minutes away from a bathroom or I have humiliating and painful accidents. :(

Or I could go on a huge long list of drugs to try to fight the side effects of the first drugs. I...

I have a lot of guilt and shame around being a pot user. I come from a family of serious drug addicts. I've never been a coke addict or meth addict or crank addict like most of my family members but I feel uncomfortable with being like them enough to use pot. :(

I don't want to need meds. But I also need to be in control of my behavior and not erratic. I feel so ashamed of myself and so pathetic.

I *need* something to stop the voices in my head from telling me that I am a pathetic, stupid whore who should die. Pot does that. Everything else makes my life so bad.

But I feel so ashamed of myself for being a pot head. It would be far less shameful to be on a "real" medicine given by a "real" doctor. (I *have* a medical card from a real MD.)

I really hate the way I do this. I wish I could just be ok with what I'm doing. I'm not ok with being me though. I think pretty much everything about me is so bad.

 

[ill]

Why were you weaning off pot in the first place? Was/Is it the internalized scripts about marijuana and the shame of being a "pothead"? What actually is the difference to you between being a "pothead" and a a "Wellbutrin-head"? They're both medicine, both can be used to treat/manage PTSD symptoms, both can be legally prescribed - so what makes one medicine superior or inferior to the other apart from the way they work for you?

We all need things to live in the world. What's wrong with needing medication? What about needing medication makes you feel uncomfortable? Is it that you feel dependent? Is it that you feel weak? If you needed insulin to manage diabetes or radiation to treat cancer, how would you feel? What is the difference for you?

If pot works for you and you have a legal prescription, why not do the thing that works for you? You deserve not to hear those awful voices. What you're doing is okay, who you are is okay (even if it doesn't always feel like it), taking care of yourself and giving yourself what you need is okay - it's also really brave and it's really fantastic, but I know it can also be really, really hard, especially when it feels like much of the rest of the world begrudges you the thing(s) you need to live in the world. But you're not hurting anyone and you're doing your best to help yourself. I humbly submit that those who would judge or begrudge you that have their own stuff to deal with.

Please do what's right and works for you.

*I would also add that there is a difference between use, abuse and addiction.

 

[Lost Pup]

If it makes you feel better, I just took a step in the opposite direction. I don't want to use pharmaceuticals anymore and so I just got my card yesterday.

A friend of mine is a doctor and she prescribes synthetic THC very frequently to help Chemo patients eat. She has only just started referring them to an actual dispensary.

THC and the cannabinoids are absolutely real medicine. Nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[scout86]

What about the possibility of learning to deal with the "voices" directly, instead of using medication?"

 

[Eleanor]

I am sorry you have so much cognitive gunk around using pot in a responsible and reasonable way. It is, after all, an extremely effective and very well tolerated drug, and in different varieties nearly the only thing that helps some people.

A few questions to see how solid the belief system you have around this is, on the theory that if you can loosen up the beliefs it might be easier to just use what works for YOU without a lot of irrational shame and judgment around it.

Would you judge someone as being a "pot-head" for using it to control nausea when on chemo? To control intestinal symptoms? If it keeps them from going into a full blown PTSD episode? What makes pot different from (and worse than) Wellbutrin, or any other drug that comes in a bottle from the pharmacy? Is it different from being dependent on caffeine? Most people (me included) have pretty inconsistent and often non-sensical (upon reflection) ideas about this stuff. If a person (like my dad) needs insulin or other blood sugar regulating drugs - is he addicted? dependent? and abuser? addicted?

I think the distinction that @ill makes between use, abuse and addiction is the most helpful way to think about this stuff.

Are you likely to feel a lot of shame and guilt no matter what you believe about this? If so, then it likely makes most sense to work directly on those.

Honestly, you are dealing with really serious and important stuff here, and IMHO I think anyone who second guesses something that works well and reliably for you just because it wasn't invented by some bunch of chemists is … well, you don't really want to know.:devilish::whistling:

 

[Deleted member 1860]

You've posted about why you're weaning off the pot, so I understand a bit already as you've discussed it before. In general, I think it's a good idea given your goal. (You're traveling across state lines, right?)

There are a ton of medications out there. Are you open to the possibility of trying any pharmaceuticals?

I have one go-to med that I will start taking again if the intrusive thoughts and obsessions get bad again---Geodon. I'm SO sensitive that I only take 1/5 of the smallest size capsule. And, even so, if I'm on it too long I get horrible depression, and at any dose it weakens my muscles. I went for a run right before Xmas and injured my leg/knee pretty badly simply because I didn't realize how weak my muscles had become. I'd been off the drug for a month and wasn't even pushing myself. But, if the thoughts become bad again, I won't hesitate to take it. My point is that sometimes we have to deal with a sucky situation and make the best of it. And if that means coping with horrible side effects, then so be it.

I also take Hyland's Nerve Tonic. Is homeopathic and I've never heard of the ingredients before, but it gives my mind an incredible sense of calmness. I know others on the site take it as well (can't remember who off the top of my head). It amazes me how an OTC product can help the obsessions when my obsessions are as serious as they are.

Whatever you decide, know that you are strong.

 

[franciemarnie]

Whenever I have gone off a medication or unprescribed drugs, I had to have something to take its place, I had to be ready - or I was left with a living hell. I took stuff in the first place because for whatever reason, I could not cope with the symptoms. They made life unbearable.

I am using the analogy of an alcoholic NOT because I think you are an addict, but I have been one and the reason a lot of people don't make it straight or sober is they don't replace it with something else. Then their lives are just torture. A support group worked for me. That's just an example to give the gist of what I am saying.

I vote you have something readily in place when you go off anything whether other meds, new coping skills or therapy or support group.

I personally think marijuana can be very effective if not abused - in some situations. Painkillers are another not so good story (my old flame). Alcohol doesn't work- it might temporarily feel good, but causes endless problems. Benzos only work for a while if taken every day.

Give yourself a break whatever you do.

 

[AlamedaSunshine]

My tolerance for "pot" has gotten really high, therefor I have quit as of Sunday. I must say it's been really hard since "pot" is the ONLY medication that has worked. I am back on Trileptal 2x a day and anxiety meds on top of that. I'm back to square 1. night sweats, mood swings, depressed...UGH! the only reason I quit pot was due to cost :( pot...Its' all that works instantly plus all natural!

 

[Seasounds]

I believe that being comfortable is important, as well is being functional. Intrusive thoughts and mood swings can be really destructive to building a healthy sense of self, and make it impossible to be part of the world.

Give yourself a break, and use what gives you the most freedom. Take your time in transitioning to new meds, use the lowest effective dose.

 

[rightkindofme]

This is going to be long and wandering because I want to work through this in my head. Assume anything I write has large flashing TRIGGER WARNING signs all around it because I'm like that. :)

In 2015 I am going to be traveling across the nation alone with my kids. I'm worried about the fact that whereas in my state it is perfectly acceptable for me to have and acquire this medication it isn't legal in every place in the country. Given that I am not going to be flying I might be willing to try it though if I am at the point where no really I have to be on meds no matter what.

I do have a lot of negative beliefs about pot and people who use it. I come from a family of drug addicts and I'm terrified of being like them. (Thus I'm not on coke, heroin, crank, meth, whatever else, etc.)

My experience of being on pharmaceutical meds hasn't been good. If diarrhea is on a list I get diarrhea. I'm prone to chronic diarrhea anyway. For most of my life having diarrhea for *only* ten days in a month makes it a great month. When I have gone on psych-meds I get to the point where I can't walk further than about 4 minutes away from a toilet. I have to know where one is at all time or I have explosive, painful accidents. It is really humiliating and embarrassing. I learned about that in a psych ward where they didn't want me to be allowed to "leave group because I would be disruptive" so I was forced to stay seated. I have never gotten over it. It happened at other times under other circumstances so it isn't like that was married to being in a hospital. But it started in the hospital and has become kind of a Thing in my head.

My experience of every medication that has "potential suicidal thoughts" on the label is I spend a lot of time climbing on the outside of bridges hoping I fall.

I've been through med rounds more than once because other people are *convinced* that I haven't tried some magical combination of medications that will handle the side effects in order to be "cured" by the drugs.

Also: if insomnia is on a list of side effects my experience is that I won't sleep for multiple weeks in a row. I've been on a *lot* of meds. Some of them I don't remember the names of (I was put on several things when I was hospitalized a few times as a teenager) but I remember Paxil, Wellbutrin, and Prozac. Oh my god. It was so bad. So bad. So bad.

So being told that I have to be on something or I just won't be able to get my symptoms under control is really bad. For the period from when I was 18-26 I was entirely unmedicated and I dealt with my symptoms by dealing with my stress levels. If I had to sit in a dark room for days in a row without any human contact in order to be "good" during the times I had to deal with people I did it.

But now I have two small children. My parasympathetic nervous system never calms down any more. I'm with my kids just about 24/7 because I don't have a lot of external support. (No, I'm not going to stick them in day care with random strangers so I can have 'me' time. I don't judge other people who do so but that is not a trade I'm up for.)

Long term in 2020 we want to spend a year traveling internationally. I suspect that for that year I may have to just deal with the intrusive voices and blah and what not of being crazy and spend a lot of time chanting to myself that it is for a specific period of time and I can will myself through pretty much anything for a fairly short very specific period of time. A year doesn't feel like a big deal any more. I've been through longer stretches where I just had to grin and bear it. But I can't just do that forever. It is really hard on my body.

And frankly for a year of international travel I may just do some cutting on my leg and drink more alcohol than is really good for me. It would get me through. I haven't cut much since I was a very young teenager but it *is* an on demand stress relief. Mostly I drink almost no alcohol and I know cutting isn't the best coping method so I don't really do it much as an adult.

But dude, for a *year* of traveling internationally with my whole family I'll do what I have to do to seem calm and able to handle shit with my kids. Even if that means taking time to ritualistically cut myself in private because it will get me through. I'm a very careful cutter. I am not one to go deep. I like shallow grids on my thighs. I use disinfectant. I "know" it isn't an option in my day to day life so I don't cut all the time. I know it isn't something I want to model for my kids. But I'm willing to consider it like having a hand grenade in my tool box. You don't use it all the time because it's not the right tool for the job. I could figure it out though. AND I know that I will over use sleeping pills when I travel internationally because you can get them over the counter any where. My husband will dole them out sparingly each night. Otherwise I don't sleep and that's bad juju.

I think that I am coming to a place where I feel that if my only option is to be on meds because I can't just get my stress level down far enough at this stage of my life pot is my best option. Even if the other meds do work on my intrusive thoughts not being able to go on a forking walk without risking an accident in my britches means I can't actually *live* on those medications.

I'm scared though. I'm scared of getting in trouble. I'm scared of my kids getting in trouble.

The other issues with pot is that my tolerance climbs through the roof. I am hoping that if I deliberately back off for a while (I've barely been using over the last six weeks. I went from four/five pills/day to one pill every other day. I'm not doing "ok". Lots of break through crying at inappropriate times and I sound nasty.) it will reset my tolerance and maybe one/two pills per day will get me through.

Last but not least: pot gets expensive and those other meds are covered by my insurance and I wouldn't have to pay almost anything for them. :(

I have a lot of issues around paying for things for myself. I am already the body that receives most of the direct money in our household because I have a variety of medical things come up. I feel really ashamed of myself pretty much all the time. (Another doctor appointment on Monday.)

My husband doesn't begrudge me a dime. He's very generous and understanding and supportive. This all comes from me. My husband's attitude is "If we need more money I will earn more money." Which is tied up in a lot of shame for me. I struggle with self-worth. I grew up in severe poverty. Now my husband's income puts us solidly in the top 5% and I feel a lot of shame and worthlessness about having access to a lot of privilege I didn't earn. I try to invest the money and pay off the mortgage early and things like that which are not about *me*. I want to prove that I am not a wastrel. I'm trying to have him have a long-term comfortable life even though he probably won't be able to work at this income for more than about fifteen more years. (His industry is very youth focused.)

I feel ashamed of every dollar I spend on my health that could be about his future. I don't really feel like I'm worth the money. His belief is that if I don't spend the money now I am compounding problems that are already hard to treat because I ignored them for decades because I had no money.

So this is all complicated and tied up in stuff.

I'm feeling very bad about myself in general because I'm doing the whole forking laundry list of things I'm supposed to do in order to lower my stress in a more rapid/controllable sort of way. I exercise. (A half marathon scheduled for March and another in September.) I do yoga. I have been trying walking meditation. I swing because the rocking motion is soothing (I have six swings on my property because that is my childhood dream come true--my husband really loves me.). I listen to soothing music. I take baths. I take all the gosh darn vitamin supplements you can forking take without getting into "you can't take x with y". I even hired the neighbor kid to come over for a few hours a week because I really do need more of a break than I get.

I'm trying. But when I'm unmedicated I do things like cycle between crying and yelling and laughing within a five minute period. It is really hard for adults to handle me, let alone my kids. :(

I feel very ashamed of myself. I am afraid of trying to travel even nationally with pot because it isn't universally approved. Then I fall back on feeling like the only way I can be "acceptable" to other people is if my body is in so much pain and discomfort that I am not able to leave my house. I feel pretty worthless and unwanted.

So that's uhm pretty much the situation.

 

[ill]

I think what your partner is indicating by his behaviour and attitude is that you are a very big and important part of his future. I'm guessing he's like my partner - the reason he works as hard as he does is because he wants to be able to take care of those he loves. Yes, you have privilege, but you also have a disabling mental health condition. We all have our blessings and our struggles. I think you have to extend your (awesome) husband some good faith here - this is an investment he wants to make, you are absolutely worth it, he wants to do everything he can to ensure that you are a part of his future, he wants you to be happy, he wants you to be healthy, you matter. You are the person he wants to spend his life with, so let him. Count your blessings, be thankful, and then take care of you. By taking care of yourself, you are taking care of your family, both your kids and your husband. Investing time, care and money into your health and well-being is investing in your family. Trust your husband, and when you can't logically accept and trust him, make the leap of faith: Take him at his word. Act as though it's true.

I wonder if you could look into the legality of foreign visitors using medical marijuana in certain countries where pot is either legal and/or medicinally prescribed. Maybe you could arrange your trip so that you are able to visit some of the countries where it is along your journey. I wonder if there are different rules for pills.

You have nothing to be ashamed of, though the situation would definitely be frustrating. There's nothing wrong with you utilizing a medicine that helps you manage your health and there's nothing wrong with wanting to be able to travel and still be able to take your medicine. Who wouldn't?! It's crappy and unfair that you may not be able to. But do look into it a little more - there may be ways you can travel that allow you to take your medicine along the way, though certainly not daily.

I understand your worries and fears about putting yourself and your kids at risk but let's find out what's possible first: Do some research, talk to your doctor/dispensaries about the possibility of picking up a prescription in another state or visit a legal state, figure out what (if any) calculated risks might be acceptable for you and your family, plan things out. Minimize risks, be cautious, be careful, and do what's right for you to the best of your ability.

From what I'm reading in your last post, it sounds like pot is a big help to you, relieving a slew of symptoms and making you feel better. That is exactly what a medicine is supposed to do! That's the reason we take it. So please take your medicine and realize that anyone who begrudges you your medication doesn't experience your symptoms and also needs to check their boundaries. You're not harming anyone (a difference between use and addiction), you're helping yourself. Which is exactly what you're supposed and need to be doing.

 

[Lost Pup]

RKOM, can you clarify - are you taking pills or smoking?

 

[rightkindofme]

I rarely smoke. It makes me cough something awful. I take cannabis pills from the dispensary. Best stuff ever.

 

[Lost Pup]

Honestly, I would think that gives you a leg up. Much easier to be discreet with them and, I imagine, easier to convincingly argue they are medicine if you do get busted somewhere they are illegal.