News Connection Domestic Violence And Public Violence - Guns - Massacres

[Anarchy]

Make no mistake about it. We are a very violent culture. We also have good things about America, but this violence is epidemic and unknown and abhorrent elsewhere in the Western world.

When are we ever going to take a good, honest look at ourselves and what we all go through several times a year with these mass shootings?

Actually, in terms of the western world, America's homicide rate is far from the highest

That's despite the united state having one of the most honest metrics for homicide. Britain publishes "murder rate" which requires someone to be caught, convicted of murder, and lose an appeal against that conviction

what percentage of homicides do you think fulfil those criteria? if it is as high as 10%, then that puts England and Wales at the same homicide rate as the united state, and Scotland twice as high as the united state

Given the make up of the population of England and Wales, that would not be a surprise.

If you look to your south, Brazil might have fewer "gun deaths" per 100,000 population per year, but it has about three times the homicide rate

If you reduce one means to kill people, you don't reduce the overall rate.

a question for you to ponder

Firearms technology hasn't changed significantly since about the 1930s, and certainly not since the 1950s. Large capacity magazines have been around since the 1880s (Evans carbine, 35 shot magazine)
young teenagers used to take guns to school for competitive target shooting. We've members of this board who were on their school rifle teams

In canada there were virtually no gun laws until 1968. There was even a small circle of machine gun shooters certainly until the late 1980s

Americans were not getting mass shootings until the late 1960s and then not in any numbers until the mid or late 1980s
Britain, Canada and Australia were the same

What changed?

 

[Anarchy]

I wonder, sometimes, how many people end up with personal protection weapons and have little to no training in them.

That is a concern that I share. Like you, I grew up with guns and shooting and was a pretty good pistol shot by the time I was 14.

being safe with a gun is something that I think is best learned and embedded early, things like assuming that a gun is loaded unless it is open and visibly empty, keeping away from the trigger until you are actually going to fire, never allowing the muzzle to point at anything you're not willing to shoot.

I've seen some adults where those principles had not embedded. a bad proportion of them were cops.

Back when I was working in south Africa I had arranged to do the course for concealed carry. Unfortunately the currency exchange rates put an end to my time there before I got the chance to do the course, so I can't comment on the other adults who would be doing it.

 

[prayingforpeace]

I was looking at FBI records for shooting deaths in the USA from 2011 to 2014 and also looked at numbers thru fact check. There has been a steady decline in deaths, granted the numbers still too high. Gun deaths have declined each year from at least 2010. Although more guns, less gun death.

2011 8,874 total gun deaths
2014 8,124 total gun deaths

I am NOT saying that I'm comfortable with those numbers. Simply stating a fact. It may seem with social media, 24/7 news cycles, etc. that people are being killed at much high numbers than ever before. Not true. Both sides will often use biased info to prove their point but if we look at facts only, the numbers are declining.

One number that is up is non-fatal gun injuries from assaults.

Just to compare these numbers with another major us issue causing too many deaths in America. Yup, alcohol:
9,967 deaths due to alcohol related car accidents in 2014 alone. 290,000 injured. 1 death every 53 minutes. Who's drinking & driving?

 

[Anarchy]

I was looking at FBI records for shooting deaths in the USA from 2011 to 2014 and also looked at numbers thru fact check. There has been a steady decline in deaths, granted the numbers still too high. Gun deaths have declined each year from at least 2010. Although more guns, less gun death.

I'm pleased that you put those figures up
they take up where Pew Social Research's time section figures end

Pew was looking at people's perceptions of violence over time (most of their sample thought violence had increased)

compared to the stats > which show a decline of almost 50% since '93
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/

in terms of any correlation between proxies for gun ownership and homicide
the figures are all over the place, whether it is accross united state states, or between nations (although national figures are not directly comparable ) http://predragrajsic.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/does-more-guns-mean-more-gun-violence.html

John R Lott's research with data from all US counties over time as concealed carry laws extended, found a reduction in mass shootings correllated to introduction and liberalisation of concealed carry
though of course, mass shooters target disarmed victim gun free zones, where they are much less likely to encounter anyone who can shoot back.

several other researchers have since repeated Lott's findings.

 

[joeylittle]

What changed to increase the numbers on gun violence in the late 80s? (To answer @Anarchy)

Glasnost, Perestroika, the fall of the Berlin Wall. End of the Cold War.

America becomes the leading Superpower as a result of the massive shift in economics as Eastern Europe de-centralizes its operations, and the Warsaw Pact is dissolved in 1991, marking the end of the communist bloc.

Every nation for himself commences.

Major rise in international cocaine trade. Crack becomes a big thing, mid-late 80s. Smuggling is big business.

All this points to a globalization of black-market enterprises, small-nation armament...more guns, more drugs, no more big bad Soviet bloc.

When freedoms escalate/increase, it's not just about good stuff. The lawbreakers get more freedom too. And when power de-centralizes, every piece that is broken off generally hustles to make sure they regain the strength and defense systems that they just lost: but that means that same small area that used to be protected by the larger alliance, now aims to develop stronger defense: more weapons per square mile.

It was a pretty big time, all around.

 

[Deleted member 28740]

FBI records for shooting deaths in the USA from 2011 to 2014

The figures are for Murder only. Not all gun deaths.

Figures do not include any other deaths by gun.

 

[prayingforpeace]

The figures are for Murder only. Not all gun deaths.

Figures do not include any other deaths by gu...

yes, intentional homicide from what I recall.

The connection between guns and intentional violence / domestic violence. There are more deaths by gun due to suicide than any other gun death category (heartbreaking). I was interested in the connection between DV and gun ownership and attacks on others.

 

[Deleted member 28740]

http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/intimate-partner-violence/Pages/murder-suicide.aspx

Murder-Suicide in Families

...In 591 murder-suicides, 92 percent were committed with a gun. States with less restrictive gun control laws have as much as eight times the rate of murder-suicides as those with the most restrictive gun control laws.

Compared to Canada, the United States has three times more familicide; compared to Britain, eight times more; and compared to Australia, 15 times more.

 

[prayingforpeace]

The stats posted by @Changeling are definitely scary and maddening! I do agree that anyone convicted with DV charge should not be allowed to purchase a firearm thereafter. More thorough background checks and greater discrimination (terror watch list & maybe DV offenders list)) before purchase. I agree! Less guns in the hands of anyone with bad intentions is something I'm for. Especially anyone convicted of Domestic Violence. I think there are some laws already on the books that need to be strengthened and enforced. My issue is that I'd like to keep my right as I'm a law abiding citizen, never convicted of a crime.

Now, if sometime in the future I ever get convicted of a crime including DV, or DUI, I will lose my Concealed License immediately. That's including some misdemeanors. If I'm convicted I lose my right to ownership and even contact thereafter, (if convicted felon).

If the above mentioned murder/suicide attackers are using a legally owned, purchased firearm... then we need to do more to make sure they're never able to purchase.

I don't have the answers but I appreciate this discussion and agree that we need to do more in this country to decrease gun violence. We need to be able to discuss hot button topics like this with respect and civility. I understand that there is another side to this issue and I do try to put myself in the "mind" of others. I'm not saying I'm right or anyone is wrong, I just think it's not such a black and white issue as all or none. I don't think an attempt by the government to confiscate all firearms would actually work. I think we need to do more about inner city violence and domestic violence especially!

 

[Anarchy]

When freedoms escalate/increase, it's not just about good stuff. The lawbreakers get more freedom too.

I guess that when Bush the dumber said "they hate us for our freedoms" and introduced the Patriot Act to cure the problem.
It must have worked its magic in other areas too;)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-16/fbi-us-homicide-rate-51-year-low

 

[hodge]

Bush the dumber, lol. Good one.

 

[hodge]

I hate to say this, and sorry for getting off topic, but if I had to vote for either W or Trump, I'd definitely vote for W. He was an idiot, and not a harmless idiot, but nowhere near as scary as Trump.