News Uk Eu Referendum

[RussH]

I had not heard a lot on the news that The United Kingdom was considering withdrawing from the EU.
Why were they considering it, and why did they deicde to do so?

 

[Anarchy]

Why were they considering it, and why did they deicde to do so?

Britain was late in joining the European common market, De Gaul had previously blocked British government requests to join

When a British government did join in the early 70s there was no referendum, and a lot of resentment
Britains fisheries were given away as a good will gift to the "common market"
There was a later referendum (on the common market) and the vote was to stay.

Since then, there has been a very slippery slope of increasing powers in Brussels and Strasbourg, as a trading agreement has become a fe'ral superstate in all but name, with a European parliament, commission, court, central bank, massive bureaucracy and gravy train

none of this was ever put to a vote in Britain
It was said that as a representative democracy, the elected british politicians had a mandate from their election to ratify britain becoming part of a superstate (although it was never officially described as a super state at that time - It's not as if free trade requires any bureaucracy at all Merchants have proven to be able to do it all themselves and to establish their own laws and courts)

There are probably as many individual reasons for voting to leave as there were people voting. Good bad and mostly indifferent

The arrogance of the arseholes in the various bureaucracies and institutions of the EU is becoming very clear, with Jean-Claud Juncker's angry statement that "This is not an amicable divorce!"

IMO he's acting like a petulant little teenager.

 

[Deleted member 29920]

why did they deicde to do so

alot of Brits want independence, and alot are pretty peeved about all the immigrants who have been let into our country..

 

[greenleaf]

This being a PTSD site, a thought: many immigrants to many countries recently are refugees; many have trauma issues but won't have the resources (computer access, common language) to get onto a site like this. How can we support such people, for those of use who want to? Even if it's just a tiny bit.

I'm concerned also because I don't see the refugee issue as increasing, and as climate changes even catch up with existing CO2 increases, none of us can say that our nation won't need other nations' help in a decade or two. What precedents might be set that could help?

I know that the SW of the U.S. just broke its heat record again, and climate models show the whole region as turning more Sahara-like, real desert, later this century instead of the moderate, more livable desert we have now. (Australia might have similar issues?)

Migrations will provoke more trauma and thus ptsd, the more wars we have due to chains of events resulting from crop failures like in Syria, but leadership is always mirroring us regular people by being short-sighted it seems...

(Please no debates on the validity of climate change forecasts, please just ignore me if you don't accept that science; I am using scientific (climatology) consensus here -- discussions here on this site cannot prove or disprove models better than those folks are doing.)

 

[Anarchy]

(Please no debates on the validity of climate change forecasts, please just ignore me if you don't accept that science; I am using scientific (climatology) consensus here -- discussions here on this site cannot prove or disprove models better than those folks are doing.)

It isn't even a consensus amongst climatologists
Much of it is scare mongering in an attempt to convince us that we need leaders who can turn back the tide, manage the economy or some other entirely imaginary super power

I fully agree that we individually have common cause with a lot of the individual refugees

I've been holding back from tackling the aggregation and collectivism expressed in a lot of the EU debate.

so, I'll grab onto this excuse to rant
Any state, implies a one size for all, procrustean bed, that we all have to be forced to fit

we all need to go to the toilet, but that doesn't imply that we all need to go to the same toilet at the same time
we each had a mother, but that needn't have been the same woman for all of us

an immigration policy denies us the individual chance to invite who we want to invite onto our private property, and denies others the ability to say "not on my private property, thankyou"

it gives the illusion of an entitlement for others to lobby to control who we can or cannot associate with on our property (rental property included) or in our work

one person wants Poles, pakies Iraqis and blackies shut out
another person might want the love of their life to come and live with them

where to draw the line, where ever it is drawn for us, it is arbitrary and unjust; should we be forbidden to associate with people who were born on the other side of the white line that runs down the middle of a road?

far better we decide as individuals and on the property that we individually have jurisdiction over.

 

[Anarchy]

German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said earlier today...
"it is absolutely clear that we are in a situation in which neither hysteria nor paralysis are permissible." Indeed: which is why central banks, the G7 and the IMF all scrambled to prop up... the world's markets.

"We must not rush headlong into hectic action, pretending we had all the answers. But we must also not fall into depression or inaction after the British decision."

But didn't you have all the answers when you said that a vote for Brexit would assure financial armageddon? Odd how that changed so fast.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-25/germany-says-we-wont-let-anyone-take-europe-us
IMO he's completely full of scheisse

Check out the Ipsos Mori, Barclays opinion poll figures in the linked post, for the percentages in other countries wanting referenda on EU membership, and the percentages who say they'd vote for out.

 

[Gadgie]

I saw on the news that the leader of the SNP, Sturgeon wants another referendum on Scottish independence, so that Scotland can remain in the EU?

No way, .......they had their referendum, and lost it, so that should be the end of it!

 

[anthony]

I honesty expect more to leave the EU over the next decade. Will be shocked if nobody does. Richer countries are propping up and supporting poorer countries, so there is no incentive for these countries to change. Just remember what Greece did to the entire EU because of their neglectful financial system, lazy working habits and well... the money just rolled in because the EU had no choice to perpetuate laziness to keep it afloat. Such large financial reliance is madness IMHO.

Honestly I thought Germany would have left first, being the richest of all for the EU.

 

[anthony]

Why were they considering it, and why did they deicde to do so?

There is also massive unemployment in Britain as a result of all these decades of madness... immigrantion with zero jobs available to fill, which has created entire towns of unemployed and thus crime ridden, with no real hopes on the horizon for jobs.

Immigration is a huge issue, and must be tightly controlled, otherwise you get huge financial problems within countries.

 

[Deleted member 29920]

so that should be the end of it

Totally agree, you can't just have a do-over just because the (for want of a better word) losers are unhappy with the result.

 

[Deleted member 29920]

created entire towns of unemployed and thus crime ridden

yes, this. A huge reason why people have voted to exit.

But the people responsible for the chaos are the ones who allowed it in the first place. The immigrants are just pawns in the 'games' of Divide and Rule, Order out of Chaos, 'Problem' - Reaction - 'Solution'

 

[Anarchy]

Totally agree, you can't just have a do-over [second referendum] just because the (for want of a better word) losers are unhappy with the result.

Ireland did have a referendum on the EU constitution, which they voted against and as a result, crashed the project
however once the 2008 bubble had burst and bailouts were being offered as bait, they were given another referendum, in order that they could make a decision that was the "right" one for the elite...

No offence intended to any of our members
The Scottish devolution referendum was (according to the mainstream) swayed by older voters who were afraid (fear is the main tool of politics) that they might lose their pensions.

Unfortunately there is an illusion that many people subscribe to, that somewhere there is a pot with their state pension and national insurance contributions sitting in it, waiting for them to retire.

There isn't. Pensions are paid out of the contributions going in*. It is the same type of fraudulent scheme that Carlo Ponzi was running, and that more recently Bernie Maddoff was running.
When contributions have exceeded payments going out, the government has taken the "excess" and has blown it, just as Ponzi did.

The supposed "assets" are government "bonds" which are just promises to take more taxes in the future, or more likely, to print even more paper money in the future.

printing paper money dilutes the purchasing power of money that's all ready in circulation and works as an invisible tax on anyone who is stupid enough to try to save.

If the population of Scotland had been aware of the true nature of the state pension and national insurance (They're Ponzi Schemes, and they WILL collapse)

The result of a devolution referendum might have been very different.

I guess we'll just have to have a few more devolution votes;

The traditional three Ridings of Yorkshire have as large a population and as large an economy as Scotland, which is in turn larger than the Irish Republic or New Zealand, or Iceland, and is broadly similar in size to Norway, or Denmark, or Finland.

London, Birmingham and Manchester, each as independent city states?

There's no need to stick to the lines which are drawn on present day maps