News Donald Trump's Popularity To Date

[RussH]

But she is a decent human being who has worked for social justice all her life.

Maybe you should listen to what some of her security details, and some of the ex white house staff says about her. There is new book out, I will try to find the name of it for you,but he was White House security while the Clintons were there. He paints a picture that shows her as being anything but decent.

 

[RussH]

This attack on political correctness. What is that? To me "political correctness" means being polite and respectful.

I agree that political correctness is and should be politeness and respectful, and even more than that: equality. However this blow back against political correctness is when schools tell the children they cannot call Christmas, Christmas. We have gotten to the point where a person cannot express their unpopular opinion without being called a bigot or a racist. And I am going to cite this example, however let me make it clear, I am not picking on @coco9 so please do not be offended.

, we can no longer pull the Confederate flag over the rednecks eyes

Because many southerners have expressed their devotion to the confederate flag, and the history it represents, we are considered politically incorrect and called rednecks. I am a student of the Civil War, also known as the War between the States, the War of Northern Aggression, and the Second Revolutionary War.
Slavery was one issue in a sea of much bigger issues. If you go back, and study the events leading up to the war, and the things that happened during the war, you will see that Lincoln, whom I greatly respect as our best President, trampled on the constitutional rights of the southern states, and the southern people.

But now, because we like to honor our history, and honor the men who fought and died for the south, we are being called racist, bigots, and hatemongers.
We cannot display this historical flag because we might offend someone.

So, the stand againt political correctness is, it only goes one way. We must walk on egg shells for fear of offending someone, but they can offend us without fear .

Again this is just one example. There are others. If you listen to the hate filled racist bigotry of Al Sharpton, it is perfectly fine for him to say what he does against white people, but could you imagine the blow back if a white person talked the same way about people of color:?

Lastly, this concept of political correctness, and Islam. I believe we need to show respect for Muslims, but we also need to recognize that until we solve the problem of Radical Islamic terrorism, then there must be policies in place to protect innocent human life. I am sorry, but if a person wants to come to the United States from a country that supports, or winks at terrorism,then that person must be thouroughly vetted before being allowed over here.
It is not a question of bigotry to seem politically incorrect in this situation, it is a matter of security

 

[sedna]

Maybe you should listen to what some of her security details, and some of the ex white house staff says a...

Russ,
Thats Gary Byrne's book..Crises In Character.

I know me and my big mouthed insomnia is in danger of becoming the bane of your posts here, but Byrne is not that credible. All the security said she was a ride B word. Gary is making some stuff up. He blames his job as a low level security guy, watching the door to the Oval Office getting snapped at by Hillary for turning to drugs and prostitutes. :rolleyes:

Here is a more credible way to put a light on her personality problems, there are numerous ways to find her undeniable methods of character assassination regarding any women Bill was with that threatened to come forward, or did come forward with reports of a sexual relationship that they could somehow prove. She was determined to instill fear in these women to control them and her investment in her partnership with Bill. They are a political team, its not a traditional marriage.

Her personal character is absolutely lacking, I believe she is a nasty and formidable woman. :devilish:

Okay, away I go. Must start job and group therapies so I'll unable to bother you as much in the future! :troll:

 

[RussH]

Must start job and group therapies

I hope the job and therapies go well.

 

[sedna]

I agree that political correctness is and should be politeness and respectful, and even more than that: e...

Russ, I get what you're saying completely, I was being a part of the problem with my redneck comment and I was deliberately mocking Trump supporters with a generalized stereotype of who the main group of supporters appear to be. That is not being part of the solution. I see that, and its my bad for sure.

But, the Confederate flag where I am from, is attached to people who absolutely do not respect others, its not a patriotic southern expression. When you see that in central or northern California, you've got a white gang member behind it most of the time. There are four maximum security prisons within a 300 mile radius here. That is the truth of my experience, and its real for us here. So I didnt just pull that stereotype out of thin air. This is not all people that would have that flag here, MOST of them.

This really is a huge country, we are all different and have different cultures because of it.

I do very much appreciate the way you get your thoughts out in a way that is peaceful but still gets a firm point across, its what debating is all about, we both learn things I hope. Its all good.

 

[RussH]

But, the Confederate flag where I am from, is attached to people who absolutely do not respect others,

These people, and groups like the KKK have desecrated the southern cross flag, as it is called. When the civil war was fought by the south, it was fought for many of the same reasons the thirteen colonies fought against England.

 

[scout86]

@RussH , thanks for getting back to this!

when schools tell the children they cannot call Christmas,

I don't doubt that's happens somewhere. It's never happened anywhere I've actually heard of it happening though. What is more typical is, if a school is going to celebrate a winter holiday at the end of the year, it's an inclusive event with a nod to ALL holidays celebrated that time of year. With Christmas being one of them. I do think it's probably gone too far. I mean, I'd hardly be offended if someone sent me a Hannaka card or a Quanza card, if people do that sort of thing. We probably need to focus more on the spirit behind this stuff, from ALL sides of the issue, instead of being so picky about "getting it right". Of course, the spirit behind something can be hard to sort out.

Because many southerners have expressed their devotion to the confederate flag, and the history it represents,

Speaking as an unrepentant "yankee" I think it's high time we quit fighting that particular war. Until I spent my 2 years in FL and endured 2 years of mean spirited "Yankee jokes" I had no idea how much bitterness still exists. I didn't even HAVE family members in this country at that time. It's just hard for me to understand. I guess my thought it, the Confederate flag is a symbol. It means different things to different people. People who cherish it have the right to do so. They have the right to display it, even if others find it offensive. Others have the right to be offended and to express that opinion. The STATE however, does NOT have to right to display it because the state exists for everyone and that flag represents, among other things, treason, even if well intended by the best of the best. You're right, that war was about a lot of things.

Russ, here's how I see it, from a different perspective. There was stuff that happened to me when I was a kid that was unfortunate. Things would have been different if different things had happened, but what happened happened, the important task ahead is dealing with the results. Slavery was and is wrong. This country would be a different place if it hadn't existed. I don't honestly know that it would be a BETTER place, because it brought us the ancestors of some truly remarkable people. I wonder if we'd have had Martin Luther King, or Julian Bond, or Shirley Chisholm, or Wilma Rudolph, or a lot of others if it hadn't been for slavery. That doesn't justify slavery, just means it's remarkable the great good that can rise up out of great evil.

But you're right, that war was fought over a lot of things. The end of slavery was one of it's better outcomes.

If you listen to the hate filled racist bigotry of Al Sharpton, it is perfectly fine for him to say what he does against white people, but could you imagine the blow back if a white person talked the same way about people of color:?

I have to kind of agree with that. The only thing I would say is that he doesn't represent everyone and I can see where the hate comes from. In a better world, we'd all be able to stand an infinite amount of abuse and be unaffected by it. Maybe that's better...... If no one ever says "Enough is enough!" where does the change come from? But, personally, I think hate speech from anyone causes more problems than it solves.

A wise mentor of mine used to say, "Sometimes you need to ask yourself 'what do you really want?' Do you want the shear joy of a really good fight? Or do you actually want to accomplish something? Because usually you can't do both with the same technique."

I believe we need to show respect for Muslims, but we also need to recognize that until we solve the problem of Radical Islamic terrorism, then there must be policies in place to protect innocent human life.

I'm not entirely sure that "we" can solve that problem. I think we've gone a long ways toward making it a bigger deal by running rough shod over people without paying attention to the background of how things got to where they were. I think we've done a bunch of partial "solving" of problems that allowed different problems to rise to the surface. But, IMO we CAN'T make the world "safe" it never has been and probably never will be. It would be a whole lot safer without people in it, but that's not on the table. There is a vetting process for refugees. For the most part, they are fleeing exactly the things we all would avoid. The vetting process must be working reasonably well, because we haven't had much in the way of violence from any of those refugees here. People, with communication what it is today, can get "radicalized" in a lot of ways. We have radical extremists of our own too. I don't know..... I guess I'd take a chance on getting hurt or killed in a "radical Islam" attack of some sort, if I knew some kid had had their life saved because the same program that allowed the radical in allowed the kid in. But, I don't think that's really what it's about.

 

[RussH]

background of how things got to where they were

Unfortunately the radical islamist still blame us for the crusades.

. The STATE however, does NOT have to right to display it

I understand what you are saying, but this flag was a part of the states history, and I personally think that we need to remember our history no matter how good, or ugly it may be.
You are right there is still bitterness in a minority of southerners, and most of it goes back to their great grand parents who lived through the war.

Here is an irony of the war. General Robert E Lee, the commanding General of the Army of Northern Virginia never purchased a slave, and freed all the slaves on his wife's family farm, Arlington, ten years before the war started. General Ulysses S Grant, commanding officer of the Army of the Potomac, on the other hand personally owned slaves. When he met Lee at the Appomattox Courthouse he brought his slave with him.

The emancipation proclamation signed by Lincoln in 1863 freed, only the slaves in confederate held lands. It did not free the slaves in northern states. The war did not end slavery, because it was still legal in the north until the passing of the 13th amendment.

The real reason the north fought the south to stop succession came down to money. The wealth of the south was providing a good portion of the federal government's budget, and Lincoln did not want to lose the money.

 

[scout86]

Unfortunately the radical islamist still blame us for the crusades.

True. This seems to be a very human trait. Most of the long running disputes in this world seem to come down to people being unable to let go of past wrongs. I think the long running "unpleasantness" around the Civil War (what ever you chose to call it) comes from the same place. I think the conflict in Northern Ireland came from the same place. And I honestly think Nelson Mandela & co came up with the best means, so far, of dealing with stuff like this.

I did NOT know that Grant owned slaves, and found this pretty interesting. Link Removed Far as I'm concerned, both of those gentlemen were soldiers, doing what they perceived as their jobs, to the very best of their ability.

The wealth of the south was providing a good portion of the federal government's budget, and Lincoln did not want to lose the money.

I'm sure that was a factor. I also think there were people who just plain wanted to see the union of states that was this country maintained. I think there were also people for whom slavery was the major issue. There was a lot that went into that and I don't think the decision to go to war was made lightly, on either side.

To be completely honest, I'm not sure I think the union was worth preserving. I think this country might just be too big and diverse for all practical purposes. And, if it was a bunch of smaller countries, it wouldn't have had the ability to effect world events that it's had. Maybe human beings just aren't wired to function in groups much bigger than a township, where you really DO have the chance to know the people you're dealing with in real life, not just the persona they choose to project in public. (Is debating the Civil War off topic? :nailbiting:)

 

[scout86]

I personally think that we need to remember our history no matter how good, or ugly it may be.

I forgot about this... I agree with that. I DO think that the history that's taught should be as accurate and inclusive as possible. I think it's important to teach how EVERYONE was affected by historical events. Not because I want to see the descendants of anyone made to pay some kind of price for the perceived sins of their ancestors but because I think it's valuable to learn that people are people, regardless of anything else, with the same feelings and flaws, strengths and ways of thinking,regardless of any other differences. If you really teach the history, you embrace the reasons some people find the flag offensive.

Russ, I have a question, and maybe you can answer it. I'm at a total loss to understand how Christians can embrace a candidate who's as frequently crass and down right mean and hateful as Mr Trump. I know we don't have much to chose from this year! (Have you read the "Left Behind" books? If you have, Trump honestly keeps reminding me of Nicolae Carpathia and I can't quite get past that!)

 

[RussH]

Russ, I have a question, and maybe you can answer it. I'm at a total loss to understand how Christians can embrace a candidate who's as frequently crass and down right mean and hateful as Mr Trump. I know we don't have much to chose from this year! (Have you read the "Left Behind" books? If you have, Trump honestly keeps reminding me of Nicolae Carpathia and I can't quite get past that!)

There is an old joke where a mafia godfather dies. His brother goes to the Priest and tells him I will give the church 50,000 dollars if you say my brother was a good man in the eulogy.
The Priest knows what kind of a man he is, but also knows how much the church needs the money.
When the Priest gives the eulogy he talks about have evil the man is; he ran prostitutes, ran drugs, gambling, and killed people, but "next to his brother, he is a good man" Hilary, in my opinion is the living brother. She has proven to the American people she cannot be trusted at all.
As for Trump, everything I have heard from his family and friends like Mayor Giuliani, and others he has this public persona, and the private persona. In private he is a warm and caring individual that helps people.

Also, his pick for VP is a very strong Christian, who has already said he is not afraid to go into the White House and tell Trump he is wrong. I find great hope in the fact that he has chosen a committed Christian to be his running mate.

He has also promised to choose Supreme Court justices that are strict constructionist. We need justices that will determine the constitutionality of a law based on the constitution, and not their own political agenda.

Trump is a long way from perfect, but I have frequently told my friends that he has the potential to be a great, or terrible President, be he will not be a mediocre President.
Hilary, at best, will be a mediocre President.

Lastly, the Bible tells us that God appoints our leaders, and I believe ultimately that is true . We do not know what the future will bring, we can only go to the polls, vote, and pray for peace and prosperity.

I have read the books, a couple of times, and Trump is not near as charming as Carpathia. Also Carpathia's public persona was all charm, and his private evil. Trump has this very hard business man public persona, but privately seems to be a very warm caring individual.

 

[Justmehere]

What happens after Donald Trump? Let’s say he does become president and he actually leaves in 4-8 years (or he passes away due to a natural cause.)

His contempt for every constitutional right and his desire to destroy every check and balance, will set a dangerous precedent for the future. (This is an older article but it touches a little on this. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/428932/donald-trump-constitution-ignorance)

Let's say Trump gets into office and he degrades the right to freedom of press and etc, and he manages to run a presidency that somehow has the power to instill his version of "law and order" the first day in office. The country tends to swing back in a different direction once they pick one type of leader. So it's reasonable to think they pick someone very different than Trump, who will have all these new powers, and a press that is scared to speak out against them.

What happens then?