The Double Bind - Part Ii

[shimmerz]

After all how many 10-12 year olds become suicidal (I did).

This is so tragic. But yes, he does address the suicide manifestation for the victims of this type of behaviour. It appears (and actually is) the only way out when young unless someone who is not a stakeholder removes the child from the family. And that doesn't always work out so well either, as my past attests to.

I mistakenly thought the death of my father/abuser would alter the familial dynamic, but it was not so in my case in spite of my own best efforts.

Yes, and I think this falls under what Scout is asking. I think the family dynamic simply adjusts to accommodate the loss. I have seen with my own children that one will be targeted and then something large shifts and they scramble around trying to get in the good graces of the power that is - or a new king or queen of the hive is established. And people go to the greatest of lengths to BE that new king or queen (or at least to not be the new target)

I'm guessing you misread a lot of stuff because you have no real knowledge/experience to go by.

Yeah, and i think this is why the pervasive 'misunderstood' thing that comes up with me all the time. Because I am used to dealing on a level where I am constantly fighting just to be heard. In a relationship where one is heard but doesn't expect to be there is quite a bit of testing I think, wondering what the other person is REALLY thinking, a lack of trust in oneself and others or a general shutdown in body perhaps or attempts at communication.
My SO and I have recently discussed this. He continually tells me that he has 'heard me' even though I keep repeating myself.

How do you know how to interpret them?

With great amounts of caution or perhaps in a neurotic way.

It is hard to trust the gut level feeling/instinct

Yes, I totally agree with this. Because, for me anyway, intuition did diddly squat for me. My intuition could be screaming at me that there was nothing better I could do but the external cues were 'do better - do more - attain excellence' when that literally was not possible.

And i think that was the start of my brain spinning. Because one is constantly trying to solve an impossible puzzle. How to be accepted. How to avoid pain. And in this scenario it is impossible - not just once but during the entire tenure as scapegoat.

I believe this is why I was SO good at everything I did. Such a perfectionist. So high functioning. And I always felt I was faking it. Because that program was running in the background that incessantly crowed 'What's the matter with you? You can't do anything right'. I was in fact, my own abuser. And also accepted others that were happy to chirp in and remind me of how - no matter how I tried - I couldn't get it right.

And then I broke. Now I need to get to brass tacks with it and stop it for good. No easy task. I was a good learner, unfortunately.

 

[The Albatross]

except for the "or perhaps in a neurotic way." eh? I trend toward the idea of a filter or litmus test and prefer (cuz I think it's more generally beneficial to do so) that way. No need to go out of my way to paste labels.

 

[The Albatross]

Disagree about "... one is constantly trying to solve an impossible puzzle. How to be accepted. How to avoid pain. And in this scenario it is impossible - not just once but during the entire tenure as scapegoat."

When the dynamic is revealed and found to be untenable ... then either action or acceptance are the only way forward. Sure when confronted with a no win situation, there will be a lot of spinning... but when confronted with a paradox and a no win, that's where choice comes in.

Can't really carry this discussion very far today, not available. Will come back later.

@shimmerz - as you've said this is your second run at this topic, and it's weighing on your mind clearly, what direction do you want/need to take this discussion toward to be assistive for you? Validation? Surely but is there anything else? Since you're the op, it would help me if you'd share more since I don't recall seeing your first run at the topic.

 

[shimmerz]

I identify what I feel, at least at my gut level, if possible why/ what actions 'caused' (ilicited) it.

I would be really interested in exploring this more Junebug. I have a block about your steps for some reason and that usually means that there is a ton of value in it but that there is a trauma disconnect there.

 

[shimmerz]

but when confronted with a paradox and a no win, that's where choice comes in.

Am having a hard time with some of these postings and this is one of them - not because they don't make sense but because I am still working it all out in my head.

Sometimes the paradox includes tremendous losses - losses that can be soul crushing.... is what I am thinking about this. This is part of the bind. So is it possible that it is not as black and white as 'that's where choice comes in', if one realizes that in order to walk away there may well be a mentally destabilizing element involved?

 

[The Albatross]

Losses or perceived losses "that can be soul crushing" is anticipatory stress unless or until you actually experience loss, no?

I think you answered my query in your post 28.... "why". However I've yet to find more than one person (and that one not even in my immediate familial dynamic) that could even go there. "Why" became a futile and fruitless endeavor... though I chased it for a long while and inevitably I had to come back to the present state of things. Just sayin'.

 

[scout86]

if one realizes that in order to walk away there may well be a mentally destabilizing element involved?

I'm going to start by confessing to a LOT of confusion about this whole area.

How I see it now? When you meet a person who wants to play those kind of games, you notice, recognize, and go with "That's very interesting. You know what? I think I have better things to do." and you move on and avoid them going forward.

It's apparently actually a minority of people who want to do stuff like that when they interact with others. (That's a relief!) I can't think of any reason to hang around with them and I can't think of any reason to expect there's a way to deal with them either. Other than to not deal with them.

As for those ancient, childhood mind games? Well, we really can't go back and fix that either. Was never fixable. It was a bad deal because other people had untreated, undiagnosed, uncontrolled issues.

 

[The Albatross]

Yes it can potentially be destabilizing, I am going through that now with my no contact with my mother. However, that being said, all other avenues other than continuation of my role are now/have been exhausted, I had to re-examine, not whether or not it would be destabilizing, but what was generally beneficial for us both. Moving forward for me, means no contact unless or until something changes because my familial role was unsustainable and frankly disruptive to me and my own well being. (?)

Like I said, it is confusing and a rather complicated topic (though necessary for me personally too today) so I will withdraw for a bit so as not to derail your process Shimmerz.

 

[scout86]

Yes it can potentially be destabilizing, I am going through that now with my no contact with my mother.

That's kind of another double bind, isn't it? If going no contact is destabilizing and maintaining contact is too?

 

[The Albatross]

No it is not another double bind as it is an internal driver/perception there are not more that one purveyors in the scenario. It is an inner conflict. It is a choice and either action or acceptance.

 

[The Albatross]

@scout86 - how does this apply to your last post?

1. 2 or more people - 1 is the victim (scapegoat)
2. It is repeated over and over again (not a one time thing) - it is a pattern
3. primary injunction - telling you to do something or severe consequences (may be implied)
4. secondary injunction that directly conflicts with the first injunction
5. perpetrator must have a relationship (power dynamic) over the victim

 

[The Albatross]

Okay so I need to take a break on this topic, carry on but please don't tag me.