Relationship Double Difficulty... Doing "the Love Dare" When The Partner Is Both Gone And Has Ptsd...

[illusionist]

Is this a joke???

 

[Casey_03]

That's ... ummm ... incredibly selfish of you. It just seems like you are blatantly disrespecting her wishes and assuming you know better. I've noticed that in a number of your posts. If you genuinely want to help her, you have to respect where she is coming from. It doesn't seem like you do at all. I sort of also don't understand why you're posting on a PTSD forum if any advice given to you about how PTSD works is just disregarded and you dismiss symptoms as "not real"? It's not about her reading your mind, it's about her, her state of mind, how things make her feel. Not you.

 

[The Albatross]

No, it's most likely not a joke. The opening poster is revisiting (I think) a suggestion he received that may help his present circumstances. Can't speak for the OP but hey, been there (The Love Dare)... so rings for me in Christian circles.

 

[Deleted member 17302]

That's ... ummm ... incredibly selfish of you. It just seems like you are blatantly disrespecting her w...

Considering I lived with her for years and you have not, I think I know her a bit better. It's not about disregarding the advice, but taking the advice that seems to fit HER, not just a huge PTSD blanket that not everyone fits the same way.

It's incredibly insulting that you would assume you know more about the situation specifically from a distance and to apply such a blanket set of statements to an INDIVIDUAL who is just that, and individual who exhibits the traits of PTSD in her own form, not some massive template that every single PTSD having person has for sure in the same ways. That is incredibly insulting to both her and well all of this.

 

[Casey_03]

Well I didn't claim to know her. But you are posting on a PTSD forum, and it's hugely insulting to hear you say you intend to violate her request for space just because for you, that "isolation violation thing" is not real. Good luck with that attitude, judging by that statement you've already put the final nail in the coffin of that relationship. I think she made the right decision to get the hell away from you.

 

[Sweetpea76]

Supporters don't know what they're dealing with at first. It's a learning curve. A partner isolating is confusing.

@mr_smith_v2 it is true that every individual is different, and their PTSD manifests in different ways. However there are some very common symptoms, behaviors, coping mechanisms, etc. Isolation is one of them.

From what you say, she is either isolating, or has broken up with you. Either way, she doesn't want contact right now, and is furious when you contact her. It is causing her distress.

I think it would be more helpful at this time for you to study up on PTSD in general. This Love Dare may work very well for other couples, but it seems like something that both parties need to want and participate in.

 

[Deleted member 17302]

Supporters don't know what they're dealing with at first. It's a learning curve. A partner isolating...

Actually, it is intended for when one feels like there is no point in trying and the other does feel like there is a point in trying.

Went over the entire book with a Christian friend that has PTSD and he helped figure out which ones would be too pointed and which ones would be ok to send in spaced out messages. Spaced like a week or so in between. Things that wouldn't be pushy or annoying and would just show that she still has a stable person willing to be patient with her and no bail like she feels everyone will and has.

The past things that happened showed that she can tolerate spaced messages. Even thanked me for still trying when she was going through her issues. Said it was annoying at the time but knows it was necessary and saved her life.

This complete regression is more or less like dealing with the first instance which took time and was terrifying for us both. This time I have more insight and someone that has insight and the faith we share.

I'm glad you have a more understanding look at this than the other person that said she is good to bail on me. That person needs a bit of understanding and patience work it seems.

 

[Deleted member 17302]

Well I didn't claim to know her. But you are posting on a PTSD forum, and it's hugely insulting to hear...

You really need more understanding and patience. I would suggest you work on that and if the way you act right there is any indication of how you are, which it seems to be, it might be in the best interest of your relationships to work on those two things.

Not everyone is the same. Some people cut, some people do drugs, some people gamble, some people drive to Mexico, etc. Some people are ok with spaced messages, some will not deal well with it at all.

I know my partner and how they act. You do not. You can give advice all you want, but at the end of it all, it has to be tailored to fit the person or situation it is being applied to because not all people with PTSD are the same. To treat them as such is just wrong to do for so many reasons. If you want to treat your partner like a cookie cutter person, I feel sorry for you and them. Gain more understanding and patience please. It will do everyone and you a big favor.

I'm trying to be kind here, so if you freak out, I'm going to just ignore you unless you say something that is of a better and reasonable nature.

 

[Deleted member 17302]

DAY 4

• Dare: Contact your spouse sometime during the business of the day. Have no agenda other than asking how he or she is doing and if there is anything you could do for them.

Friend with PTSD went through the entire book with me. Said day 4 dare should be waited for till she is present. Also said that he has been on both sides and knows that resistance will always happen but still the process is useful for both parties for gaining patience and showing there is an anchor point for the suffer to be tethered to when they are in the state of mind to talk and find help.

DAY 5

• Dare: Contact spouse with a message of: What are three things that cause you to be uncomfortable or irritated with me?

Friend said this one was fine and might be therapeutic for her. Sent it today with the expectation of not a great response.

• Sent txt of that at 9:43am.
• She called at 10:19 am and I didn't answer it as I was in church and wasn't going to answer a phone call yet anyhow.
• She then texted at 11:25 with: Move on ;)

Summary analysis:

Knowing her and how she acted the first time crazy crap went down and how brilliantly smart she is, I have a feeling that was constructed to aggravate and to show she was OK but without her actually being fine. A false front. She's very smart even in an altered state of mind. The phone call then time gap, then message, seems to indicate to me at least that is what was going through her head was how to reply. Somewhat expected. Also expected to receive great amounts of resistance throughout the dares. Increasing in stress for the person doing the dares each time. Apparently around day 20 it will seem very impossible, but to strive forward.

Will send another message in roughly 7 days +/- 1 day with the next applicable PTSD friendly modified message. Expecting only bad seems to help lower the stress of the dares and strengthen the resolve to stay true to it.

Learning that many people will give up very easily in marriages even without either person dealing with a severe cognitive issue to contend with. Many say things like "Why should I try to love someone that isn't showing me any respect or love?". When asked how long it takes them to give up, it was about 3 weeks even after years of marriage. This shows me that love is hard work and if you want to have a good relationship and marriage, one or both people need to fight for it even if the dang thing is on fire or drowning. Can't survive damage if you are just going to run away any time it gets hard enough that you can't see an end. We are people. We are short sighted creatures that seem to only try a little bit and say it was a lot but isn't.

An older couple, one in my family, said that there were about 2 years of terrible marriage near the beginning, but then after that patch and they fixed things up, they had a fairly happy 40+ years of marriage till the one partner died.

Considering if you have 90% of a 4 year marriage that is good and 10% that is pure hell, that still seems pretty great ratio. Even at 80% or 70% that would be pretty great. Let's look at those numbers...

4 years is 52 months * 4 years = 208 months

• 90% loving bliss / 10% hell of 208 weeks = 20.8 weeks = 5.2 months (0.43 years) of hell BUT 46.8 months (3.9 years) of loving bliss
• 80% loving bliss / 20% hell of 208 weeks = 41.6 weeks = 10.4 months (0.86 years) of hell BUT 41.6 months (3.46 years) of loving bliss
• 70% loving bliss / 30% hell of 208 weeks = 62.4 weeks = 15.6 months (1.3 years) of hell BUT 36.4 months (3.03 years) of loving bliss

NOTE: Pretty sure this challenge seems to annoy some users here, but this is to record the event for future reference. Even if it fails or succeeds, both must be taken with a grain of salt as it is ONE SAMPLE example for this challenge in the PTSD specific scenario where the PTSD sufferer is the one that bailed, and in the context of a long term relationship, where medication was stopped and flashbacks and other PTSD related phenomenon was occurring during the distancing and bail out period. That is a lot of ifs ands or butts, but that should be somewhat useful to reference.

 

[Suzetig]

My discomfort with this is that it feels controlling to me. To effectively decide that, regardless of her stated wish that you back off and move on, it's ok for you to message her in some form or other on a regular basis feels inappropriate at best and coercively controlling at worst. I'm not saying that's your intention here and I do hear the pain you're experiencing, but to unilaterally decide that you're going to do X regardless doesn't feel ok. To frame those messages in terms of saying nothing negative all day, inviting her to comment on what irritates her about you suggests a level of codependency in you that doesn't bode well for a healthy relationship.

I also don't know any relationship that divides into loving bliss or hell, generally there are moments of both dotted throughout an otherwise stable relationship. I hear you want to fight for the relationship, she was your fiancé but relationships do end - even those where PTSD is an issue sometimes end just because they end. I can't say whether she'll come back to you or not, but embarking on some kind of relationship fixing programme and recording it here as some kind of research project for future reference is something that I would consider a deal breaker for me.

 

[Deleted member 17302]

My discomfort with this is that it feels controlling to me. To effectively decide that, regardless of he...

There is no point for a forum other than to document and learn from others as well as get things out. I'm just honest about things, whereas many people hide behind crazy reasons vs the true reasons they do it for.

The book and such isn't controlling and to frame it as such is an interesting perspective you have considering a huge amount of marriage counselors and therapists agreeing with the books methods and actions and seeing it help heal marriages even they couldn't help heal in professional counceling. Also that it has worked for many many people.

Dividing the loving bliss and hell are to see the overall picture, not to state that it happens in such distinct divides. It is to show that yes, we can go through patches of crap that seem huge, but are in fact, just a tiny piece of the overall situation, and there is hope to get out of it and to not give up hope so easily and so emotionally reactively / whimsically. Love is work at times. To assume it isn't is to say that it is your partners fault for you giving up when you look at the statements of "Why should I keep loving them if they have given up loving me currently?" That is a terrifying thing to see people doing considering it is so very crazy to do.

If you treated everything so whimsically, the world would burn in a week. Things take work. Me and my boss hated each other from the get go for about 6 months. I thought I was going to hang myself in the bathroom at some point from the hell I was living in. Guess what? We worked it out and then it was great for the last 6 months till the company laid a crazy amount of people off from top management down to new crew members like I was. He didn't fix it. The management didn't fix it. I proactively worked on the relationship so that we both could resolve the issues that were causing the friction. Someone has to do it. If nobody does, then nothing good happens. If I just gave up every time I had a bad few days or weeks at work, I'd never have a job. I'd never find peace in life.

Also considering that this is PTSD forum where it is way way more difficult, this perspective that keeps getting thrown out, seems quite baffling all together. It's like you all are trying to tell people to just give up when crap gets hard.

I'm quite confused by your responses considering your position on this website when confronted with professional statistical data that shows a conflicting view.

Without documentation, memory fades. Without documentation, therapists and psychologists would be out of luck completely as they would have no trends or track records to look at to validate methods of therapy or action.

Not trying to be rude, but I'm a very logistically minded person so sometimes the conflicting responses seem to be much colder and insulting than is ever intended. I could warm it up, but I just don't have that time to sit and edit this for hours and perhaps days. We all have a different way of talking. Hopefully this is somewhat of useful reply.

 

[Suzetig]

My "position" on this website when posting here is as a member and I'm no different to anyone else.

There's no imperative on me to agree with everything or anything posted regardless of "professional statistical data" which frankly can be used to prove anything if you try hard enough. Having a relationship of 25+ years standing, I'm the last person to suggest it's not hard work and that people aren't disposable. I still however stand by my view that this "love dare" is controlling when applied to someone who has told you they need their own space.