The Double Bind - Part Ii

[Tinyflame]

I start having problems right there. Because my go to thought is that I'm "wrong" so it's hard to trust that gut level feeling.

Oh I suppose I just mean identifying if I feel badly, or unsafe vs safe, or what -have-you. I too blame myself.

your steps

I'm sorry this may not be at all useful, I can't read all the posts. In retrospect the steps may not be useful; as @scout86 said more to see if I have a 'right' to not blame myself. I.e. how would others feel about it if I did it, how do I feel / the reasons when I do it; what conclusion would the majority draw?

But even that could contain cognitive distortions- mind reading, attribution, etc.

I do realize something from this thread though: the only problems I've allowed myself to call (for myself) 'problems' are all double binds.

I also realize there's something- some corner turned, when I go against the grain of what I've experienced, & plead for help. No response to that could be a trigger, but I think rather it's something far worse. It could be a limit, but it's not that either, though for healthy people it probably should be. It's a severing of sorts. I am not sure how to explain it. It's really nothing to do with blame or expectation or trying. It's sort of like going against the double bind trying, but it was a failure & confirms even basic lack of caring. Which might be a step up from punishment or rage.. but is it really?

Hugs to all. Xox.

 

[shimmerz]

I think it IS really significant for @shimmerz.

Yes. Absolutely it is. Thank you both Alba and Scout for noticing that. I hate dragging all of my posts into 'my situation' all the time so was hoping for this thread to be more of a discussion of how this affects/ed others along the way.

I'm wondering a little if expectations, based on past experiences might not also color her interpretations of current relationships. In ways that could be either accurate and useful or not.

Yes, this will take some work on my part. The feeling that I have is that without the excessive amounts of double binds (that at times were super duper life or death) in my past, I would have hightailed it out of this family a long long time ago. Do I walk into them (as Scout alludes to)?

It feels like the can't live in a house but can't live without one is a double bind and this family thing is. And it has proven to be real. That if I attempt to face the house thing head on or if I attempt to escape the family that I will have a breakdown. Does this mean then perhaps that it is a trigger to a deeper and more serious issue? Is that what the trap is here? Something internal that is like a nuclear bomb ready to explode? No idea if that makes sense to anyone.

MY way out of the double bind was to decide that, if it's a given that I won't get it "right", then I'm going to do what I damn well please, to hell with 'em if they can't take a joke.

The question is, the thing I get stuck on, is how to break these tendencies. I get that double binds are good as well, that they can challenge us to be better or to get out of the ego, as Alba states. I have had lots of those too. They were okay.

But it pushes me to the very edge to feel that I need to not be a part of my family. That is not my choice on so many levels. It is not who I am. However, as Alba states, this situation has been unsustainable for a very long time.

I am going to leave this for a bit and try to figure out what exactly the formula is in this. What the elements of the double bind actually are. This has been a really tough thread. Thank you all for your input. I so appreciate it.

 

[Tinyflame]

I wonder if what is severed is hope?

Not sure about anyone else but I think many of us accepted the double-binds as part of the reality of our everyday existence.

((((( @shimmerz )))))

 

[shimmerz]

Assumption of negative intention directed at the scapegoat when they attempt to navigate through the situation. Dilts.

I wonder if what is severed is hope?

Yes, although with a certain personality that has the 'bang head against wall' tendency, this can be a project driven by a need to repair the character assassination that normally goes along with this type of situation. Or perhaps, due to ignorance of the position they are in (the double bind) they continue to have hope that one day they will prove to the abuser that they are able to succeed in their quest to please.

My head is floaty about this stuff right now so please forgive if this is disjointed. Just trying to figure something out here.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

if you grew up expecting double binds, what happens when you meet people who don't dish them out.

Me, I didn't know how to be those people or be around them or socialize with them so I mocked them and learned how to be in the world by mocking.

I still do that to an extent but over time you learn very, VERY, slowly how to be in this new world. Mostly with my therapist.

Disagree about "... one is constantly trying to solve an impossible puzzle. How to be accepted. How to avoid pain. And in this scenario it is impossible - not just once but during the entire tenure as scapegoat."

I don't. While in it, I was constantly trying to solve the puzzle of what I am supposed to do. I think that's why my brain still works that way; constantly trying to solve puzzles.

But if that is during the "scapegoat" time, or during the double bind, then that is exact what it was like for me.

Just speaking from personal experience.

How I see it now? When you meet a person who wants to play those kind of games, you notice, recognize, and go with "That's very interesting. You know what? I think I have better things to do." and you move on and avoid them going forward.

That's a huge step foward as I still get mixed up in their mind games, not knowing what to do.

** I haven't caught up with all the replies yet so I appologize if this isn't applicable now **

 

[shimmerz]

I was constantly trying to solve the puzzle of what I am supposed to do. I think that's why my brain still works that way; constantly trying to solve puzzles.

Yeah, this is me too. I am trying to figure out how to break the pattern because for me, I think, it may be stuck on 'figure out gear' even if there is no puzzle in the moment.

 

[The Albatross]

Trying to solve the puzzle of "what you are supposed to do" versus a self actualized life is tough. I been trying to remember how I got there. So much was going on at that time. Was really hoping that some of the heavier hitters would comment on this one.

 

[The Albatross]

I don't have anymore mini epiphanies but am still interested in this topic. For myself, I think that recognizing a double bind is important, however am sort of stuck after that. Anybody?

 

[scout86]

For myself, I think that recognizing a double bind is important, however am sort of stuck after that. Anybody?

I think what was most useful, for me, is recognizing that the presence of a double bind means you don't want to go there. And to consider that 'not going there' is a valid choice.

In the neutral version of the real world, there are situations where none of the options are good. But that's different than a true double bind. A true double bind is and artificial construct. The point of it is that it's a lose/lose situation and you can NOT be 'right', no matter what. It's set up so 'winning' isn't an option. Accepting the reality of that was really important for me. Once I knew that was the rules of the game, I figured I was free to do what ever I wanted (including refusing to play the game). During the last couple years of my parent's lives, my T OFTEN said things like "So, what do you think is the probability that there actually IS something you could do that she thinks is 'right'?" I'm glad I met my T before all that started. Well, I guess it actually 'started' when I was born, but having some outside input made that last bit a lot easier to deal with.

My theory is, "If you can't be 'right', and by definition you can't, then just do what ever it is you want. You'll still be 'wrong' but at least YOU are ok with your course of action."

 

[The Albatross]

I actually have very few double binds in day to day life outside and away from two dysfunctional families. So I'm looking back a bit I expect, and you're looking to apply it to present situations?

 

[scout86]

I guess I don't spend a lot of time looking back. What was was, but it's over and I can't change it. So, yeah, I guess I tend to take what I've learned from the past and what I'm learning now, and try to apply it to improving things going forward.

I do kind of suspect that some of the people who apparently like to create these double bind situations don't even really realize that they're doing it. It's the way they interact with the world, nothing personal.

I actually have very few double binds in day to day life outside and away from two dysfunctional families.

I think that's an important point. I think that's true because those double binds COME from dysfunction. If you're got one, you also have dysfunction. "Normal" people give you some kind of way out.

 

[shimmerz]

I haven't forgotten about this posting. Was just a tough day yesterday and am still recovering. Dilt's video I have watched a couple of times. I find it interesting that it is almost as difficult to watch as it was for me to take in the Structural Dissociation concept, so expect that getting to the answer in this will be a huge key in being able to forensically go back and reassess some situations that I had taken on that I perhaps shouldn't have. it will also, I expect give me some strategies on how to make good on what I am seeing as a double bind I am in right now.

The Dilt's video actually expresses that we can pattern ourselves to keep being in double binds - set ourselves up for it or not be aware of how to get out of one - as adults even and I think much of this has to do with our lack of skills in power dynamics. I am going to keep watching and try to clear my head on it - but yes, I believe this is a very important concept. Not just for children in these situations - I do believe adults get into them as well, especially in dysfunctional family situations.