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Publicly confronted about service dog. a disability isn't fake just because it's invisible. (vent)

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Just FYI: You can click on the post number and up will pop the link to that post so you can...

If I am OK and not struggling with triggers, I use those as teachable moments. When someone tries to distract my SD I give her the 'look at me' hand sign and when she gives me eye contact and ignores the other person I give her a treat. It didn't take long for her to realize that when somebody tried to distract her she was going to get a treat if she paid attention to me and ignored them.

We've been a team for almost eight years and she's gotten very good at not being distracted but I'm still triggered by people invading our space and interrupting her work.

PS. Thanks for the tip about linking posts! I've been gone from the forum for a really long time and everything has changed!
 
When someone tries to distract my SD I give her the 'look at me' hand sign and when she gives me eye contact and ignores the other person I give her a treat. It didn't take long for her to realize that when somebody tried to distract her she was going to get a treat if she paid attention to me and ignored them.

Yeah, I do that. I normally have to break out the higher value treats (now tiny pieces of hotdogs) and usually just the sound of the baggie it's in will get him to look at me. But if it's bad enough, keeps going and I can't get away fast enough, or if the person is very close, he will loose all focus on me and react to them.

He's only been in training a bit over 2 months. We are just barley in public access now. He was a reactive dog (super excitable) that was made worse over the time I have owned him due to being isolated so we have worked hard on that and he is doing great but there are those triggers for him too where he just can't focus back on me.

I try to always be focused on him, completely focused on him, especially if I need DPT or just feel him but there are those times.

I just wish there was some way that mass education can occur. People think it's funny and I don't get that, at all.

One guy kept circling us and I about lost my mind. I had Chopper block but that wasn't cool, at all!
 
I think the younger generation is better educated... there is hope!

I was at Target tonight and a high school age teenager reached out to pet my SD, and I simply looked up and the 5 other girls who were with her physically pulled her away and scolded her, exclaiming, "you can't pet service dogs!" ... all before I had a chance to say a thing.

I smiled and went on my way. :) As I walked off I could hear them explain to her, "it's working, don't distract the dog." She was pretty apologetic to her friends.

I wanted to give them all a big high five.

I seriously wish there was a PSA campaign about service dogs... something that went viral on social media... to help educate folks about how to act around service dogs.
 
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I seriously wish there was a PSA campaign about service dogs... something that went viral on social media... to help educate folks about how to act around service dogs.

That's what I was thinking.

Most would NEVER distract a police K9 or a search and rescue dog or a bomb detection dog, the dogs at the airport. But everyone distracts service dogs. They are all the same. Why not distract the others but distract SDs?

I was at target tonight and a high school age teenager reached out to pet my SD, and I simply looked up and the 5 other girls who were with her physically pulled her away and scolded her, exclaiming, "you can't pet service dogs!" before I had a chance to say a thing.

That's AWESOME!

I think it may be because it's more common. I have seen a few teams that's still in high school on youtube. One was practicing in her empty classroom showing how she walks between the small gaps between the desks and how her dog tucks under her chair.

I also saw one being denied access to go to class because of her SD. It was the mom that was filming. Not sure what kind of SD as it looked like a grade school so maybe autistic or sezuire alert. Not sure.

But that is an awesome story! I love to hear those instead of the constant denial of access stories I see and the people that are ignorant of how to act around a SD.
 
When I can, I do walk away. But there are also times where it helps me stay calmer to actually say something and assert my boundaries. And there are times where I can't walk away.


Yes, I totally agree.

Generarally, I am for asserting biundaries, but I do think it's also important to know when to cut my losses and walk away, if possble.

This whole boundaries issue is, to me, the crux of getting over PTSD.

I asked the person walking the dog, "please pull back your dog." He didn't. I said it again, more loudly, while pushed up against the rail... By then, his dog was barking and jumping within inches of mine,

Ok, this was more than simple boundary violation! I'd say this guy had a control issue. He's a perpetrator of sorts.

So your example @BuckarooBanzai is the smoker following you, blowing smoke in your face, won't leave you alone no matter how much you tell them you have asthma.

My example wasn't intended to mirror yours. It was intended to show how I've had to work through similar issues.

I think making that call - when to put down a hard boundary, when to let things slide, and when to walk away - that's definitely a big part of my learning process.

Possibly, this is the crux of healing. After all, our abusers harmed us by crossing our boundaires. So, learning to reality check any given boundary-crossing scenario and then act appropriately (No! Stop! Police! ... Walking away) is huge.

That's rather rude to say to someone, in my opinion.

I consider myself a 'nice guy' but I still think it totally appropriate to say, "Stop!" directly and firmly.

In fact, in your situation, I might say sharply, "Sir!! Leave my dog alone. Now!"
 
"Sir!! Leave my dog alone. Now!"

"Leave us alone" and "leave my dog alone" are two different things. There are two inside of "us".

As @Justmehere stated, people feel very entitled when it comes to a dog. "I was just trying to show love to your dog", "I was just trying to be nice" and a mirad of things people will say. And then people will become defensive. "I'm not doing anything wrong". If you then try to explain that you cannot pet service dogs, well then there is a huge indepth unwanted conversation.

And a firm "Sir/Ma'am, leave my dog alone, now" doesn't exactly win me any making friends points, which is a big issue I have, how to make friends and "be nice" with people. That statement, in my opinion, takes me further down the isolated road.

And then if you have some "no statements" before you get to this, well, we have already exhausted all the sentences that I would say.

I am not trying to argue. I am just simply trying to state that the public does not respond to not touching a service dog as you are thinking they do. They just don't. They should but they don't.
 
And then people will become defensive. "I'm not doing anything wrong". If you then try to explain that you cannot pet service dogs,

Personally, I wouldn't explain. I would just set my limit (boundary). If the person then wants to argue, well, he can argue with himself, LOL. He would soon tire of that ,and he would just end up looking like a fool.

doesn't exactly win me any making friends points, which is a big issue I have, how to make friends and "be nice" with people. T

Ah, I understand. I like to 'play nice', too. However, their are some people one just cannot play with in a healthy fashion. So, when speaking with someone who is being difficult - especially someone who is crossing my personal boundaries - I must reassess whether this is someone I want to have anything to do with. Generally, a boundary-crosser of any sort who does not respect me enough to back off when I tell him to, I label (in my head) this person as a boundary crosser, potentially unsafe, and someone I want nothing to do with. I then generally disengage. I do my best not to allow him to draw me into an argument.

I am not required to be polite to and/or make friends with perpetrators.
 
Several times when my SD was distracted by someone making kissy noises to get her attention or patting her I have either stumbled badly and injured myself or been triggered so badly that I had to go home without completing my errands.
Why do people do this?! Ugh. I have had people whistle, say "come puppy", make kissy noises... Sometimes, I just glare at the person and they stop. (I get tired always having to say SOMETHING.) Sometimes I have point blank said, "hey, knock it off, that's not cool. The dog is working." There is something so especially wrong to me about this - more than just petting alone... I dunno why. Most people know it's rude to whistle at a woman, why do it to her dog? Most of the time my dog ignores it, but sometimes she just can't. No one can... that's the whole point of their action - to get the dog's attention on THEM. Humans.

Ok, this was more than simple boundary violation! I'd say this guy had a control issue. He's a perpetrator of sorts.
That's an interesting perspective because that kind of thing happens probably at least 6-7 times a week. Sometimes multiple times a day. I am doubtful I am running into that many perps (that's a scary thought if I was!)

I think it's more of a matter of total cluelessness and lack of education.... People are usually listening to headphones and not even paying attention, and most of the time they think their dog is so cool and wouldn't it be great for our dogs to play? It doesn't even register that it's not a good idea, and as soon as they are clued into that BOTH dogs and humans could get hurt, they back off in a hurry.

I tend to qualify perpetrators as people who are actively and with intent trying to harm and/or invade. I think most of the time it's an utter lack of understanding where the boundary is and the possible harm that could be done.
but as a handler there's also this drive to protect the dog, who will be blamed for any tiny thing that goes wrong, which means the bar is always edging up and we never catch it. Y
This is very true.

I rarely have problems with little kids coming up to pet the dog, I think because most parents know kids can be rough and dogs can do anything. They are trained, but still animals. Parents will quickly tell the child, "it's working, we don't pet service dogs." I usually try to give a thumbs up sign or a smile to the parent when they do that.
It's so over-discussed that all of my non-handler friends want to talk about this like it's the main problem around SDs because "look at all these awful people taking advantage of protections for disabled people" makes a way more palatable message than "look at how much we as a society suck at protecting disabled people".
Well said.
Half of the dogs in this apartment complex are running off leash without an owner to yell at or when there is an owner and I have yelled (as they are almost always far away) "please and come get your dog" or any thing up that alley, they laugh. They think it's funny. Even when he has his vest on and they can plainly see that he is a SD in training. That's the main reason I have issues with walks here as these dogs run up and either are all over Chopper being agressive or want to play and it's impossible for me to stop it even if I go the other way, the dogs follow.
Having a dog off leash is against the apartment complex's rules and the lease but no one gives a rat's ass and if I tell the office they can't go off of what the dog looked like or even what the owner looked like, they want the apartment building & number and 99% of the time I haven't a clue what apartment they are in. So then nothing gets done. And I have been more then very direct about it. Direct does nothing. I have even had my cane out there trying to keep the dog(s) from Chopper and threatened (I would never do this, it was said to the owner as I was frustrated) get your dogs or I will hit them with my cane. I was trying to say anything to get them to get their dogs and still nothing.
That was happening here quite a bit over the past few months in my neighborhood... and then horrible things happened. To someone in a wheelchair af their dog was pushed into the street by a leashed dog that wasn't under control, and mine was attacked (her vest actually probably saved her because it covered where dogs usually attack.)

After that, I had enough. One does not hurt my dog without my moving into mama bear mode. Leashed and unleashed out of control dogs or owners didn't used to be an issue much within my apartment complex until a few months ago, but in just a few months time, I was so burnt out. I didn't know what to do...

I actually printed out the laws that explain interference with a service dog's work (even whistling, let alone having a loose dog run around) is a crime, an actual criminal act with fine and jail time in my state, and I wrote an anonymous letter to all my neighbors. (I printed 200 copies...) I started off by saying how much I love dogs, and care about their dog's and everyone's safety. I explained the dangers to pet dogs, children, the disabled, etc, by loose dogs, and how it was not only a leash violation, but a misdemeanor with jail time and fines because of how it interferes with the work of a service dogs in the neighborhood. I explained how my dog couldn't work, and how it affected my basic ability to navigate the street. I explained that my dog could attack theirs in a protective manner, and that would be bad for their dog and all who loved it, as well as mine. I explained how much service dog agencies have to raise to train a dog (usually around 20,000 per dog) and that the attacking dog's owner could be on the hook for that cost by damaging a service dogs and its training. I explained how distracting a seizure alert dog for a even second could lead to a seizure, which could kill a person. I also made it clear I would take a picture of every loose dog and send it to animal control, and ask that should they find the owner, that they press charges for interference with a service dog. I tried to be diplomatic, but was was fed up and clear. Please leash your dog and please don't let it distract or play with mine. I also included names of dog training organizations for anyone needing help training a dog...

I spoke to animal control about my concerns and handed them a copy of the law that protects service dogs beyond leash laws. To my surprise, they went to the apartment complex management themselves. That got their attention. One of the apartment complexes agreed to sent out a copy of my letter themselves. Most other nearby complexes sent out other warnings, a few shrugged it off.

But since then, for the past few months, I have not seen a single unleashed dog, and everyone with a leashed dog within a few block radius no longer allows their dog to try to come play with mine. It's been wonderful... and a whole heck of a lot safer for everyone. It probably also annoyed a few people and was somewhat precarious to be so direct... but my letter was a lot more diplomatic than I'm describing... but I will probably made a few enemies.

I was at the point I was having panic attacks seeing any other dog than my own, and I had to do something. I now no longer have panic attacks seeing other dogs. Still kinda struggling being a round other dogs though, and occasionally have nightmares about mine being attacked - and this after a lifetime around dogs.

While I went pretty over the top, and wouldn't recommend going to all the lengths I did unless someone felt so compelled... It makes me think that really, we do need a PSA campaign in the US, because people are so clueless about service dogs and unthinking. They just don't know...
 
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Personally, I wouldn't explain. I would just set my limit (boundary). If the person then wants to argue, well, he can argue with himself, LOL. He would soon tire of that ,and he would just end up looking like a fool.
I think that you've made this very clear. We who have had the experiences have been explaining, (pretty unanimously) that that's really not an effective approach. I'm glad to know if in the future you have a service dog you will know exactly how to handle this though.

However, their are some people one just cannot play with in a healthy fashion. So, when speaking with someone who is being difficult - especially someone who is crossing my personal boundaries - I must reassess whether this is someone I want to have anything to do with
That's an interesting perspective because that kind of thing happens probably at least 6-7 times a week.
Yeah, kind of exactly. You also were responding to someone who has a current focus of using the sd to reintegrate and form meaningful relationships. Which is a valid use of the dogs. If we classed everyone ignoring boundaries as dangerous potential perpetrators we would never leave the house. We've been trying to discuss useful ways of dealing with this. Probably 70% of interactions I personally deal with outside of people who we know and have been told how to interact with us involve people who are being rude or crossing boundaries/arguing with them. It really is that common.

I am not trying to argue. I am just simply trying to state that the public does not respond to not touching a service dog as you are thinking they do. They just don't. They should but they don't.
Yes. Exactly.
 
I tend to qualify perpetrators as people who are actively and with intent trying to harm and/or invade. I think most of the time it's an utter lack of understanding where the boundary is and the possible harm that could be done.

I agree. In this case, though, perhaps the man had a perpetrator personality. Perpetrators of all sorts bully those who are physically or emotionally weaker, cross boundaries, threaten, etc.. It sounds like this guy saw you and your service dog, chose to ignore your pleas, allowed his dog to act aggressively, etc.. So, perhaps he was getting a kick out of bullying you.

Now, if he had headphones on and just didn't hear you or notice what was going on, that would be different.

Leashed and unleashed out of control dogs or owners

This can be a big problem around my complex as well. Very concerning.

While I went pretty over the top, and wouldn't recommend going to all the lengths I did

I applaud your efforts. You set an appropriate boundary and stood by it.

Setting and holding appropriate boundaries is a remarkably important part of the PTSD healing process. Kudos!
 
@BuckarooBanzai - I think we will have to agree to disagree as to if he was a perpetrator who actually meant to do harm and/or invade - and same for most the people who do the same every day. Multiple times a da.

Walking over a misunderstood boundary isn't always an act done with intent to harm and being able to decipher the ill informed from the actual perps is a key skill for *my* personal recovery from PTSD - and I respect that it may be different for others.

I think I have only run into one actual perp who wouldn't stop with my dog, and two other perps who were a direct danger to me. Those persons are not allowed around me anymore. My dog was terrified of them. Most everyone else she just wants to play with rather than work. True perps she exhibits a fear/protective response - and this helps me actually function in public. It's part of what she does to help me venture out my front door every day.


A huge part of why I started training dogs for others and eventually got myself is because it gave me a ton of very positive experiences with the public by having a cute dog with me that people wanted to talk about. In fact, my own dog can "say hi" if I tell her she can, and there are a select few people I let her say hi too. (Is s her favorite command.) It helps when I choose to do it - its gives me positive experiences with strangers.

The folks that engage the dog without permission are purposefully people I seek to have a positive interaction when possible because that's part of my recovery. Boundary setting is part of it, but for me and my recovery, there is more to it than just setting boundaries. It may not be the case for others.
I think that you've made this very clear. We who have had the experiences have been explaining, (pretty unanimously) that that's really not an effective approach.
It's ironic that on this thread itself shows how passionate people can get and forthright in telling service dog trainers what to do and how.

But I love the great discussion!
 
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There is a very sweet elderly woman who lives down the street from me. One day, she stppped me in my tracks to make sure I had the right treats for my dog.

My dog began to signal with her, and I was ok... just then the woman asked to pet my dog. I gave my dog the "say hi" command and as my dog gently licked her hand and let herself be petted the woman began to cry. Right there on the sidewalk. It really wasn't about the treats. She needed comfort and connection and cared for my dog so much.

Dogs get into our hearts so deeply.
 
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