If You Didn't Have A Chance To Build A Self Before Complex Trauma

[ms spock]

This is all making so much more sense now.

No wonder I somatise so much. That is all I ever had was the way to survive was to somatise, split, dissociate, avoid, depersonalise, derealise, lie and eat. I can see why the psychologists has easy pickings with me. I was so vulnerable.

 

[biaaw677]

If you didn't have a chance to build a self before the trauma/s then how do you find out who...

Ms Spock, I cannot say that childhood sexual abuse etc is my story so you may want to ignore my answer....

I thought to add, as mysterious as connecting with my authentic self seemed, it wasn't far away at all....

Been thinking about what in reality is my authentic self for a long time now. At first I could not even comprehend the idea of it. Still am not aware of the various alters that have been created as survival strategies to cope with ongoing exposure to continual abuse. Problem for me is that I'm still forced to live in an active trauma environment. I see myself as having some inherited trauma, having some birth related trauma and being exposed to many specific and ongoing traumas from the age of two. Fundamentally I suffered neglect and abuse and continue to suffer neglect and abuse because I'm a person with physical disabilities that make me dependent on others for the entirety of my life.
What is standing out to me from this initial perusal of this particular forum is Abstact's mention of our instinctive Values and Mecomey's identification of the Soul. A while ago my therapist introduced to Maslow's Triangle as a way of describing a human beings needs, and the need for every human to feel safe and secure before personal growth can take place.as time has passed I have come to identify that there is an intrinsic zest for life that is probably in every born human being, even those that fall victim to trauma injuries from such early developmental ages. This zest for life is likely the core of the Soul and what values we instinctively hold are what likely defines the authentic self.
Reading this started by Disco Dancing Queen has inspired me to try to do some work on identifying what actual Values I hold as Abstract has mentioned; can't be doing with NLP and Visualisations in Group sessions though, I'll just try to set aside time each day to ponder the subject for a while and maybe write my Values down in a diary. To me it seems that what is in our instinctive feelings about what is right and wrong in how as humans we should behave where the authentic self exists. I need to get my Body to recognise that it should be hearing and listening to my Soul. The Soul feeds the Body even when there are difficulties in acquiring what Maslow identifies as our most basic Human Needs. Be glad to be alive because whatever Trauma we've been Victim to, being a Trauma Survivor requires the strength that comes from our Soul.

 

[ms spock]

There is a lot to it @Link Removed ! I learn more every day.

 

[TheSeeker]

I only read the OP because-surprise!-the pages of responses overwhelmed me.
But just the title of the thread pulled me in. A lack of self has been a major (one of THE major) difficulties in my slow recovery.

I sort of wondered to myself...well, what a "self" really even is. Reading that, on the surface, seems (to me at least) one of those things that should be obvious. Like one of those words that you use and understand perfectly-until somebody asks you to define the word. You can't, really, and sort of talk around it in circles until you scratch your head and say to yourself "how DO I define that word?"
Or maybe like a long-ago learned skill...maybe something like a small piece of choreography, that when somebody asks you to show them, you do it instinctually as an example but then have trouble breaking it down into pieces to demonstrate it?

None of this here is really anything I have determined to be fact, but things I began to ask myself.

I wondered to my self, if-at least for us lot- if "self" could be something, as cliche as it sounds even to me, that we chose to create.
Over time, maybe even a long time, piece by piece. Could the sense of "self" that non-traumatized (or at least those who do not suffer from PTSD/CPTSD) identify with, be less concrete than we traumatized people believe it is?
Could it be that the apparent continuity of "self" that we see in others be in part an acceptance of the fluid nature of the elusive concept of self that those others have? Perhaps in some cases, this sense of self is something unquestioned, non ruminated over, or even avoided?

I think of the Buddhist teaching of "extinguishing the boundries of the finite self" as being central in the path of seeking enlightenment.
I don't think I am supposed to link or use extensive quotes in these forums, but if anybody is curious about differing concepts of the "self" I would encourage you to do an online search for "Buddhism and the self". I wonder if exploring what we identify as "the self" could be a good tool for some of us? I think it is for me. Accepting that-at least for me-it does not ultimately matter what my diagnosis is. Maybe this will be a part of me that I must learn to navigate through all my life-but that i can still heal, and continue to have more and more good days. Maybe a key for me is to continue to work on practicing mindfulness. The idea of "unclinging" (I believe also happens to be a practice of Buddhism).
Can we observe these feelings we have without clinging to them and getting pulled into their undertow, to observe these thoughts/feelings/beliefs as observing a black hole, but keep clear of the event horizon?

I feel like this could be a huge help for some of us in here on our paths to healing and learning to love ourselves-maybe even for the first time ever. I don't know...it's certainly something to consider, I think.

Thanks for reading...know that you are not alone.

 

[biaaw677]

There is a lot to it @Link Removed

Link Removed
Yes, "there is a lot to it"! At least the number of replies in this thread demonstrates how many of us have problems defining and identifying the authentic self. Perhaps the problem is simply that because our traumas started prior to a certain level of biological/cognitive development the process of developing our authentic selves was damaged to the extent that we will never be able to fully know what our rightful selves are. Depressing! Perhaps we need to console ourselves by recognising just how strong and resilient we must be to have come through all that has been inflicted upon us? We feel and react the way we do because we have suffered injuries, neglect and other abuse. As survivors we just have a different outlook and way of coping with life.

I only read the OP because-surprise!-the pages of responses overwhelmed me.
But just the title of the...

Will certainly look at "Buddhism and the self", especially as the therapist whom I hold in great esteem but no longer see also looks towards Eastern therapeutic methods.

 

[The Albatross]

Irrespective of Buddhism... the idea of creating identity by over-writing old/damaged/hurtful experiences with more beneficial ones is pretty much universal... it takes, however a certain frame of mind to be willing to start with a blank canvas.

 

[Deleted member 44394]

What I seem to be struggling with is emotion desregulation, among other things. And all of the crap that I did in between time in the mean time after my trauma and when I began healing, just earlier this year. It's like - how do you come to terms with all that?
Some of the things that I did, I was crazy or just out of my mind when I did it...it doesnt' even seem to fit in with my character, or personality; which is mildly disturbing to me. I'm talking things like sex, acting out, being promiscuous or just making all around 'bad' decisions when you're feeling bad or at a time of your life. There seems to be a period in my 20's where I just broke from what I was and wasn't even me. Then, I came back home with family and feel my self coming back, a basic sense of self that I thought I'd lost or had become so corrupted I'd thought I lost it, never to return. My life really does feel like a "kaleidescope" sometimes. .. It's kind of hard to integrate or make sense of.

To answer your question, I believe in each of us there is a sense of 'self' that we can come back to, that is us. No matter who you are, your heart guides you. Let it in - to let it guide you. There is an uncorrupted self in each of us, no matter what trauma.

 

[Rose White]

I am reading Pete Walker's book "Complex PTSD: From surviving to thriving". It is very helpful and he talks about this.

He says that if you grow up in a dangerous family, rather than your ego developing in a healthy fashion, it aligns with your superego, which is the part that learns the rules in order to gain acceptance. The superego develops first, but if you never get the acceptance you need then you align your sense of self with perfection, as your drive for acceptance kicks into high gear. This leads to cycles of striving and crashing, which inevitably leads to depression, shame, and self-hatred. On top of that, many abused children align their identity with that of their abusers. So the sense of self is wrapped up in criticism toward the self and concern for the abusive parents who actually deserve the criticism.

The first step, according to Walker, (after separating from the abusers) is noticing the inner critic and also noticing the positives and accomplishments. Then confronting and rejecting the inner critic while continuing to list the positives. Only when the critic has been addressed can the emotions toward the abusers be felt in an authentic, healing way because otherwise the critic will attack through self-hate and self-disgust whenever self-compassion or protective anger are felt.

So the self develops regardless of the abuse, it seems, but is not authentic if it is parasitized by or entwined with the identities of the abusers.

This perspective has helped me to understand a little more what it is that I'm "searching" for. My self is already there, it seems. I want to stop criticizing it and notice the positives that it participates in on a daily basis. After I reign in my critic and build a mantra of my accomplishments, then I can allow myself to begin the grieving work that feels so long overdue and which holds hope in recovering a sense of self that supports and encourages me without hesitation.

 

[biaaw677]

Irrespective of Buddhism... the idea of creating identity by over-writing old/damaged/hurtful expe...

Don't think we should "overwrite experiences with more beneficial ones". Surely it is about recognising our experiences for what they are/were and then growing from them by recognising how they made us who we are. Yes we need to experience more good things but perhaps we can identify and recognise those good things all the more particularly due to what bad things we have endured. Creating adapting our schemas with new ways of seeing/acting/behaving to new situations should not deny what terrible things we have endured and survived.

What I seem to be struggling with is emotion desregulation, among other things. And all of the crap that...

If the abuse started before the self developed in the first place it is illogical to expect to "feel self coming back". Don't you think you need to develop the self based upon what seems to be your natural inclinations/values etc. It is about recognising and connecting to your feelings, emotions and body sensations.

 

[ms spock]

If the abuse started before the self developed in the first place it is illogical to expect to "feel self coming back".

That has been the whole crux of the problem.

 

[ms spock]

To answer your question, I believe in each of us there is a sense of 'self' that we can come back to, that is us. No matter who you are, your heart guides you. Let it in - to let it guide you. There is an uncorrupted self in each of us, no matter what trauma.

What you are writing here is completely irrelevant to the opening post in this thread, which I wrote.

I am not interested in people's "beliefs" which are just fantasy in relationship to my actual lived experience.

I have no uncorrupted self to return to. I never developed through any developmental stage without significant abuses simultaneously. When I return to what is "me" under all that abuse, I want to not be here. I want to kill myself. I want to no longer have to live warding off so much pain. All I want to do is eat and eat. Because food was my family, my friend, my comfort, my way of regulating emotions, my way of numbing myself out, my way of rewarding myself, my way of experiencing a sense of self. So my "real self" is one that is obese and constantly eating. Or I am constantly rescuing and taking care of people - and that is a whole other world of shit. But I was my sisters and brothers caretaker from a very young age. So being used and abused feels like home for me. I let people do it to me. I train them to do it to me. I have currently spent two weeks living away from my home, so as not to let myself fall into this trap again, when I found yet another person lied to me and deceived me, and I let them lie to me, despite knowing they were lies because you never question the lies.

Your romantic notions of the uncorrupted self are really annoying and feel quite disrespectful to my actual lived experience. Please go and open a thread of your own if you want to talk about it.

There is no uncorrupted self to return to when you were sexually, physically, emotionally etc abused from the time you were a baby. The major self wants to end my life because all the pain I have had to deal with during my life is too hard, and all the life I have to deal with now is too painful, and all that I have to deal with in the future is just overwhelming. Sitting without eating, or distracting, obsessively thinking, ruminating, maladpative daydreaming is really a challenge. My self is full of a lot of shit, self destructive behaviours, self harming behaviours, distorted congitions, and that feels like "home". So I am choosing to create another set of selves.

I don't really believe in parts, but I do have a split in me, and once I disappeared for two years and came back and wondered where had I been those two years. So your uncorrupted self is of no value to me at all, and it makes me want to shout in frustration. Lucky you to have had a pre trauma self to return to - not part of my story.

 

[ms spock]

I don't just have experiential avoidance - I haven't experienced my experiences. I am so cut off from myself/selves whatever. Not the part selves but the selves you have as you move between different roles in life.

Mostly won't trust my own gut on things. I don't believe myself. I doubt myself and double guess myself.

Then the problem is that I go from saying nothing to saying everything way too fast for most people.

Anyway I have just got to do it. And I find that hard.