Dom Violence I want to attempt leaving

[courelly]

So, you have to take care of ALL needs, even emotional! I thought you said you didn't have a child. (K...

:laugh: Oh man, that really does hit close to home. I do feel like I have a kid sometimes! And sometimes I feel accountable for taking on that role, like maybe I'm getting something out of the care-taking even though it's the equivalent of caring for a tornado? Like I constantly feel in harm's way, but I'm still attempting to cradle a literal tornado in my arms. That makes me feel like I'm a crazy person! And I think that's the part my friends are tired of and worried about.

Thanks for pointing out the part about him changing my thoughts on why I'm leaving (or wanting to leave). I feel certain in my gut that the right thing to do is leave, and I feel like he's telling me I'm wrong about that gut feeling, and if I'd just hear his side of it a little longer I would understand that.

 

[mumstheword]

Sounds like classic manipulation tactics to me, I feel a little, ok a lot, like an expert in those. I stayed with my manipulative, abusive ex for 21 years, until I knew it was going to end me. I get the how hard it is to leave. They say what they know you want to hear, to keep things the way they are, in my experience.

I got out at 37 and have a wonderful caring, loving relationship with a man 6 years my senior, now.

My ex did come to marriage counselling once, not helpful. In order for that to work, both people need to be willing to be painfully honest and accountable and both people need to care for, and respect the personal boundaries of the other; your partner clearly has no respect for yours and knows he can guilt and sympathy you into whatever he wants. He's already passing the buck by saying "we don't have the tools". Where and when has he ever truly taken responsibility for his actions and the terrible way he treats you?

He is exploiting your caring and responsible character and I think you really do know this is true.
Getting out is hard and takes extraordinary strength, courage and steely commitment to care more deeply about your own well-being than you have previously. He won't. Mourn what will never be, because he's proven.that he's just not trustworthy.

In order to be trustworthy he would need to develop integrity, accountability, good boundaries, reliability, kindness and generosity of spirit and he would need to show you he was beginning his journey towards developing a trustworthy character by being gracious, kind, generous and considerate enough to let you go. If he's too selfish and lazy and mean to even do that, then do you really think a marriage counsellor can magically bestow those qualities on him?

It's "magical thinking", a form of cognitive distortion, to think that he's really serious about becoming the kind of person you can build trust with, at this point.

I'm so feeling for you, it's a really horrible and really tough situation to be in and no doubt recovery will be arduous and need to be a focus for you when you get out, if you're anything like me.

We are here for you though.:hug:

 

[courelly]

Sounds like classic manipulation tactics to me, I feel a little, ok a lot, like an expert in those....

It is so comforting to hear that you found someone you are happy with after leaving your situation. I know that shouldn't be a priority or goal of mine, but a big fear is that I'm now somehow damaged goods or unlovable due to being worn down in a toxic relationship for too many years.

He's not trustworthy and I don't trust him. Maybe he has the ability to be a good partner to someone else, but I can't see him being that person with me, and he has not taken full responsibility for his actions. He has a habit of taking responsibility for the obviously violent or verbally abusive things he's done, and then adding that he can't take "all" of the responsibility because it's so taxing on him and that we both have so much to work on.

 

[scout86]

He really wants to go to couple's, but I've been scared of it because I don't want to be manipulated further into staying.

That's a legitimate concern.

The story of how I came to be married to this guy is too long to tell here. And kind of complicated. Let's just say it wasn't the best decision I've ever made. He'd been married before. He wanted to do some couples therapy before we got married. I wasn't real fired up about it, but went along with it because I couldn't see a good reason not to. As it turned out, the person he picked was a person he knew. When his first marriage ended, he was accused (according to him) of being an alcoholic, among other things. This particular T was a guy he saw at that time, who basically believed everything my ex told him. (He could be very persuasive.) So, when we went to see him together, the T wasn't exactly neutral. I could see what was going on. Probably should have been a red flag. I've learned a lot about narcissists and psychopaths since then. LOL

But, couples therapy can be good. Just pick a good T and someone who will be neutral. The one we saw at the end, saw each of us alone a couple times, then several sessions together. There were a lot of things where I'd wondered if I was seeing things accurately that became a lot clearer with someone else in the room, who was capable of seeing what was going on.

 

[courelly]

That's a legitimate concern.

The story of how I came to be married to this guy is too long to tell her...

I set up a consult with a therapist and privately disclosed up front that I want to leave the relationship, but his intention is to make it work. She seems qualified and accustomed to situations like mine, and I'm hoping it will give me some closure and turnaround to make the choice I need to. If it isn't headed in that direction, I can always choose another one.

 

[Sheila_a]

It's possible he's just begging to keep his meal ticket, but he goes on and on about how he's trying so hard and he just doesn't know how to communicate, he doesn't have the tools, or rather "we" don't have the tools, and please can I just spend a couple months doing couple's therapy so that I don't leave him "in pain" and if I ultimately choose to leave it can be on "good terms" because we are both "good people."

Having read your posts I assume you know what you are dealing with. And if he has npd or is a p. - and that's how it sounds after all what you were describing - then the answer must be No: He will not allow that you to leave on good terms, he will do everything to make you believe you are leaving him in 'pain'. Just because that's part of the devaluation cycle, part of the game. And he will be especially good in 'recovering' really fast and look for another target to suck the lifeblood out of. They are thriving on other peoples pain. Yes, I also agree that t with them most often will be used as a way for further manipulation. He is already eroding your boundaries, pushing further little by little.

Thank you for saying this, because I think it's one excuse I've used to give up. Even if this isn't true, I don't feel young or desirable anymore, everyone my age is newly married with kids, and I've generally felt scared of "starting over" in a culture that greatly values things I don't have (youth and babies). And it's not even that I don't want kids, actually, but I have taken great precautions to avoid having kids with someone who could potentially abuse them.

I recently read in a book from Barbara Sher, that women over 40 and 50, and you seem a little younger, nowadays have the best time yet ahead of them. She convincingly explains why and I think she's right on target!

We shouldn't forget that this kind of abuse is also influencing our hormone and cell balance in a frightening way and ads on a kind of physical addiction, that makes it especially hard to take action. Our brains 'learn' we shouldn't fight. Maybe you can work out a plan for the next time, which for one provides you with protection, but also cuts your way back off? A plan, where the thinking has been done ahead, so that you don't have to think - and consequently act upon that distorted thinking, which it usually is because you are in cold turkey - when you are in that state of pain after leaving.
Have you read 'Psychopath Free'?

 

[littleoc]

Having read your posts I assume you know what you are dealing with. And if he has npd or is a p. - and...

Wow, this is extremely helpful, and I'm not the one you were advising -- thank you

 

[courelly]

Having read your posts I assume you know what you are dealing with. And if he has npd or is a p. - and...

Thank you for all of this. I am 32, so if I were to get out soon enough, I still have time to potentially start my own family, etc, even if it's without a partner. Unfortunately I can already sense my current partner working his boundary-eroding narcissism on me. He tries to talk about the future and where "we" are going to live, what "our" kids might be like, and more inclusive language that goes completely against what I said I wanted to do (leave). He's also in that stage in which he experiences miraculous-seeming self awareness, talking about how he pushes people away due to feeling unwanted by his parents, and how he feels lesser for not having a career or money, and bullies me in order to feel more important. And in his own words, it's one thing to recognize what he's doing, another to refrain from doing it. I wish this never-ending cycle of me believing that he's "trying so hard" would end. He's self-aware today, but he could call me a c*nt tomorrow. I know this, yet why do we stay? Lundy Bancroft answered that question, "Why Does He Do That," now I'm left with the question, "Why am I still doing this to myself?" Years of therapy and reading haven't answered this question for me, and I'm so hoping there's a point that I stop intellectualizing it and take the action that's necessary. "Psychopath Free" I haven't picked up yet, but I'm definitely going to put it on my list.

This is going to sound ridiculous, but are there any "example plans" out there for an exit?

 

[Teasel]

There's this wiki how, seems to cover a lot of bases.

now I'm left with the question, "Why am I still doing this to myself?

Me too :hug:

 

[Muttly]

This is the best place I know of to get a sample plan and other resources.

 

[scout86]

I think you had a pretty good plan.

My suggestion would be to consider your own weaknesses. How is he going to try to get you to change your mind? Then set things up so he can't.

I actually knew I was leaving a little while before I did. I made copies of important papers etc. I got a credit card in my own name. I got a PO box. The night I told him I was leaving, I had friends expecting me. If I hadn't shown up, they would have checked to find out why. (They were more worried about my ex being a physical threat than I was.) I figured out what I was going to say, said it, and left. Didn't tell him where I was going. Counted on him being too proud to call all my friends looking for me. (He was. But they'd have lied if he'd called.)

If I hadn't been 100% sure I could walk out of the house, I'd have left when he wasn't there. Or, I'd have gone to work and not come back. Left him a note or something, so I didn't have to listen to the whining.

You know, that night, sleeping on a not very comfortable couch, I had the best night's sleep I'd had in years. Seriously. And the feeling like I had the rest of my life ahead of me and could live it any way I wanted? Priceless. And I was older then than you are now.

Do you seriously want to spend the rest of your life like this?

 

[desiderata310]

So I read through everything here and I picked up on a few things. You mentioned that you were disappointed in the lack of 'help' from the DV advocate. I can tell you that it's possibly because of this:

I'm at a phase in which I want to attempt to leave (again). I've made genuine efforts to leave five times in the past in the five or so years

They have seen women come in and out of their door looking for advice but not ready to move forward. There's a number of reasons for that but you hit on probably one of the more common reasons right here.

It's that I'm afraid of retaliation.

Once I even lived with my mom for about three months, after he threatened me with a gun and grabbed me and lifted me from the ground by my shoulders.

So I want you to look at this:
Cycle of Abuse
I'm sure by now you've figured out that this is not going to get better. It's likely to get worse.

*Sigh*
I have gone through all of this. Not as prolonged but I've gone through it.
It took him choking me unconscious, threatening everyone I loved before I finally got my shit together.
It doesn't have to be like that for you.

My plan was last minute to be sure and was come up with on the fly at work. I had children involved.

If you want a PLAN, go back to the advocate or to the local women's shelter, or even to your GYN and make it clear that you're ready to go and need help making a plan and a safety plan. Get only what you MUST have immediately. Like someone said, make copies of important documents, etc. Then LEAVE. Do it while he isn't home. Anything you need to remove can be removed LATER with a police escort or with the help of a protection order which will require him to be away.

The day I left, I came home from work, made dinner, made up an excuse to take the kids out to go shopping for clothes (it was the beginning of the school year). I called the kids' dad to take them over the weekend (it was a Friday thankfully). I had NOTHING but the clothes on my back and the stuff in my car. I spent the weekend fielding terrible texts from him, till I finally blocked him.

I am not going to say it was easy. It wasn't. But I had spent the last year wanting to leave, with things getting progressively worse. I had said I wanted a divorce over and over for months but I couldn't get him to leave. I had 'left' several times before but wound up going back.

I lost a lot through all of it.

I gained more than I lost.