Do narcissist parents have children for supply?

[Dana1010]

I've heard of molesters having children for the sole purpose of sexually abusing them, as horrifying as that sounds. Do narcissist parents sometimes have children so they can "groom" them to be narcissistic suppliers to them? For instance, they might oppress them and put them in humiliating situations or otherwise try to "keep them down" to provide a narcissistic hit to them. Is this a thing?

 

[user27357]

cant speak in general terms but yeah. I think my father had kids to complete the american all star guy mold. High school in the fifties, married by 1960, job, home, kids. always mowed the lawn, always washed the car, hair high and tight and a correct tie at the correct length.

He never got over being afraid of what the neighbors might say, he never wanted a child for anything but completing his requirements as an all star american. He never thought of us as anything more than reflections on him. I never cared what the neighbors said about us and i got damned sick of listening to him talk about them and their kids and how they reflected on them.

 

[Friday]

If there’s a human depravity out there, someone somewhere, does it on purpose.

Since many zillions of non-NPD parents have children because they want the unconditional love of a child, one would have to imagine its a fairly common for motivator for narcissistic & NPD parents, as well. One would also have to imagine it’s a bit of a gamble/risk for them to take, as a child can take attention off of them, as much as landing it; pregnancy is notorious for destroying figures; and children are energy & attention sinks/blackholes. (Other people’s attention, their own physical self, their own attention). So I wouldn’t be surprised if having a child for adoration-purposes is actually lower in NPD-land, than with neurotypical selfish/ self centered/ & or abusive parents.

Just using common sense & reasoning, here, rather than looking up the research on it. So I could just as easily be wrong.

 

[EveHarrington]

I’m sure it happens given that many people have children for selfish reasons.

 

[Dana1010]

One would also have to imagine it’s a bit of a gamble/risk for them to take, as a child can take attention off of them, as much as landing it; pregnancy is notorious for destroying figures; and children are energy & attention sinks/blackholes. (Other people’s attention, their own physical self, their own attention). So I wouldn’t be surprised if having a child for adoration-purposes is actually lower in NPD-land, than with neurotypical selfish/ self centered/ & or abusive parents.

But what if they simply didn't give their children any of that attention and energy they need? What if they purposely held them down and made them into sad, pathetic people so that they could feel superior to them? Like if the child accomplishes something or they "shine" in any way, the parent will have a meltdown and come in and cut them down. It's a need to feel better than others through keeping them down rather than raising yourself above them. Is that narcissism or sadism? A bit of both?

 

[Friday]

I’m not a huge fan of justification by diagnosis... and here’s why:

1. It very rarely matters to me what led someone to do f*cked up shit to me. What matters are the f*cked up things they did. That doesn’t change, regardless of what their diagnosis is. It’s not like it’s better or worse because of their diagnosis.

The same way that being run over by a car doesn’t change the injuries a person has if the driver was sober rather than drunk. The injuries are the same. Because they got run over by a car.

2. There is nothing unique to any diagnosis. So it’s not like knowing that someone with NPD did this to me, so “all” I have to do is avoid NPD people, because there’s one specific group of people who does f*cked up things to other people. The exact same action can be done by someone with another disorder, or just by some asshole with no disorder whatsoever.

It’s like focusing on the shoes someone was wearing when they were raping me doesn’t actually help me avoid rapists. Because anyone can wear those shoes.

What if they purposely held them down and made them into sad, pathetic people so that they could feel superior to them? Like if the child accomplishes something or they "shine" in any way, the parent will have a meltdown and come in and cut them down

This right here? Is the important bit, imo. That’s what they DID. That’s the kind of person they are. Someone who would do that.

Why they are someone who would do that? Only matters if they want to change who they are, and that’s between them & their therapist. Whether they’re a child abusing asshole with NPD, or a child abusing asshole with dyslexia I couldn’t give 2 f*cks about. They’re a child abusing asshole. It’s not like their diagnosis changes what they did, or the effects it has had, or what has to be done to deal with it.

 

[Fadeaway]

I just know that my grandmother didn't try to have children as it was a time before birthcontroll and she was married at 15 due to being pregnant, but she took advantage of being a stage mom living near hollywood.

She didn't want grandchildren or great grandchildren, as my existence was a horrible burden on her, but she soaked up the praise for taking in a child no one wanted, because it was so difficult to be saddled unexpectedly with a child in her advanced age of 47 (approx) *dramatic swoon*

 

[Suzetig]

I’m with @Friday in that I think labelling abusive people detracts from their responsibility for their behaviour. Someone with a personality disorder remains fully accountable for their own behaviour unless they are shown to lack legal capacity - so if someone with narcissistic personality disorder treats someone like shit, they choose to do that. Yes, the disorder may mean they see the world in a particular way, which may underpin their behaviour but they remain responsible for their actions.

People have children for all kinds of reasons, many of them selfish. In over 20 years of working in child protection I can count on one hand the number of people I believe honestly set out to hurt their children. Most people want to care and parent their kids but just don’t know how to do that or have the resources (material, psychological or financial) to do it. Some act out of their own pain or abuse but the vast majority love their kids to some degree.

I also think the actual incidence of NPD (ie not armchair diagnosed) is much lower than we’d like to think. So back to the original question, I’m sure there will be instances of people with NPD having children for their own ends but I suspect it’s pretty rare. Most abuse is carried out by feckless parents.

 

[Dana1010]

They’re a child abusing asshole. It’s not like their diagnosis changes what they did, or the effects it has had, or what has to be done to deal with it.

I totally agree with this. However, I can't help but want to understand the disorder Just knowledge for knowledge's sake, I guess.

I also think the actual incidence of NPD (ie not armchair diagnosed) is much lower than we’d like to think. So back to the original question, I’m sure there will be instances of people with NPD having children for their own ends but I suspect it’s pretty rare. Most abuse is carried out by feckless parents.

I totally agree that armchair diagnoses are way out of proportion to the real thing. True NPD is like a hard drug addiction, I think. The narc will actually destroy their own lives for steady supply.

However, I think you may be falling for the smoke and mirrors tricks of some of those parents. In a narc's world, it's always someone else's fault, a mistake, a misunderstanding, ect, etc, etc. They're disguise artists. So I don't believe for a minute that abuse happens because parents are "feckless."

 

[Suzetig]

However, I think you may be falling for the smoke and mirrors tricks of some of those parents.

I don’t think so, if a parent is abusing their child purposefully it means they’re abusive, not that they’re narcissistic. There are many drivers for abusive behaviour of which narcissism is just one and to be honest it doesn’t much matter in law whether a parent is unable, unwilling or uncaring - it’s the impact on the child that determines whether they are at risk.

I wonder if folk want a NPD diagnosis because accepting that some perfectly “ordinary” people can and do mistreat their children for no apparent reason.

 

[TruthSeeker]

But what if they simply didn't give their children any of that attention and energy they need? What if...

True narcissists (NPD) will appear around others to help a child, be there, turn vulnerable ones in miniature likenesses of themselves and claim all the glory for their successes and ignore the child’s successes if the narcissist is threatened or ignored by the child’s successes.

Manipulation is key- and being an adult with NPD provides power and control needed by the nacrissistvso they can get their narcissistic energy met. That’s what I see happening to my grandson, anyway. This is just my opinion- supported by several books I have read.

 

[joeylittle]

Do narcissist parents sometimes have children so they can "groom" them to be narcissistic suppliers to them

Its more likely that they have children because it fits into their image of who they are - the center of the universe with planets orbiting them. Children can be some of those planets. But it’s not the same as a motivation to foster dependency - in the case of parents and children, that’s more likely to be anything from a borderline-type trait, to munchausen by proxy, to god knows what-all else.

It's a need to feel better than others through keeping them down rather than raising yourself above them. Is that narcissism or sadism? A bit of both

Thats more along the lines of sadism. The narcissist can’t conceive of their needs ever being second. So, they don’t really need to create a population that they oppress. They’re already in the center.

They can be quite abusive, though, when their world-view is threatened - which happens often with children. Children are the center of their own universe for a stretch of time, developmentally. That can lead to conflict.