News Reverse classism/being afraid of germany or germans

[Never_falter2]

Actually this topic (reverse classism) does always stress me... and I have other stress in my life, yes. My vet is not feeling well... actually he told me he might have a nervous break down and hurt himself. Apart from that I am planning...or not planning... a menu for guests, not planning because I have not done anything while I should have been doing something... apart from that on of our sons acts out in daycare... apart from that I worry about a relative who has been sick, apart from that I have been asked to help in church and have to tell them that I will not do so but do not know how... apart from that i spend tooooo much time on this thread... apart from that I am worried because in the last weeks two persons on this board felt attacked by me when this was not my intent...
But even if I had none of this stress in my life I would still think that reverse classism is bad.

 

[joeylittle]

This time it was about royality, you know, I am not royality but it was the first reverse classist comment I came around since I made that choice to educate people again (first time I made that choice it ended very wrong and people started making fun if me).
See, I understand why for you this is no big deal... and you think maybe royality is a bit funny anyway and why not use them for a joke. See I cannot say how royality is seeing this cause I am not royality.
But in my class we are often at the butt of jokes and I know how it makes me feel. I wanna cry my eyes out.

Cultural context is so interesting.

Americans have variations on this colloquial expression - "acting like Royalty". Colloquially, to say that someone is acting like they're a king or queen is considered equivalent to saying they were acting like others were beneath them. It has a context as an American expression, considering we made a big deal out of setting up something different than a monarchy.

I think the concept of royalty has different contexts, largely depending on how one/a society has related to it. I'm happy to learn about the way other societies relate to it - but I also don't expect to stop relating to the concept the way it applies inside of the society/nation I live in.

When you say 'educate people' - I think, you can always share your viewpoint. Provide information. But in an international conversation, I'm not sure how it would ever be more than that - an exchange of viewpoints.

And apparently, there are rules about how members of the British royal family can/should comport and conduct themselves. I think all upper classes have 'rules', written or un-written...some noise was made about the colors of nail polish that it was OK for Megan Markle (nee Duchess of Sussex) to wear, according the Queen's preferences. I do kind of think that's nutty...I don't think it's classist for me to say so. The Queen of England is a public figure - people are always going to applaud or critique what she and her family do...then again, my view on that is super-duper america-f*ck-yeah-freedom-of-speech and all that.

Oh, I dunno, I can't make sense of what I'm trying to say...I'm simultaneously sorry, @Never_falter, for you being of a class that is often the butt of jokes, and feeling vey badly about it; I'm sorry for that, it must suck. I'm sorry, and also frustrated, because I think there are cultural contexts in play, here, and I think you're making some false equivalencies.

Random side note: it is against the law (since the 17th century?) for the royal family to involve themselves in politics - something I was unaware of until this little tidbit about the recent referendum in Ireland

[FG Senator Catherine Noone]has deleted a tweet that said the Duchess of Sussex, Meghan Markle, was pleased by the result of Ireland’s abortion referendum...As a member of the royal family, [she] is prohibited from speaking publicly about politics.

FG Senator deletes tweet claiming Meghan Markle approved of abortion vote

I can imagine it being a lot for Megan M. (coming from America) to have to absorb these kinds of rules, this level of scrutiny.

apart from that I am worried because in the last weeks two persons on this board felt attacked by me when this was not my intent...

When you set out to teach people that their opinions are wrong, they will not respond positively. Especially when you've misconstrued their meaning. It's actually better to think in terms of expressing your own, letting others express theirs, and agreeing to disagree.

But even if I had none of this stress in my life I would still think that reverse classism is bad.

Asking this not to stress you out....but I'm curious why you call it reverse classism - it's just classism, isn't it? Especially if you are interested in changing it. Calling it 'reverse' implies that you are trying to preserve the class hierarchy, which I'd think, doesn't help the class issue, generally.

 

[Never_falter2]

See, in Germany we actually do not have classes like they do in GB. We are all the same, we do have no class privilege. That has been abolished.

 

[Justmehere]

I have visible disability (other than PTSD) and I face discrimination and stupid comments and treatment on the basis of that disability. When I’m in a good place, I work for equality and I’m not easily shaken by stupid stuff people do and say.

When I’m in a bad spot, and my own stress cup is overflowing (and all people have stress cups), any amount of crap about disabilities can get to me. I can also begin to be wary of it happening where it might not be happening.

It’s gotta hurt to be put down based on being in this or that class. Classism is real. You took on the goal of a dialogue about the dangers of classism and to help people have a fuller understanding of your nationality. That’s a good thing.

The one glitch: you saw people fearing and disliking your class and nationality even here on this forum... when they didn’t.

Especially because you have experienced so much crap for this and life is stressful right now, when you get a chance, I encourage you to take a step back and notice, really notice, that instead of anyone here rejecting you based on class or nationality, instead of people doing what you fear, you have received acceptance and dialogue.

Part of dealing with people unfairly and negatively stereotyping people is to recognize where it is happening, and where it’s not happening. It can lower stress levels and help to become more effective in handling stereotyping when it does happen.

 

[ILoveLife]

I've been observing this thread.
I think the issue your putting forth is generalization, regardless of class.
It's a very human thing, generalization, ever since there were other humanoids on the planet.
We generalized all Neanderthals and other species of humans, to the point where we were the only ones left.
Is that the human trait you're warning us about?
If not and I'm sleepy so I might be off here, I apologize.
If it is, class is actually a consequence of it and not the other way around.

 

[Never_falter2]

Nope, I did not see them disliking Germans. I thought she felt stressed by them and wanted to help, I misunderstood the comment she made about going to Germany.
See, I didn‘t call you reverse classist. I am sorry if it looks like this. I saw a comment I did not like and it was maybe a bit unfair to pick on this comment cause it was a little bit thoughtless and not more. I did not want to say this was the worst form of classism ever.
I said the comment was not fair. People did not seem to understand me, so I started a thread about reverse classism and why I think it is bad.

And in all honesty I still think that the comment was not fair. Just replace royality with blacks or Jews or working class persons in the comment and you see why.

 

[Never_falter2]

@Sietz Yes, exactly this. I am warning about the dangers of generalization and also about the dangers of misinformation when you read about people in the yellow press and think we know exactly how they are.

 

[somerandomguy]

Just replace royality with blacks or Jews

Wow, no. Just ... No. No. Absolutely the hell not.

Royalty has been exactly the opposite of oppressed thoughout history. Just because a few royals have been on the wrong end of revolutions does not make them oppressed as a class.

When millions of royals are rounded up, tortured in the absolute most inhumane ways possible, enslaved, and ultimately killed once their usefulness is over ... then we'll talk.

But you have now officially taken your argument into dangerous, wrong, and stupid territory. Frankly, you owe a lot of us an apology.

 

[Never_falter2]

Actually royals have been killed and tortured and that has also been true for little children royals who wanted to have nothing to do with their class and lived in cloisters such as in Russia.

Well, it was not millions of royals who had been killed there because there were no millions of them in Russia... but millions of noblemen and rich farmers have been killed and tortured there.

 

[somerandomguy]

What is it the mods say? Use the block feature? Ok, don't mind if I do.

 

[Never_falter2]

Somebody asked what I mean by reverse classism. I simply mean classism that is directed against groups see as rich or privileged for whatever reason.
I am opposed to heritable privilege and I think if a person has privilege in their life they should use it to help those less fortunate but I also do think that it is not okay to insult or even hurt (kill, torture, whatever) people better off.

 

[EveHarrington]

...here “daycare” is a lower/middle class thing. The upper class has nannies.