Childhood Voyeurism

[ILoveLife]

My father once coersed me to have a shower in his house, wanted to watch me and did for a while. He also forced kisses on the mouth and had other inappropriate punishment behaviors (having me sit still and silent on his lap while he petted me).
I was 12 or 13 at the time of the shower situation.

There are signs of things that may have happened before that but I don't want to jump to conclusions.
I'm not sure about false memories and I don't trust my own mind at all.

I've read a bunch on the subject and some say voyeuristic behavior like this is enough to be considered abuse, others don't mention it.

I minimised this issue for a long time, then these body memories and physical symptoms started showing up.

There's also the issue of me being close to my father back then and really wanting a good relationship with him.

There are other things, like him being jealous of me having my first boyfriend to the point of wanting to slap me and other stuff like that.

I'm just not sure voyeurism constitutes abuse.
The only reason it matters is for me to file it in my mind. I tend to either maximise it or minimise it, no middle realistic ground.

Opinions? Thoughts?
Thanks in advance

Sorry mods.

I want to add, my ptsd may have not originated here.. I have two posterior rapes and other crit A trauma in both adolescence and young adulthood.
So I'm not looking for a "was I raped" thread, but for some opinions on whether this constitutes abuse.

 

[Friday]

If someone did that to my kid I’d break both their knees, and slam their face into the concrete.

So, yeah. I’d say that was abuse.

And I come from a family that kisses on the mouth, practices casual nudity, communal bathing (hot springs, beach showers, skinny dipping, etc.) and there’s often conversations going on between the person in the shower, the person on the toilet, and the person brushing their teeth (why oh why the bathroom Grand Central Station, I’ll never know :facepalm: Although I’m sure it’s partly a captive audience, partly convienience, partly no one really cares, partly IDK). Point being? We’re very, very relaxed in most of our interactions. None of it is sexual. None of it is abusive. What you just described? Voyerism, petting punishments, etc.? Pretty clearly is. At least in my view.

 

[ILoveLife]

Thanks @Friday for the validation.

My mom's part of the "friends family" are nudists so I was okay with beach nudity, even house nudity around my mom, but not with my father's intrusion.
Like, I knew how to separate the two differences.

Ugh.. My father was disgusting.
Also a depressed, pity me sort of fellow. Which I did pity him and helped him get help.

I'm coming to terms with the not my fault bit. Yay me. :meh:

 

[Rumors]

Definitely abuse... sick behavior. I am so sorry you had that happen.

 

[ILoveLife]

Thank you @Rumors

 

[Swift]

Definitely, definitely abuse beyond a shadow of a doubt IMO.
In Aus we have a specific set of offences that are called "no-contact sexual abuse", which basically means the adult didnt touch the child's genitals, but it's still abuse. It's illegal, and it's definitely enough to get your kid taken off you, as it should be.
My rationale for that, if you're interested:
"Is an adult disregarding a child's physical boundaries and touching them, repeatedly, in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable, abusive?"
Now, I don't know what your father's gig was, whether he got sexual gratification out of that creepy AF 'punishment.'
I don't think it's really relevant to whether or not it was abusive though.
Being creepy with a child, in a way that could be construed as sexual, is f*cking abuse in my book.

Secondly. Kissing on the mouth. See above.

Thirdly... watching a 12-13 year old shower, when they're clearly uncomfortable with it? Abuse abuse abuse.

close to my father back then and really wanting a good

And... I was in love with my abuser.
That doesn't mean his behaviours aren't abusive.

Lastly, if a little kid came to you and said that's what their father was doing, what would you do?

And, would you ever treat a child like that? Personally, I'd rather lose both hands and my sight before I did what your father did.

I'm sorry, @Sietz. It's a basket of shit.
And I'm sorry if I sound angry, I've been sitting on this for a while.

 

[ILoveLife]

And I'm sorry if I sound angry, I've been sitting on this for a while.

Thank you @Swift :hug: for your anger.
It still doesn't make me angry. Since he died that there's this forgiving attitude towards him that permeates everyone.
That he was an excellent person, just confused.
I feel like I'm soiling his memory by pressing this subject, that I should keep it to myself.

Then the loving him bit, I feel disgusted with myself. Like I was okay with it all happening.

would you ever treat a child like that?

Obviously not.
What my father did doesn't make me like him.

 

[Swift]

Sorry!
What I meant by that was you'd never do that, no way, not a chance in hell.
I often find my "gut" reaction when I imagine doing some mild stuff my ex did helps me cut through the fog a bit.
I'd never do that, and I feel very deeply that it's wrong, and my kind of "no way!" response helps me realise how wrong it was.

 

[ILoveLife]

I'd never do that, and I feel very deeply that it's wrong, and my kind of "no way!" response helps me realise how wrong it was.

Ah ok :) thanks for clearing it up. No apologies necessary.

Yes, that's helpful.

 

[Swift]

loving him bit, I feel disgusted with myself.

I hear you on this one.
@Sietz you were a child and he was your father. Of course you loved him and wanted a good relationship with him!
And... I loved my ex, too. That doesn't mean what she did wasn't wrong.

soiling his memory by pressing this subject, that I should keep it to myself.

I hate the total erasure of death.
You're not soiling his memory, you're processing it.
And... being dead doesn't give you a pass on all the shitty things you've ever done.

Like I was okay with it all happening.

No, no and no...
This is victim-blame meets self-blame.
Of course you loved him. But he was complicated, and love is a complicated thing.
Love isn't consent. Even if it were, children can't consent..

Sorry you're struggling with this.

 

[ILoveLife]

Love isn't consent.

This is important.
Thanks for this.

I'm going to drop the subject for a while and continue on my diary later. I'm not feeling well right now. This is the subject that breeds all other subjects. Like @Justmehere's T said.. I'm going to regulate.

 

[Swift]

Good luck!
Much good vibes.