News Ariana Grande groped at Aretha Franklin's funeral - by a bishop - in front of the cameras. I am disgusted!

[Justmehere]

Let's not get too caught up in the culture of outrage. (Myself included.) It will only drown serious issues in white noise. This isn’t rape or sexual assault. It shouldn’t be compared with such.

In a time where people make fun of married men who won’t have dinner with a woman alone, in order to avoid any appearance of a problem... AND society also freaks out about a side hug that lasts way too long... it's a bind. Mistakes will be made. It will be impossible to satisfy the hoards on Twitter.

It’s like stepping on someone’s foot. It’s an oops sorry, I should have let go sooner and not reached so far.

What bugs me is that he's a bishop for God’s sake, and a professional public speaker. It would be like a professional dancer stepping on toes... There is a real danger and expecting these folks to be perfect, and at the same time, this is what he does for a living. Time to step it up. Especially right now, with sexual assault cases in the church in the news every day, pastors, priests, bishops, and all clergy would do a lot of good to keep their hands to themselves unless they ask first and the person wants to be held.

I heard of another celeb, Paula Poundstone, hugging perhaps a hundred people after an event once. She asked every single one. It’s not that hard. I’m personally just annoyed/pissed with stories or clergy getting too handsy. But I’ll easily say it’s not most clergy and not most men (or anyone of any gender) that get too handsy.

 

[Neverthesame]

I watched it.
Not sure what I think, don't feel comfortable expressing an opinion even if I did. Just another day of internet vitriol.

What I will say is, I don't think 3/4 of the people freaking out about this on Flakebook or Twatter or wherever the hell else, know who Aretha Franklin was, or where Detroit is on a map.

What I do have an opinion on, is the ruined funeral of an amazing woman because we'd rather rip each other to pieces, than reminisce over the joy an amazing woman brought to so many people of every race, gender and creed the world over.

Sorry Aretha, you deserved better.

 

[shatter eyes]

I watched it.
Not sure what I think, don't feel comfortable expressing an opinion even if I did. Just another day of internet vitriol.

What I will say is, I don't think 3/4 of the people freaking out about this on Flakebook or Twatter or wherever the hell else, know who Aretha Franklin was, or where Detroit is on a map.

What I do have an opinion on, is the ruined funeral of an amazing woman because we'd rather rip each other to pieces, than reminisce over the joy an amazing woman brought to so many people of every race, gender and creed the world over.

Sorry Aretha, you deserved better.

AMEN ♡♡♡♡♡

 

[hithere]

Too me, he is very tall and she is short and when walking next to someone with your arm around them, that's where his hand went. I don't think from the video that it was an intentional grope AT ALL. His taco bell comment wasn't great, at all. Hopefully learn. We probably need to get the point where there is "no touching" no hugging, no arms around the other in this culture. It was uncomfortable for her for sure, She was brought in too close to his side-- and not wanting to make a scene, but if they were just standing apart away from each other, that isn't the spirit of a funeral, it would feel too "showy" or "performance"-- I felt he was trying to portray a warmth, but he was too tall -- his hand should have been on her shoulder. I don't feel she was "groped" with the intention of getting his jollies off. I've been groped intentionally and sexually harrassed and made to feel less than (not even to mention what my traumas' are!) So that's my two cents for what they are worth.

 

[hithere]

I watched it.
What I will say is, I don't think 3/4 of the people freaking out about this on Flakebook or Twatter or wherever the hell else, know who Aretha Franklin was, or where Detroit is on a map.
What I do have an opinion on, is the ruined funeral of an amazing woman because we'd rather rip each other to pieces, than reminisce over the joy an amazing woman brought to so many people of every race, gender and creed the world over.

Sorry Aretha, you deserved better.

I can't agree more with this statement

 

[Justmehere]

I don’t think he ruined her funeral. There were a number of other goof ups. Bill Clinton ooogling Ariana, other preachers who turned it into a chance to politically grandstand.... there wasn’t much actual eulogizing of the singer during the whole thing. A lot of people were greedy for recognition and attention instead of honoring her passing. They would have done better with a no-name pastor actually talking about her life.

She could have used a little more respect.

 

[EveHarrington]

Too me, he is very tall and she is short and when walking next to someone with your arm around them, that's where his hand went. I don't think from the video that it was an intentional grope AT ALL. His taco bell comment wasn't great, at all. Hopefully learn. We probably need to get the point where there is "no touching" no hugging, no arms around the other in this culture. It was uncomfortable for her for sure, She was brought in too close to his side-- and not wanting to make a scene, but if they were just standing apart away from each other, that isn't the spirit of a funeral, it would feel too "showy" or "performance"-- I felt he was trying to portray a warmth, but he was too tall -- his hand should have been on her shoulder. I don't feel she was "groped" with the intention of getting his jollies off. I've been groped intentionally and sexually harrassed and made to feel less than (not even to mention what my traumas' are!) So that's my two cents for what they are worth.

....but he put his arms around the shoulder of everyone else he side hugged.

I think we need to stop excusing accidental groping as an accident.

Sorry I accidentally groped you.

Sorry I accidentally slapped your ass.

Sorry I accidentally kissed you.

Sorry I accidentally assaulted you.

Where does it stop?

Why does a grope get a pass?

We need to start looking at women differently and not excusing men for not having the damn decency to know ahead of time that it’s not ok to grope a woman. (Any woman out there knows the side-grope action.)

Intentional or not simply isn’t the point.

 

[Sideways]

Where does it stop?

I think I understand this argument, but it seems flawed to me: partly because it applies a black/white approach to human interaction, and partly because it seems to disempower the proposed victim.

It does make it clearer what’s acceptable and what’s not if we simply draw a line in the sand. But if we apply that black/white approach, we seem to be saying that an accidental grope is just a mild form of sexual assault. Which I absolutely disagree with, and which over-simplifies human interaction, which is an incredibly complex thing. I think accepting that things are more complex, that it isn’t just a ‘slippery slope’ to rape, that there are lots of issues in play, does more to advance civilisation.

Secondly, even if this were rape: rape is sex without consent. Sex is ok, unless the victim says “that was unwelcome”. Touching someone sexually? Is actually ok, unless it’s unwelcome. Our colective outrage, based on “she looked uncomfortable”, seems to be as disempowering to the proposed victim (which is Grande, not us) as assuming a woman is consenting to sexual contact because “she gave me a look”... That’s not how we determine if sexual contact is ok - because it disempowera us to actually decide, and speak, on our own behalf.

 

[Slushie]

I watched quite a bit of the funeral and I didn't think where he put his hand was an accident. I know there are men who get a kick out of things like that little move and I know there are men who would never do that but this looked intentional and she looked super uncomfortable. I've heard the way some men talk to each other.. Like it's some sort of victory they got away with an 'accidental' grope. Those sorts of men are the reason why I have so much fear that I should not have to experience. I agree it's also terrible that it happened at Aretha's funeral, of all places..

 

[Sideways]

I know there are men who get a kick out of things like that little move

Not picking on you personally, but this is projection which has been occurring throughout this thread. Something to watch out for with a trauma history (when “I know men who...” becomes “so all men...”, or deciding any behaviour which links to our experiences must therefore be bad).

 

[EveHarrington]

I think I understand this argument, but it seems flawed to me: partly because it applies a black/white approach to human interaction, and partly because it seems to disempower the proposed victim.

It does make it clearer what’s acceptable and what’s not if we simply draw a line in the sand. But if we apply that black/white approach, we seem to be saying that an accidental grope is just a mild form of sexual assault. Which I absolutely disagree with, and which over-simplifies human interaction, which is an incredibly complex thing. I think accepting that things are more complex, that it isn’t just a ‘slippery slope’ to rape, that there are lots of issues in play, does more to advance civilisation.

Secondly, even if this were rape: rape is sex without consent. Sex is ok, unless the victim says “that was unwelcome”. Touching someone sexually? Is actually ok, unless it’s unwelcome. Our colective outrage, based on “she looked uncomfortable”, seems to be as disempowering to the proposed victim (which is Grande, not us) as assuming a woman is consenting to sexual contact because “she gave me a look”... That’s not how we determine if sexual contact is ok - because it disempowera us to actually decide, and speak, on our own behalf.

You totally don’t understand my argument.

When you’ve been “accidentally” side groped and have firsthand experience in this realm, please feel free to argue with me. Until then, byeeee.

 

[Slushie]

Unfortunately the problem is that I know a lot of men wouldn't do that but the ones who do, pretty much ruin it for those other decent ones. It basically makes me wary of all men because I can't tell which ones think that way and which ones don't. I can only base it on men I have known a long time and who've never harmed me. But even those ones could have harmed other women and I wouldn't know about it.