Service dog handler lobby

[Sideways]

I have no idea why you felt the need to jump into a conversation I was having with someone else to try to tell me that my training methods are wrong.

Because it’s an issue I’m passionate about (training service dogs is basically what I do these days), and the information you were giving doesn’t align with the science we now have available to us.

Lots of people read this forum all over the world. This particular thread is one people go to for information and discussion about service dogs, and the conversation had steered towards training. It seemed pretty logical to me that the discussion would benefit from some evidence-based information, rather than just one person’s experience using training techniques that have been overwhelmingly been shown to be unsafe, and less effective than other methods.

I’m quite sure you have enough experience on this forum to know that people are going to jump in on conversations. Sometimes, people jump in with information that hasn’t previously been made available by other posters.

Public discussion forums. That’s kinda how they work.

As a dog trainer myself? It’s important to me that the discussion is informed by someone who has a little bit more knowledge than “I’ve watched a whole lotta YouTube”. The information you have provided about your training techniques? Could very easily be adopted by someone reading this thread with an interest in training their own service dog. So, it’s important to me that those people? Know that there are safer and more effective methods that don’t involve fear, pain or punishment.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I’ve watched a whole lotta YouTube”.

Oh, don't forget the $350 of training classes I took. Glad you are the expert and know more then myself.

Again, have a good day!

 

[littleoc]

@Strangelongtrip How's it going? :)

Do you have some clearer options to work with yet? (It's your life! Do what works for you!)

 

[Strangelongtrip]

Hey @littleoc ! I appreciate you checking in! this ended up being waaaayyy long so I apologize haha

Korra has been doing well, she alerted a tachycardia episode Friday night I was very proud haha. But I still think I'm going to end up finding a new prospect. If I didn't need mobility for my other health issues I'd fight more for Korra. I do think she'll be okay without me, if I didn't I would fight harder for her too. My mom has depression and she helps her a lot too so she would still sort of have a job.

I actually found a breeder too, three generations back of health testing and many proven service dogs for a variety of needs, including psych. I saw their website and all the things they do to prep the puppies and it was just like something clicked, like I just knew it was the right breeder and the right breed of dog: white swiss shepherds.

I like labs, goldens, and poodles, but they don't "click" with me if that makes sense. I feel like I'll get flack for the breed tbh bc shepherds can feed off of emotions I've seen it happen so I don't know I may be talked out of it. I've also seen so many good psych service dog shepherds with the right handlers and I'm always a very similar personality to those handlers I've met. I've looked all around for a golden breeder but don't think the dog is right for me from all the goldens I've met and I haven't found any breeders for them who have had any service dogs come out of them, mainly hunting dogs and agility dogs.

I would be willing to travel though. Poodles wouldn't be big enough for me unfortunately. I'd still consider a lab but they never really click with me, I think it's the absolute friendliness in both labs and goldens to be honest, it's not what I want and I'm not comfortable with it. I think I'm going to ask to spend some time around her dogs to make sure, she's about an hour a way and I can visit some of my friends as well they're out that way. I like the aloofness and reservedness of shepherds. I definitely will get help from a trainer who knows the breed. I'm saving a good amount each month so I have enough when I can finally get a puppy.

I doubt these feelings a lot but it's the same feeling when I have made other decisions or come to other realizations that have been "just right". I was taught to doubt that feeling I guess. It's the same feeling I had when I knew I had to move back home and do school online, what I want to do for a career, and when I finally was like *I'm gay* haha. Same feelings I've had about certain people in my life, and I recognize the feeling when something is wrong too. Like the other shepherd breeder I found, I had a voice saying this isn't it yet.

Anyways I'm honestly really excited. I had reservations about me being able to handle a puppy but I had these three dogs (one lab haha) this weekend that are absolute chaos and wake me at 5am every morning barking loudly and jump all over me and nip me and I'm like yeah... I can handle anything a dog throws at me. Same with the new puppy I'm watching, she's smaller but she's wild too. It's people that's the hard thing for me hahaha ?

 

[lostforgottensoul]

your life! Do what works for you!)

THANK YOU!

white swiss shepherds.

Huh! Never heard of that breed of shepard. Will have to look at that!

I like labs, goldens, and poodles, but they don't "click" with me if that makes sense. I feel like I'll get flack for the breed tbh bc shepherds can feed off of emotions I've seen it happen so I don't know I may be talked out of it.

If a breed clicks, a breed clicks! Shepards are pretty high energy but great dogs. I'd get a sherpard myself but they don't seem to be square enough, or heavy enough for mobility for me.

Korra has been doing well, she alerted a tachycardia episode Friday night I was very proud haha.

Is that cardiac alert? Chopper smells my ear and alerts to anxiety via my heart rate. He also detects it during DPT when his head is on my chest but from talking to a lot of other handlers I hear that cardiac detection is like seizure alert. Some dogs can detect it, most can't and it can't be trained but rather what a dog can naturally detect. I never taught Chopper how to detect heart rate and I didn't know he could until we were brushing up on nightmare waking one night and he smelled my ear. It took me a while to figure out he was smelling for heart rate.

Anyway, if it is cardiac alert, and if that is something that some dogs can detect, most can't, and can't be trained...maybe that's a factor? Maybe not but thought I'd throw it out there!

I doubt these feelings a lot but it's the same feeling when I have made other decisions or come to other realizations that have been "just right". I was taught to doubt that feeling I guess. It's the same feeling I had when I knew I had to move back home and do school online, what I want to do for a career, and when I finally was like *I'm gay* haha. Same feelings I've had about certain people in my life, and I recognize the feeling when something is wrong too. Like the other shepherd breeder I found, I had a voice saying this isn't it yet.

A gut feeling maybe?

Either way, if you have a feeling it's right then hey, it's right! You know? It is a daughting tasking to find the right breed for mobility then the right breeder then the right dog that has the right temperment and then the right drive and trainability so good luck to you! I'm happy you seem more content with the descion!

 

[Strangelongtrip]

@lostforgottensoul

thank you!! From what I've researched they're a derivative of a german shepherd but in general have lower energy and lower drive, and can be protective but in general less so than the average shepherd.

Yes it's a heart rate alert, my heart spikes 30 bpm when I'm standing and even though it's generally only at about 120bpm it feels like I'm dying. I thought they were anxiety or panic attacks but they're more correlated with my position (only when standing or sitting). I haven't been diagnosed with anything yet but I have to get a special test. Yep some dogs have it, some don't!

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Yes it's a heart rate alert, my heart spikes 30 bpm when I'm standing and even though it's generally only at about 120bpm it feels like I'm dying. I thought they were anxiety or panic attacks but they're more correlated with my position (only when standing or sitting). I haven't been diagnosed with anything yet but I have to get a special test.

POTs? Tilt table test?

 

[Strangelongtrip]

@lostforgottensoul YEP!! My cardiologist doesn’t do it so she has to refer me out. I’m going to ask when I go in this week. I’ve been putting it off bc I’m scared, everyone keeps saying it’s just anxiety and it’s all in my head even though I have lab work and heart rate notifications to prove I have something going on. I also now know the difference between anxiety and my heart freaking out. They went away for a while but now I’m having episodes quite frequently.

I also think something is wrong with my mast cells, one of the markers for it was 10x what it should be and I’ve started taking a natural mast cell mediator and it works(well..worked) so well. Antihistamines stopped all of my symptoms including the POTS ones but I was in a constant panic attack on them and got suicidal.

I also may have EDS. I always thought it was normal to dislocate your shoulder putting on a bra hahaha. My SI joint is REALLY dysfunctional and I have all sorts of torn tissues. My grandmother dislocates joints all the time, has allergic reactions to EVERYTHING, and has dizzy spells but they never pursued treatment for it past painkillers and xanax. She’s very much addicted to them now too, been on them since the 70s.

Sorry this turned into a whole rant haha

 

[lostforgottensoul]

YEP!! My cardiologist doesn’t do it so she has to refer me out. I’m going to ask when I go in this week. I’ve been putting it off bc I’m scared, everyone keeps saying it’s just anxiety and it’s all in my head even though I have lab work and heart rate notifications to prove I have something going on. I also now know the difference between anxiety and my heart freaking out. They went away for a while but now I’m having episodes quite frequently.

Oh good! Don't let the hype in the community (if it is the service dog community) get to you. POTS is real and it effects people. I'm glad your current service dog can alert to episodes for now. Will hope for the best!

I always thought it was normal to dislocate your shoulder putting on a bra hahaha.

Bahaha! Nope! EDS, I hear, is pretty painful, eh? Some say they don't feel it when their joints pop out but seems pretty painful to me. Is that why you need a mobility service dog?

Are you thinking of a mobility harness? Or have experience with one? I am thinking to try a Bridgeport but so many have had bad experience. I'm in direct contact with the owner of Yup Collars on Etsy and they are now making a mobility support harness with a rigid handle thanks to me. I asked them if they can figure out a way to make the handle fold down for me. I haven't heard back about it yet. I can't afford a BLD/MSH but the handle will hit the roof of the car when loading Chopper so thinking of asking him to dress on the car. He puts his front paws up the couch and that lets me dress him easier. Thinking of doing that on the car once we get to said place and then undress before we load in the car. Unless Yup Collars can find a way to make the handle fold down for me. He said he'd be in touch about it. So, we'll see. They made the rigid handle one avail on their Etsy Shop after talking with me privately about it. So, we'll see. It'll be a bit more then a Bridgeport but way less then a BLD. And Yup Collars is so much better made and way less reports of gear shyness. So, we'll see. But, I can't put off a mobility harness much longer. Was wondering if you had any experiences with mobility harnesses.

Anyway, sorry for rambling and all the questions. Just curious really.

 

[littleoc]

@lostforgottensoul I meant with choosing a dog! I feel so strongly about never letting a dog go, but wanted to make it clear that I don’t mean to seem forceful about it!

I’m a scientist at heart and trust any peer reviewed sciences. I just learned a bunch of good info for my current doggo and my next doggo!

Except for the breed, I’m trying to both decide on that and remember not go be too interested in just one breed or mix. :)

@Strangelongtrip It sounds like you have a good alternative so far! What are your plans for the transition, though? Can you stay with the first dog until you have a good alternative?

 

[Strangelongtrip]

@lostforgottensoul hahaha yep I’m in pain all of the time basically. Every time I went to the doctor for it as a kid they told me it was anxiety, except when I would break bones. I was being sent home for body pain constantly bc I couldn’t hold a pencil without sobbing but my family never looked into it and just told me stop being anxious and it would stop. I’ve always been able to pop everything back in but it def hurts but I think my pain tolerance is so high at this point that it just doesn’t bother me lol.

It’s part of the reason I need mobility, also for dizzy spells for balancing and forward momentum I hear saves SOO much energy if done right. I’m fatigued all the time so anything that could help would be great. I’ll also need help retrieving items like water bottles and medication which most size dogs could do.

I don’t have any experience with them but I’m obsessed with reading reviews and deciding what I’d get years down the road haha. I wasn’t big into the Fleece harness craze, I just hear they wear down. I’d probably go with YUP or BLD depending on what I can save up for!

@littleoc ignore this I read wrong I’m sorry haha

 

[lostforgottensoul]

@lostforgottensoul I meant with choosing a dog! I feel so strongly about never letting a dog go, but wanted to make it clear that I don’t mean to seem forceful about it

I agree! Once you have a dog you want to try to keep that dog as long as you can. Most especially if it's alerting to things like cardiac or seizures that come natural to only a few dogs and cannot be trained. The likelyhood of finding that again is so low!

forward momentum I hear saves SOO much energy

YES IT DOES!!. And counter balance comes with it. It's sort of a two in one training. Proven hard to train alone (for me) but once the dog gets it, it's amazing! Chopper was pulling me and the shopping cart the other day and yep, is just amazing for energy. I can walk further with less effort. Less pain as well. Foward momtum and counter balance are invaulable amazing tasks for mobility. And, if that's all you need, it's light mobility so the standards are a bit lower. More breed options.

I’d probably go with YUP or BLD depending on what I can save up for!

BLD really has a monoply on the market and I'm not even sure why another company can't compete but yeah, $500 - a grand for a mobility harness (depending on customizations)? Yeah, no. Not unless a it's fund raised.