Service dog handler lobby

[littleoc]

@littleoc ignore this I read wrong I’m sorry haha

You’re all good ??

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I thought this was great and relevant and helpful so thought I'd post:

Engagement in training is so important. So much so that we do seperate, engagement games every single day. We'll do maybe just a few mins before work with a toy inside. Then we'll do this during exercise. Ask for focus or a focused heel then throw the toy. We will also do a few mins right before I give him his dinner. Engagement is super duper important. And playing a few mins of an engagement game a day (or even a few a day), that will help that dog's focus overall in training I have found.

Really hope this helps (for both training styles).

Disclaimer: This was not posted to try to get anyone to train a certian way or to try to engage (non pun intended) training as a topic of discussion (again). It was only posted to help anyone out there that maybe training a service dog (or really any dog). I will not be debating training or be discussing different training techniques. This can apply to any training technique/style out there and that is why I chose to go ahead and post it. It is good for anyone training a dog for any reason using any technique.

 

[Friday]

Putting on my Mod-Hat for a moment...

I will not be debating training or be discussing different training techniques.

Trying to tell people that your word is the only word that’s allowed on the subject, or the final word, doesn’t really work in a discussion forum.

You can present your opinion, but other people are also free to present theirs. If you don’t want to debate or discuss further, you don’t have to. Simply do not respond to further posts. Other people, however, are free to debate and discuss as they please.

As a reminder : Community Constitution

Community Personality

MyPTSD's personality ranges widely within a candid, empathetic, challenging, yet supportive membership. Diversity is the spice of life, and this community respects diverse opinions. A community philosophy often read here is "use what helps you, and ignore the rest."

As always, if anyone would like to discuss the content of THIS post, please use Contact Us, so we can keep this thread on topic. Thank you!


...We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread!

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Edited: Sorry, didn't read the bottom. Don't think I can delete a post so will edit it instead.

 

[SeanCharles]

I have an issue that I am not sure how to handle: Winnie is either picking up a a change in my anxiety/stress or something else in me which causes her to stress and in so doing causes her to whine. A trainer that I (am) although at present am unable to work with was saying that we need to get Winnie to be my Rock and reflect whatever is going on back to me for me to deal with while calming me instead of my having to be HER emotional rock. Any suggestions, thoughts or feedback is welcomed!

 

[Sideways]

Any suggestions, thoughts or feedback is welcomed!

Assuming Winnie is eating adequately and has no health issues going on...

We can’t always dictate the way that our dogs indicate to us that something is wrong. Winnie is doing her job by alerting you to the fact that “things are not okay”. It’s huge that you can recognise that she’s doing that, and actually it doesn’t need to be something you need to stress about, so much as respond appropriately to.

So, good job Winnie for recognising things are awry, and reward her with a treat to reinforce that indicating to you is something you want her to keep doing.

Thing about dog’s is if they indicate to us “something is wrong” and we just shush them for it, then they quickly learn “boss doesn’t like me doing that”. So notice, reward, and if you can, take action to try and bring your distress levels down in the moment (because that’s the routine you’re looking to instil in both you and doggo). If it was a doctor telling you in the moment “You’re really not okay right now”, you’d prioritise that. Same goes when it’s doggo telling you

Once Winnie has been rewarded for noticing, drop your shoulders, regulate your breath (so Winnie can see that you’re reasonably okay), then introduce a ‘settle’ type command (or if Winnie has a mat you use that’s awesome).

The process is basically (1) reward dog for noticing, (2) change your posture and breathing to let dog know you’re okay now, (3) encourage doggo to settle back down (which is a seperate skill to train your dog with, and an extremely helpful one).

On top of that? Developing a dog’s confidence is always a good thing, and is something that is ongoing throughout the dog’s life. And it’s often basic stuff: keeping her exercise levels where they need to be is super important. But also look at enrichment activities. These can be outdoors if you’re up for that (agility classes are gold star for a dog’s confidence but even just a sniffari every few days is helpful), then amp up the nose work and enrichment games at home. There’s a stack of ideas on cheap enrichment activities all over the web - look for ones that are fun and engaging. It’s not a case of teaching your dog to be ‘smarter’, so much as getting them involved in something different than their everyday routine that is fun and incites curiosity. Much like humans, refularly doing something fun, engaging and different, even if it’s just at home, can be huge for a dog’s confidence.

Try not to misinterpret whining as “my dog is not okay”. It’s just a form of communication. Winnie is most likely whining because you’re not okay (your physiology or your daily routine is out) and your dog is concerned. That’s not evidence that your dog is an emotional wreck, it’s evidence that your dog is tuned into you and expressing perfectly reasonable concern.

Once you’re able to reinterpret the whining to what it actually means (my dog is super good at letting me know if I’m not okay) rather than “my dog is an emotional wreck”, it can be something that motivates you to act, rather than be something that distreses you. A dog that whines because you’re not okay? Is your rock.

Having a settle command or a mat that the dog returns to when they’ve done their job is likely to be helpful for both you and Winnie, so if you haven’t already got that in your toolbox, maybe prioritise that with your trainer in dud course.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Winnie is either picking up a a change in my anxiety/stress or something else in me which causes her to stress and in so doing causes her to whine.

This is how seizure alert is trained. Only a small percent of dogs can naturally detect seizures and that detection cannot be trained but rather is what a few dogs can naturally do. Except, they don't know how to to tell you that you are having a seizure. The dog may whine. Maybe an odd stare. The handler needs to train the alert.

What I did, with anxiety and panic, is I trained the alert first. So, he knew what that was. It's different for whatever he's alerting to, but lets say that alert is to put their paw on your leg. Call it "alert" for example. So, train "alert" while sitting, standing, laying down, and then with distractions starting small and getting bigger. Also, I've found it a good idea to train it while he is in different positions as well.

Once that was down I then asked for said alert each time I had had anxiety or a panic attack in his presence. Eventually, I didn't have to ask for it anymore and he alerted automaticlly. Thus, the alert for anxiety and panic. You can add anxiety behaviors as well. Things that signal your anxiety is rising like shaking for example.

Even though Winnie is already detecting your anxiety and panic, I wouldn't skip this step personally as it connects the detection with the alert.

Anyway, that's what I did. Winnie knows. You just need to teach her how to tell you.

 

[Sideways]

Only a small percent of dogs can naturally detect seizures and that detection cannot be trained but rather is what a few dogs can naturally do.

You’ve mentioned this a couple of times and I’m genuinely interested. We train seizure alert and seizure response dogs, and as long as the alerting behaviours haven’t already been trained out of the dog (something a lot of pet owners do because alerting behaviours are often interpreted by the handler as “My dog is annoying me or misbehaving”), we find that most healthy dogs are able to detect the incredibly subtle physiological changes that precede a seizure. So we have a lot of success with that.

But my understanding of the studies into this to date is that no one has been able to demonstrate (other than anecdotally) that any dog can detect solely neurological changes. So it would be awesome to know if there is now studies available that show some dogs are capable of this. It would be helpful for our organisation because it would assist with NDIS funding applications to get the government to fund assistance dogs for people experiencing seizures.

Are you able to direct me to where you got this information from so that I can look into it? It would be huge for our organisation to get some adequate government funding, but to date, the scientific evidence of neurological detection doesn’t seem to be there...???

 

[lostforgottensoul]

other than anecdotally

I'm not sure what you are asking. Chopper doesn't alert to seizures (though he did naturally detect cardiac eposodes) so anecdotal "evidence" and what I've read by those that have trained seizure alert dogs is all I have. As far as I've heard, programs don't generally train seizure alert due to not all dogs being able to detect seizures and all you can do is train the alert after you learn the dog can detect the seizure. But if you train seizure alert dogs and have updated research, cool and I appologize for giving incorrect information.

Those handlers that I am online friends with that have seizure alert dogs tell me that owner training a seizure alert is a shot in the dark. That you get a dog for other reasons (such as mobility) and if your dog can detect a seizure and shows that they can detect a seizure, you can train the alert from there. But, that's anecdotical and just what I've been told and have read through the years.

Being that Chopper did naturally detect cardiac episodes, I can speak to at least shaping an alert based off a natural detection of something. Though appologize if I gave incorrect information based on cutting edge research.

 

[Sideways]

Though appologize if I gave incorrect information based on cutting edge research.

Not at all, I’m just digging my nose into the research because of the NDIS funding stuff going on here with assistance dogs atm and we need all the research we can get.

My reading so far is that there’s good evidence for detecting physiological stuff (heart rate, hormonal changes, respiratory rate, subtle posture changes etc) but the neurology research is still not solid at all.

Certainly we get excellent results for trainer-trained seizure dogs, for a variety of breeds. But the studies suggest that’s because there are subtle physiological changes that precede many seizure episodes and it’s those that the dog is detecting rather than the sudden neurological change.

For people with seizures, having a seizure response dog (as opposed to one that alerts) there is good data to show that the dog will reduce the frequency of seizures, but the interpretation of that seems to be because of the changes to the person’s psychology and lifestyle from having the support in place.

It’s all good news for reasons to train more dogs, it’s just we haven’t got the neurological evidence yet to back up the (voluminous!) anecdotal evidence.


Always happy to hear fresh stuff on the research into that.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Certainly we get excellent results for trainer-trained seizure dogs, for a variety of breeds. But the studies suggest that’s because there are subtle physiological changes that precede many seizure episodes and it’s those that the dog is detecting rather than the sudden neurological change.

There is a handler that is pretty well know. Milbone and The Dodo just sponsered her and did a comercial with her. Her name is Jayane but goes by the name "Service Dog Colt". She claims that Colt can alert her up to, I believe, 2 hours, before a seizure. But it's some really high amount of time before the seizure. It's just what she claims. But, being the Milkbone, The Dodo, (and a dog food company that I can't remember the name of at the moment) just sank a lot of money into her, I am assuming she can prove he alerts her before a seizure.

There are many others that claim an alert before the seizure but that one seems the be the most popular at the moment. She also owner trained Colt. If you are looking for any evidence or examples, I'd get ahold of her.

 

[Sideways]

@lostforgottensoul - that’s the type of anecdotal evidence I was referring to, and there’s volumes of it. I’ve worked with people helping them train their seizure alert dogs and I don’t doubt their experiences at all.

Persuading the government to provide extra funding is a different matter. It doesn’t matter how much anecdotal evidence we can provide, they want the empirical research before they’ll fund programs like ours under the NDIS.