Atheist unite!!

[Sideways]

largely secular nation of NZ

Sorry, is that the secular Maori culture of NZ? Or the secular white inhabitants from the last 200years?

 

[bellbird]

Sorry, is that the secular Maori culture of NZ? Or the secular white inhabitants from the last 200years?

In 2017, mentions of the word "Jesus" were removed from the New Zealand Parliament's Te reo karakia.

Based on WIN/Gallup International polls in 2018, New Zealand was the 11th least religious nation in the world.

Between the census of 1956 and 2013, the NZ population who identified as having no religion rose from 0.5% to 42%.
In that 2013 census, the difference between people who identified themselves as European, and those who identified themselves as Māori is negligible; 47% and 46%, respectively identifying as having no religion (source: teara.govt.nz).

This term "white" you use is really quite redundant. Using my own immediate family unit here in NZ as an example, which has descendants from Ngāti Porou and from Europe, who identify as Māori and European, respectively, but who have the same skin colour that I would imagine you would use that term to describe.
As well as my knowledge from my background in human genetics, and the recent discovery of only 8 genetic variants that create the continuous spectrum of human skin colour that we see on Earth; the random admixture of these genes can and does create a similar level of skin pigmentation between both Māori and European people, to use just my family as one example, and people of different ethnicities in general.

So yes, Aotearoa New Zealand... our people / our tangata whenua... both Māori and "white" as you put it are a largely secular nation.

And this trend of atheism or secularism in New Zealand, evidently independent of European or Māori ancestry based on our census results, is continuing to increase.

I hope that answers your questions, @Sideways .
(image source: www.newshub.co.nz)

 

[Sideways]

@bellbird - now I’m utterly confused. Because your census results confirm that NZ’s population is departing Christianity at a similar rate to Australia’s, but the non-Christian population has been steadily increasing for some time.

Seriously, I’m out. I always figured that tolerance was kind of a hallmark of atheism. Apparently I’m wrong about that. Whatever.

 

[somerandomguy]

Tolerance, as far as I know, is not and has never been a hallmark of atheism. Tolerance in the sense that we think all religions are equally terrible and sick and wish they were all equally gone, maybe.

Tolerance? If I could press a button and destroy all religions, I wouldn't have to think. I'd just do it.

Tolerance towards religious people? A different thing. I don't hate anyone based on their religion, so maybe that's the tolerance you're looking for, @Sideways. I think religion certainly gives people an excuse to act like assholes. I'm pretty intolerant towards assholes. But individual religious people who can mind their own business and not try to push their beliefs on others and not act like assholes? They're okay. Still wrong, but okay.

 

[bellbird]

Not sure how I've been at all intolerant, @Sideways .
I've answered all your questions, to the best of my knowledge using both my personal experience and evidence from referenced sources, with great care and respect.

If my answers weren't what you were wanting, and you choose to leave on this note?

Whatever.

Then perhaps it might be a better idea to consider your own tolerance.

Tolerance, as far as I know, is not and has never been a hallmark of atheism. Tolerance in the sense that we think all religions are equally terrible and sick, maybe

Agreed.

 

[Sideways]

Tolerance towards religious people? A different thing. I don't hate anyone based on their religion, so maybe that's the tolerance you're looking for, @Sideways. I think religion certainly gives people an excuse to act like assholes. I'm pretty intolerant towards assholes. But individual religious people who can mind their own business and not try to push their beliefs on others and not act like assholes? They're okay.

They are.

And, living in a world full of people wanting to convince me to believe in God? Where they (literally) knock on my door and wanna invite themselves in to tell me all about how much I need religion? How I’m gonna burn in eternal damnation etc for just being lil’ ol’ me!?!

I can’t imagine coping in this world as an atheist without being hella tolerant. I just thought that went without saying!

 

[somerandomguy]

Those are the most fun people to screw with, though.

Sometimes (if my kid's not around) I will look angrier and angrier as they continue their spiel, and as they take a breath, say loudly "IN THIS HOUSE WE WORSHIP SATAN." And then I close the door very firmly and go about my day.

 

[bellbird]

I certainly am not obliged to tolerate strangers who wander onto my property, to tell me about their self-obsessed mystical skydaddy.
I can either a) send them on their way, or b) proceed to tell them about the magical fairies that live at the bottom of our garden.
Like @somerandomguy says, it's often b) that's the most fun.

Nor am I obliged to tolerate people who blow themselves up in crowds of innocent people just because they think it's their ticket to heaven where 72 virgins are waiting for them.


People who want to sit in a building together and chant / sing songs with nice chords but f*cked up lyrics, on the otherhand? Sure. I let them be. I tolerate those human beings.

But their religion? I have every right to criticise and challenge.

Seriously, I’m out. I always figured that tolerance was kind of a hallmark of atheism. Apparently I’m wrong about that. Whatever.

And this reaction? Was still very unfounded.

 

[TruthSeeker]

There is room for an Atheist thread I think. Just probably in social like the others? After all there is the Christian one and the "other" wiccan/pagan one.

@Albatross - maybe a “lost soul thread?” - I’m not feeling Christian, Atheistic or particularly Pagan- more of a lost soul trying to reclaim it.

 

[bellbird]

Hey @Wilbur , atheism is by definition, the lack of belief in (all) gods.
If that's you, then welcome!

If you're hoping to reclaim faith in a particular belief system, I'd recommend heading over to those specific theistic threads if they exist already :)

But if it's a soul specifically you're trying to reclaim, I'm unsure how to help you/where to direct you there as the concept of a soul varies massively across religions and cultures.
But if you feel like there's a thread missing that you think yourself/others may benefit from, then I'd go for gold :)

 

[TruthSeeker]

Hey @Wilbur , atheism is by definition, the lack of belief in (all) gods.
If that's you, then welcome!

If you're hoping to reclaim faith in a particular belief system, I'd recommend heading over to those specific theistic threads if they exist already :)

But if it's a soul specifically you're trying to reclaim, I'm unsure how to help you/where to direct you there as the concept of a soul varies massively across religions and cultures.
But if you feel like there's a thread missing that you think yourself/others may benefit from, then I'd go for gold :)

Point taken-good idea-maybe I’ll pursue it. Thanks.

 

[Sideways]

And this reaction? Was still very unfounded.

Here’s the thing - I wasn’t asking you questions. I disagreed with your post, and expressed my own opinion.

You decided to take it upon yourself to infer questions from my posts that were apparently directed at you. But I wasn’t asking questions, I was simply giving my opinion. Happens to be different than yours. That happens.

I’m not mad keen on a thread about Atheism being used to can people who are simply exercising their basic human rights (to my knowledge they don’t stone women to death in NZ for not meeting dress code) as though the right to free speech somehow trumps a person’s right to freedom of religion. Human rights matter, even when I think another person’s religion is bogus.

Using ahteism as a basis for expressing contempt of those who happen to be religious, is about as unattractive to me as the contempt that so often happens in the reverse. And on both sides, the contempt is unnecessary if people would just practice a bit of tolerance.

Personally, I think the reasons for wearing headscarves amount to little more than cultural superstition. But freedom means freedom for everyone, not just the people I happen to agree with.

Me disagreeing with you? Isn’t the same as me asking you to please educate me more. We disagree, and I’m actually okay with that.

But you haven’t “answered all my questions” because I didn’t ask you any. Frankly that was pretty patronising.