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News Doctor-Assisted Death For Those Living With Ptsd

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Look, I am not really big on banging my head on this proverbial steel wall. I obviously think so differently that few people are willing to entertain that I could make sense on this topic at all. My experiences are vastly different as I have known people - supported them - cared for them - been one - and they died - frozen, beaten, vacant, defeated and of course, with CPTSD etched throughout their nervous system. Some of these people had been on the streets since they were teenagers.

That was a terminal situation long before they died. I know. I have been staring it down for over a decade.

What changed for me? How did my situation change and if it did doesn't that renew my faith that miracles happen? Absolutely not.

My situation changed for this reason alone. If any of you had known me in person, you would have seen that I was dying. I had lost almost completely my life force. I was

- frozen-
-beaten -
- vacant -
-defeated-
-CPTSD etched in my nervous system

It was the end of the summer and I wouldn't have survived another winter. My friends knew it. So it came down to a huge game of chicken. Those who couldn't live with themselves if I had died finally lifted a hand. And I was too far gone to care anymore. There is no question, they helped me not because they didn't want me to die, (being around me had gotten too painful) but because they couldn’t have lived with themselves if I had.

I needed resources. All of those years I had kept fighting and fighting for resources that were not available to me because I was being kept desperately poor. The more traumatized I got, the less capable I was of helping myself. Somehow nobody understood that. Because they thought trauma was bullshit; which is a stance only those with a solid nervous system are granted.

The following resources were granted to me which interrupted the chronic trauma cycle that was happening to me.

1. Enough money to supplement my housing for a year which allowed me a place to live for the first time in a decade. Our social disability system provides less than half of a realistic amount of money for market rent.

2. A prescription for Medical Marijuana (which eased my body out of the extreme freeze state I was in allowing me to break free to a degree of the chronic unbearable stress I had been in.

3. Training for peer support and a community to support me who actually knew what I had been through. This had made all the difference in the world.

4. A therapist who took a cup of tea from Timmy’s rather than the usual 320.00 fee per session, who would eventually help me navigate this system to finally get access to a government subsidy for housing so that I could remain housed.

It was a hand out so that I could actually help myself rather than keep spinning in trauma circles. All along I have attempted to help myself as society, the disability system, the shelter system, my friends, family all stood around mocking me for having been in the position I was in for so long – as if it was a failing of mine that every time I attempted to come back up for a9r, someone other entity would push my head back down again. Each of them attempting to convince me that I was too broken and mentally ill and stupid and deserving of the position I was in – because they couldn’t bare the pain of watching me. So they left me for dead.

The more I work with peers who are still immersed in this disgusting system, the more I recognize that they all have been facing the same challenges. A hopeless system that ties them up; throws them in lockdown; over drugs them; and teaches them that they aren’t allowed to even discuss their pain with others without serious repercussions.

And until those of my people who were brave enough to face their OWN fears about my almost certain demise by working through their own pain about my situation and asking me directly what I needed, I was just the clown in the featured ring at the local circus. Writhing in pain in front of everyone while they accused me of not 'trying hard enough'

We need to ask these people what they need. And until we start listening to them in a way that is meaningful, we are all part of the problem and not part of the solution. We have no right to impose our version of how much pain is too much upon them. The hopelessness isn't just about their pain but also their lack of resources; their inability to connect with society as a whole anymore due to the uniqueness of their experiences; their poverty induced isolation; and until we put the effort in to really truly hear what they need things won't change for them. Not ever. Until they die. And they know it.

As people who are being shunned or mocked or abused as they try to express their pain I don't blame them one little bit for falling into a state of hopelessness. They are traumatized; not stupid and they know the situation they are in is hopeless. They aren't wearing blinders, we are.

As responsible adults it is our duty to ask directly what these people need and try to provide it to them. It is not okay to tell them what they can have and mock them when it isn’t helpful to them because we have no idea what their experience is. Painful as that might be, it is our duty. We take resources away from these people, start calling them 'mentally ill' because they are reacting to it in a primal way because their very being is on constant attack because of our policies, attitudes and biases? And then say that because they are mentally ill they aren't qualified to determine their own chances of survival?

That is such a f*cked up double bind it is beyond words. But keep preaching how they need to 'hang in there' because if we actually SEE them die it makes us uncomfortable.

Whatever.

Namaste.
 
. I obviously think so differently that few people are willing to entertain that I could make sense on this topic at all.
I think most, if not all, of the people involved in this conversation have an awareness of how f*cked up the "social safety net" can be in our respective countries and how hard it can be to access real help. If anyone involved in this conversation has a problem believing you can and do make sense, I've missed it. Me? If I'm understanding you correctly, I just disagree with you.

I don't disagree that things should be better than they are. I don't disagree that people are treated badly. (I also don't think that everyone treats everyone badly though. Even though there's a disturbing element of luck involved in getting help sometimes.) What I, personally, have a problem with is the idea that euthanasia is the best solution for more than MAYBE a tiny minority. And I'm not sure that tiny minority actually exists. Personally, I'd rather see things work better than they do for more people, more of the time.
It is not okay to tell them what they can have and mock them when it isn’t helpful to them because we have no idea what their experience is.
Who are you talking to there? Us? Because a lot of people here seem to have a pretty good idea what those experiences are like and if anyone is mocking anyone, I missed it. Not to say that doesn't happen in the wider world, but I don't see it happening here and now.

So, at what point do you think a person should be offered euthanasia? Feeling hopeless is one thing, but "feelings are not facts". How do you draw the line and decide that something is really and truly hopeless? And know for sure, of course, because there are no do overs. Who gets to decide and what's the criteria?
 
@shimmerz I know you aren't suggesting we round up and murder the homeless, I don't think that's what would happen either. I don't think I'll ever see a group of modern day Einsatzgruppen lining up homeless people beside the Bow river and shooting them in.
What I keep trying to say is that I believe if given the choice of providing help with living or help with dying, the easiest social assistance to access will become dying.

I'm not talking about forcing anyone into anything at gun point, I'm talking about when the winter cold sets in, the possibility that the euthanasia clinic will be the one that has vacancies, while the homeless shelter is queued up halfway to Airdrie.
So no, not forced into suicide, enticed, encouraged, strongly motivated to volunteer, only one realistic option. People already don't think about the homeless. Why would the government start pushing the plight of the homeless if they have a brand new way of helping them 'help themselves' permanently?

I absolutely agree with you that more needs to be done, more resources are needed, just more of everything useful is needed, a lot more.

I don't trust the Alberta government to plow the f*cking roads in a timely manner, I sure as hell don't trust it with something so potentially dangerous as euthanasia.

I'm not mocking you, or anything else. I disagree with euthanasia for the purpose you're proposing.
Like I said, you're entitled to a different opinion. I've kept on replying because it read to me that I have not been clear about what I said in the first paragraph of this post about the possibility of government abuse of euthanasia for a vulnerable group of people.
I believe the problem is my being unable to properly articulate my thoughts into words, not your ability to understand them.
 
First of all, I want to thank you , Scout and Neverthesame for acknowledging and responding with a compassionate tone. It has become obvious to me that I am suffering from some real survivors guilt that I didn't realize I had. So thanks for taking it easy on me. I so appreciate that. Next appt with T will be addressing that.

Here is the thing. I don't want people to need to be euthanized. I also don't want to see people unnecessarily suffer. At this point I see it as the lesser evil given the reality of the situation as it stands now, in the part of the country I live in anyway.
I sure as hell don't trust it with something so potentially dangerous as euthanasia.
Me neither. Because these people are being left to die BY the government right now. The way they are doing it, it is out and out murder. THAT's why I am taking the stance I am. I keep trying to say that and this will be the last time I do.

I have immersed myself in this system. Food banks; church dinners; homelessness and housing committees; peer supporters; drop in centres; advocating for these people. Supporting them. I have literally worked full time since gaining my own freedom so that I can assess what can be done. This is absolutely happening and any of us with any brain cells left know exactly what this is. There are very few of us that make it out with our faculties still installed it is such an intense experience. It's an uphill battle sharing this information because nobody WANTS to know. Meanwhile these people (the mentally ill homeless as they are called) are being painted into a corner and it is only a short time before they realize there is no way out but to die because there is nothing left they can do. Literally.

People with PTSD or whatever 'mental illness' homeless people apparently have by default, slide into this not realizing.... or slowly realizing that they are being choked out of any resources that allow for them to support their own lives. Many realize that there is no way out so they suicide.. Of course. There are no words to explain what this is. and what this does to those victimized by it. Our abused young mothers and their children are literally being production lined into this type of life through the shelters. They and their children are being completely set up.

Many of you keep saying that it is us backing murdering and killing by advocating for euthanasia. I am saying; very clearly to anyone who wants to know that murdering and killing of these people is already happening. Not with guns. Instead with withdrawal of the necessities of life. No money. No food. No shelter. No safety. No community. And we step over them as they die on the sidewalks thinking they are a bunch of imbecile, mentally ill, lazy asses.

And what I am saying to you all is that they are paying these drop in centre employees to do the dirty deed of kicking them out into the streets when it is negative a billion degrees outside when we close up for the day. At least 7 of them in my drop in alone this winter died the night of the day they had come into the shelter. We knew the looks om their faces as we closed the door on them. We knew that it wasn't too long for them. You could see it in their eyes. After the desperation one sees deadness. We had one person beg us to help him. 'Sorry sir - not our mandate'.

And what I am trying to help you to see is that it isn't just hopeless. There is literally no hope for these people. And it is no joke.

I survived because a few fairly high ranking 'normal citizens' brought my case to the attention of the powers that be. My therapist was a big player in this and she has made the sacrifice of not joining the Canadian Psychological Society here because by being a part of that society she is not allowed to advocate for her patients safety.

Without her stance on this for herself and her clients I wouldn't be here to type this posting. Because unless you know someone who can get the attention of these funders somehow - you are as good as dead the minute those resources start being stripped away from you.

I am fighting for the right for euthanasia for these people because normal people who still have a voice need to feel the pain of this or these murders and killings will continue to happen because nobody listens to the victims of it. The system is setup for you and I to believe that these people have no f*cking clue what they are talking about. And articles like the one JL posted will be a great help. Because it is painful to think about. And people may just well be compelled to dig deeper and ask more questions.

A member who used to be on this board who was homeless has disappeared on me. Right after her family was sick of supplementing a place for her to live and forced her onto the streets. 3 days after that she went AWOL. That was a year ago. Most of you would recognize the name. It is happening to us with diagnosed PTSD and also it is giving people PTSD who normally wouldn't have had it. It is an extremely traumatizing system.

So let me re-iterate what my stance is here. Until there is actually conversation about the realities of this situation this is going to continue happening. And make no mistake about it. Euthanasia protocol won't lead to murdering and killing of the most vulnerable people. That is already happening.
 
I am fighting for the right for euthanasia for these people because normal people who still have a voice need to feel the pain
I can see using euthanasia in a speech before Parliament, for the shock value. Totally. But not as an actual plan.

Read the article on Finland when you get the chance. It's pretty interesting. One of the tribes did something similar in Minneapolis last winter. First people were allowed to live in a tent encampment, then a warmer, safer structure was set up for the rest the winter. (Recently closed.) They called it a "navigation center". No rules as far as drug or alcohol use, on site access to health care etc and people on site to help navigate the system, find housing & resources etc. I'm sure it wasn't perfect, but I think it was good and I think it shows a better way forward.

I think it's significant that the effort wasn't led by the state. I'd like to think government has good intentions most of the time. (I could be wrong about that). But it's not always very efficient.

There are a lot of big problems in this world @shimmerz and this is surely one of them. Here, I think you're preaching to the choir, maybe more than you realize. A friend used to tell me, "Scout, sometimes you need to ask yourself 'What do I really want? The shear joy of a really good fight? Or to actually get something done?' Because you usually can't accomplish both with the same technique."
 
It’s getting almost impossible to sift out the posts on euthanising the homeless (which seems to have been argued to the point of insanity and is making this incredibly important thread crazy difficult to follow and participate in meaningfully)...but...

I think that the decision of a 16 y-o sufferer of anorexia pretty fascinating. Essentially, she seems to have been asking for support to die, rather than having to do it alone, secretively, and at a much higher emotional cost to loved ones (which is the option I’m currently staring down).

It’s definitely not as simple as that. And while a lot of teens suicide due to mental illness (reality) that doesn’t mean the solution is offering them a more dignified alternative like euthanasia. It’s not that simple.

In this young lady’s case, I also think that the primary diagnosis is relevant. We can jump in and say “but the brain hasn’t finished growing”, or “we know about neuroplasticity”...but this lady seemed pretty clued in to her situation.

There’s some significant differences between ptsd and eating disorders. The most obvious is that eating disorders have the highest mortality rate of all mental illnesses (yup, higher than people suiciding from depression). Eating disorders are fatal a lot of the time. More often than ptsd. And I think that’s relevant.

I think what’s also relevant is that when a person has suffered from severe anorexia from pre-teens, or very early teens, they don’t necessarily have a “more developed brain” to look forward to in their 20s. We know that if a severe eating disorder starts young enough, the growth of organs throughout the body can become arrested. Permanently. I’m probably not the only person here who knows a person who has had lifelong anorexia or bulemia and, while in their 30s or 40s, is terminally stuck in the body of a pre-teen.

When you get to know these people (most often women, if that’s relevant, not sure), you’re looking at a child, talking to a child, interacting with a child. But actually they’re 30-something year old. With a mental illness that has a very high chance of killing them. Even when they don’t want to die. And their most likely future is years of physical and mental pain because of their illness.

So, she didn’t necessarily have a “more developed brain” pr “neuroplasticity” to look forward to. And the ways of medically assessing that are becoming increasingly sophisticated, and she may well have been very well informed about what she had to look forward to in terms of future growth, development, and recovery.

If she’s been anorexic from a young enough age, there may well have been no growth to look forward to.

Dying of starvation is a pretty dang awful way to go. I don’t think I’ve got it in me to condone teens taking their own life because of mental illness. If we can get them a lethal dose of morphine, then by definition, we can get them medical help. And that help should be something other than a lethal needle.

JMHO. But I think some of the truths that us PTSD’ers are fortunate to have in our recovery-arsenal, like, our brain can keep healing and growing, aren’t necessarily the same for the particular eating disorder that this young woman was suffering from. Doesn’t make it right, but it does mean it’s more complicated than, “at 16, she hadn’t even finished developing”.

Because for her, it may be the case that her body and brain would be stuck in pre-pubescence for the rest of her life.
 
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Okay, my first thought if you have cooccurring DID or are suspected to be on that spectrum, what part(who) in a system makes that decision and how does one know if all insiders are on board for such a drastic decision. Yeah- hard for a mental health patient to make a competent decision when they are so depressed they want to die. Wow-interesting thread, though!
 
I'm not real sure about this. My opinion is quite mixed. Do you want die because of PTSD or because you're depressed because of PTSD? That would be my first argument.

N.S. woman pushing for doctor-assisted death for those living with PTSD

"I can't see why (PTSD) would not be included under the current regulations," said Sperry. "It's enduring, it's intolerable suffering if the person can't find a treatment that they are pleased with - all of those things would allow them to make the request.”

N.S. woman pushing for doctor-assisted death for those living with PTSD

This, from a legal view, would be difficult to ever prove due to the sheer number of choices available for treatment. Basically, if you didn't try every available prescription drug, naturopathic, then type of therapy... WOW, that alone would take more than a lifetime if you give each option the required treatment length to determine improvement or not.

What do you think about this?

I think people should be allowed to have doctor assisted death for any reason as long as the pain can be understood as intolerable suffering.
I think PTSD can be hell for people and I can see someone wanting a way out. There is no difference in my mind, of someone killing themselves with drugs and alcohol or killing themselves with doctor assisted suicide.
I am for it.
 
There was a guy in my country with a terminal illness, and they wouldn't cover him for 24 hour care. He fought to get it increased from 15 to 20 hours, but the remaining 4 hours would have been billed to him at $263.50/ day. They never even responded to his appeal. So though he had a young son, he opted for it. It's 100% covered.
 
Not sure if I understand @blackemerald1 ? They approved him for 15 hours, he fought them for 5 more while trying to publically raise funds, they ignored and did not respond in one month to his further correspondence. It's a service or commodity you purchase- no money, no service. There is a push here to privatize all of it, most is across the country. It likely will be.
 
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