Piecing things together

[HealingMama]

PS. I was thinking about you and I left out the most important thing? Why I know this and I know I'm right.

If your circumstances were different you'd be having the same fight. I know this is hard to believe but I have a best friend from high school and he's married about the same amount of time and he's about the same age. Their circumstances are vastly different. He is successful and he has money. He's a strong guy, Very much a type A. But we stayed in touch all these years and during a rough patch on both of our marriages we opened up and it saved both of our marriages.

because in spite of us being so vastly different in terms of circumstances we were having the exact same arguments with our wives and I mean Word for Word.

We both changed how we were dealing with things after we learnt that. It was a really big moment I think for both of us in our marriages. I actually really believed it saved both of them, preserved our families.

Because we all are basically the same as couples in particular. I really hope this helps but more than anything I hope it helps you stop fighting.

Yeah, I believe there's a lot of universality to it.

Which is exactly why I gave my husband a workbook to take leadership on using with me, that he never even looked at. I ask him to read about Gottman method research-based techniques or emotionally focused therapy, both scientifically validated.... so I'm not the only one trying to save the marriage... and he can't be bothered because for some reason men don't think that's a shared responsibility.

"If she would just shut up everything would be fine."

Fine for him, not for me. It should be fine for both of us.

 

[Deanna]

Yeah, I mean, we can go back to having a cold war instead of a hot one I guess.

You're right that he doesn't owe me anything. I made a choice to be here. And made a choice to behave destructively when I felt like he was destroying my life instead of leaving him. I can only control myself.

I've been doing a lot of reading today and I really don't want to give up but I don't want to hurt anymore.

(I mean actually I really really do want to give up because nothing else has helped and I think we just don't work well together and my effort to back off doesn't really get me the kind of relationship I want... but it is hard to actually give up and stick with that position especially since there is a child so I will not be able to even make a clean break.)

I've been reading the thread so I don't want to pop in here and surprise everyone.. But I do agree, you would really like to be divorced, so do it. Being alone is really, not your thing but you're alone now anyway if you don't fight and notice this

 

[HealingMama]

I've been reading the thread so I don't want to pop in here and surprise everyone.. But I do agree, you would really like to be divorced, so do it. Being alone is really, not your thing but you're alone now anyway if you don't fight and notice this

Thank you. I think I would really like to be divorced, but what if it's just a grass is greener thing. What if these are problems that I will just recreate in my next relationship.

I mean certainly I would never again commit to someone that can't be financially self-sufficient or falls apart when life throws a curve ball because it's been so hard being the backbone all the time and I am definitely not constitutionally set up for that. I would probably only date someone that is psychologically minded and strives for self-awareness because being with someone that avoids those things has been difficult.

But some of this stuff might just show up again.

Also, he is likely to move ten hours away where his other children live so I'll also be solo parenting like... all the time. And he's so out of sight out of mind that I'm not likely to see any financial support the courts deem necessary.

He's not all bad. He's a more patient and generous person than I am, and he really did stick by me when I was acting out a lot. And the last six months he has made strong efforts to address the areas that I've said I cannot continue to tolerate. (But why is the relationship still such shit if we are both doing so much work?)

I should also share that my view of relationship and intentions in others is grossly more cynical than his. I am often viewing his actions in terms of power/control like leaving the room when I'm trying to communicate, and he denies operating on that level. I am often saying are you doing x because of y yucky mindset and he says no, he's doing it because he loves me and can't talk to me when I'm acting like this or something along those lines.

Not sure why you'd say being alone isn't really my thing? I actually find it much easier. Nobody there to let you down if you have to do everything yourself in the first place.

 

[Deanna]

Thank you. I think I would really like to be divorced, but what if it's just a grass is greener thing. What if these are problems that I will just recreate in my next relationship.

I mean certainly I would never again commit to someone that can't be financially self-sufficient or falls apart when life throws a curve ball because it's been so hard being the backbone all the time and I am definitely not constitutionally set up for that. I would probably only date someone that is psychologically minded and strives for self-awareness because being with someone that avoids those things has been difficult.

But some of this stuff might just show up again.

Also, he is likely to move ten hours away where his other children live so I'll also be solo parenting like... all the time. And he's so out of sight out of mind that I'm not likely to see any financial support the courts deem necessary.

He's not all bad. He's a more patient and generous person than I am, and he really did stick by me when I was acting out a lot. And the last six months he has made strong efforts to address the areas that I've said I cannot continue to tolerate. (But why is the relationship still such shit if we are both doing so much work?)

Not sure why you'd say being alone isn't really my thing? I actually find it much easier. Nobody there to let you down if you have to do everything yourself in the first place.

Right ( last paragraph) but I see you with a better fit. ( someone else) down the road. Work on yourself, make a decision and stick to the decision. ( no in between) Divorce is not as bad as u think. I've been there 3 times. Found the love of my life the 4th time.. But we were never married. Turns out I have a hard time being married in the first place. It is best that you make a decision on divorce or not. ( love the guy u are with)

 

[somerandomguy]

Which is exactly why I gave my husband a workbook to take leadership on using with me, that he never even looked at. I ask him to read about Gottman method research-based techniques or emotionally focused therapy, both scientifically validated

You can't fix him.

Maybe the fact that you're telling him to get his shit in gear is the reason that he isn't getting his shit in gear?

He's going to have to figure it out for himself. Meanwhile, you are allowed to set boundaries about what is acceptable and not acceptable for you. Set boundary, tell him what the boundary is and what you will do if your boundary is crossed. Then do it.

 

[HealingMama]

Right ( last paragraph) but I see you with a better fit. ( someone else) down the road. Work on yourself, make a decision and stick to the decision. ( no in between) Divorce is not as bad as u think. I've been there 3 times. Found the love of my life the 4th time.. But we were never married. Turns out I have a hard time being married in the first place. It is best that you make a decision on divorce or not. ( love the guy u are with)

Absolutely right that I need to make a decision and love the person I've chosen to be with. I think sometimes marriage was a bad call for me also. It seems like an excuse to trap someone and get complacent rather than a chance to grow together.

You can't fix him.

Maybe the fact that you're telling him to get his shit in gear is the reason that he isn't getting his shit in gear?

He's going to have to figure it out for himself. Meanwhile, you are allowed to set boundaries about what is acceptable and not acceptable for you. Set boundary, tell him what the boundary is and what you will do if your boundary is crossed. Then do it.

Yeah, you are correct I can't fix him. The workbook and the research was a request to have him help fix US. Like, don't make me be the only one trying to find solutions.

I'm not very good with boundaries. I should try to get better about that. It's hard to have a boundary with negligent behavior because the problem is a void not an intrusive activity.

 

[Deanna]

Absolutely right that I need to make a decision and love the person I've chosen to be with. I think sometimes marriage was a bad call for me also. It seems like an excuse to trap someone and get complacent rather than a chance to grow together.

Bingo! Fear of entrapment

 

[Mach123]

I totally admit by the way I married because I was afraid and I didn't divorce for the same reason? Is being chicken a good reason to hang in? IDK. I'll probably never know. I just figured I never stuck with anything. Now I'm stuck with this. Is it all bad? No. Is it ever easy? No, not really but life isn't. I like to remember sometimes it's been 30 years, one (or both) of us could have been dead for years or gotten sick, you know? (and I did) I do think persons are way to cavalier about divorce but, if you think you can do it and get away with it why not? (Not you personally or anyone in this thread) but you know what I mean. Keep getting married you'll get it eventually.
I was just always afraid it'd make things worse (again).

There is no easy or one size fits all answer.

 

[HealingMama]

I wish I had a way to know how much of my relationship problems are from disorganized attachment and how much is from normal marital crap and how much is from "this is objectively a bad relationship that's not likely to improve enough to be a source of strength/comfort/wellbeing."

I found myself looking at a missed call from my mother and thinking about how I'm so socially avoidant, that if we divorce my son's connection to family is going to change.

I also find myself thinking why can't things just be comfortable and easy. I don't know if I'm afraid of happiness or what.

I have these fantasies of the emotionally self aware partner that Incan come to about problems and have him respond "appropriately" but meanwhile I'm a big clusterf*ck myself. I shouldn't expect more than I show up with myself.

I mean from the outside you would have no idea the instability I'm dealing with. I don't have a bunch of drama in my life aside from my marriage issues. I don't bond closely with people but I don't have all the trappings of a drama queen falling around me either.

It doesn't help that my husband's issues make him rebel against routine, and his work is shift work, so there's no stability coming from his end of things.

But if I'm totally honest with myself, calm and stable is terrifying. He says I'm addicted to conflict. I think I'm just that afraid of being surprised by something that I have this obsessive need to drive out all the garbage so I can face it on my own terms.

I try to convince myself that I'm apparently normal but it's such a load of shit.

 

[HealingMama]

New goals. Safety, stability.

Some of my behavior is a common reaction to being in a relationship with someone that has ADHD. Some of it is exacerbated by my history. I have some trouble self regulating (hahaha that's quite an understatement).

I want to feel comfortable in my own house, and comfortable with calmness. I want to be able to pick my battles and let things go not obsessively try to control the situation.

Some of that will need to happen in couples therapy but I can work on myself now while I wait.

I decided to give it one more year. That's what I read last night - if you're wanting to divorce put in one more year of wholehearted effort, so that you'll know you've really given it your best shot. I mean I think divorcing is probably going to be the end result but, I did say we would try couples counseling once more. It's not really fair to go back on that even though I have so much rage at how long he takes to do things.

I'm too chicken to pull the trigger right now, and it's not fair to bring up divorce so much. No wonder he is reactive. I am not good at creating safety for him. (because he isn't creating it for me with consistency but I digress)

Also, if we are going to fail, I want to fail well. I want to use this time to heal some of the damage we have both done rather than end in a blaze of destructive fire.

Love is about two imperfect people accepting their imperfections.

I texted him last night. He was working late. He sent me a video of his own volition of him working saying "in case you had any anxiety about what I was doing".

He works with a lot of young women and is a likeable guy so he gets a lot of offers and I often wonder when our issues will push him into someone else's ... Space. But I didn't ask for that reassurance. I just wondered when he would be home because my hypervigilence makes it harder to sleep if there is ambiguity about who will be where when.

So this guy just had a huge stressful conversation with me, and still does that for me. (yes he is enabling me... That's another problem to be solved when we are both functioning better.)

He still says he loves me even when we are fighting. I often don't believe it.

Anyway, this board is right I need to get my present figured out before I try to deal with my past. (Even though I'm quite sure some of my obnoxious control and reactivity is coming from the fear of another unexpected loss that could be processed with EMDR but I don't need to risk too much direct work on that right now.)

Onward, upward, inward.

It is safe to choose to live my best life.

 

[HealingMama]

He's going to make this really hard ?

Thankful I just taught some yoga or I would be very dysregulated right now.

Silence from me 8:30 until 12:30, because he said he was going to sleep today after being up really late. Then, via text:

Me: My 8pm online therapy patient had to cancel. If you want to play games tonight you can just leave before I get home then there's no risk of sabotaging it.

Me: If you can bring kid to the gym on your way to games that would be great.

Me: Please acknowledge and coordinate plans in a timely manner so I'm not sitting with too much ambiguity.

(One hour goes by then I send: )
?
I've placed almost zero expectations on you today, but the lack of communication is difficult.

him:
You asked me what I was doing and I told you I would be sleeping. Me doing exactly what I told you I would be doing does not constitute a crisis.

?
That's like basically the only thing he has said to me all day.

Let's just say that I'm really angry.

What an escalating thing to say!

 

[HealingMama]

Things I did "wrong"

I called him a jerk and an ahole for making that the first real thing he's said all day.
Allowed his need to be right and justified in everything crappy he does to interfere with my happiness.
Assume he's capable of seeing cause and effect of his actions. He's clearly not.
Expect him to want to behave in a civil manner.
Allowed the unfinished business of all the other communication deficits to influence my emotions about this one.
Didn't call down when he apologized - or "apologized" because he still doesn't seem to understand why that was a problem.

Things I want to do that won't help
Talk more
Force him to admit what he did wrong
Force him to understand my side
Berate him for pretending to want a functional relationship then dumping on it at the earliest opportunity
Rage at him for saying something inflammatory when he loves to complain about how often *I* pick fights

Things I will do
Go to the gym
Avoid him
Try not to cry
Remind myself I said I would try to give it a year

Values being compromised
Justice and fairness - it isn't fair for him to communicate so badly all the time then imply that I'm the problem for wanting basic information. I'm right to want the basic info needed to coordinate the days activities.

It really hurts to have someone that's supposed to be my teammate try to imply that absolutely nothing I'm ever upset about is valid. I'm always just making drama, I'm crazy, I'm too needy. I just wanted enough information to manage myself today in enough time that I could actually plan my own life. There is nothing wrong with that.

I'm so tired of him treating me like there's no validity or reason to anything I have to say or want because he needs to be right.

Well I just sent another text fukc it's hard not to talk but clearly talking won't get me anywhere.

I am feeling frustrated, hurt and hopeless. How am I supposed to survive a year like this?