Childhood How long did your "crisis" state last, once you started having flashbacks and nightmares of the CSA?

[joeylittle]

A few thoughts...

I am unable to sleep tonight. I took the Prazosin over five hours ago, and still no sleep. This is torture...I've been trying to ignore these messed-up sensations, by reading stuff on this site and posting when appropriate. However, these feelings are overwhelming me. And I don't know what to do to help myself.

Sleep hygiene. It's importance cannot be over-stressed. The element that is hardest for people, it seems, is getting away from their screens. The rule of thumb is at least 2 hours before bed, stop using screens. During one of those two hours, find something quiet and occupying. For some, that's reading (book). But anything will do. You mentioned playing words with friends helped make you sleepy...you might try getting some puzzle books, and work on those. Crossword puzzles really helped me. You want your mind to be occupied, whatever it is. Use the other hour for a night routine/ritual. Adjust times as needed.

Prazosin can/should help with getting to sleep, as well as deepening sleep quality, which is what helps with the nightmare reduction. You've just started it, and your dose may need to be adjusted. Talk with your doctor.

When you find sleep just isn't working - don't focus on relaxing, you're likely to fail at that point. Go back to your quiet mental activity - puzzle, book, whatever. Now is NOT the time to be wrestling with your trauma, thinking about managing the trauma, etc. Avoid fixating on that. Try and avoid getting back onto the computer. Experiment with a second quiet mental activity, this is where listening to low-level audiobooks or podcasts can be really helpful. (If you're wide awake and really struggling, need a connection - then you might want to get online. Just know that it's going to make sleep tougher.)

And if it's just not happening - the best piece of advice I ever got for this was, to just decide I'm not going to be able to get to sleep, but I can lie down, let my body rest - and that will do some good. Sometimes, this even results in sleep.

Your daytime habits will matter as well, especially physical activity.

Hope some of that helps.

I'm a little paranoid that people might read it and judge me, 'cause there's some pretty messed-up stuff that happened growing-up. And when I got older, well, let's just say, things were not normal. Also, I think if I did that and someone figured out my real-life identity it would kill me. The idea terrifies me.

Just FYI - members can have up to three diaries. There's the Trauma Diary area, which can be read by both members and guests. The members trauma diary is only readable by members, and not indexed by search engines - so, there's an increase in privacy level, there. The third is the private diary, which no-one has access to except yourself and the admins (that would be me and Anthony), and we don't read those actively.

As far as the trauma diary thing, l am writing tons of pages every day in my journal trying to purge all the things I have kept stuffed down all these years. So, I think that might be redundant.

Yep, could be.

My psychologist insist there had to be warning signs, but I've analyzed the f*ck out of our relationship, and can't find any.

There may have been, and you could not (and still cannot) identify them. That's really pretty common. I think you want to focus on what your psychologist is trying to accomplish, by telling you that there would have been warning signs. Are they asking you to figure out what those were? Or are they letting you know that just because you couldn't see them, it doesn't mean that they weren't there. In other words - you weren't the cause of the abuse.

? I'm hoping they are trying to make the latter point.

 

[Wonder Woman]

A few thoughts...


Sleep hygiene. It's importance cannot be over-stressed. The element that is hardest for people, it seems, is getting away from their screens. The rule of thumb is at least 2 hours before bed, stop using screens. During one of those two hours, find something quiet and occupying. For some, that's reading (book). But anything will do. You mentioned playing words with friends helped make you sleepy...you might try getting some puzzle books, and work on those. Crossword puzzles really helped me. You want your mind to be occupied, whatever it is. Use the other hour for a night routine/ritual. Adjust times as needed.

Prazosin can/should help with getting to sleep, as well as deepening sleep quality, which is what helps with the nightmare reduction. You've just started it, and your dose may need to be adjusted. Talk with your doctor.

When you find sleep just isn't working - don't focus on relaxing, you're likely to fail at that point. Go back to your quiet mental activity - puzzle, book, whatever. Now is NOT the time to be wrestling with your trauma, thinking about managing the trauma, etc. Avoid fixating on that. Try and avoid getting back onto the computer. Experiment with a second quiet mental activity, this is where listening to low-level audiobooks or podcasts can be really helpful. (If you're wide awake and really struggling, need a connection - then you might want to get online. Just know that it's going to make sleep tougher.)

And if it's just not happening - the best piece of advice I ever got for this was, to just decide I'm not going to be able to get to sleep, but I can lie down, let my body rest - and that will do some good. Sometimes, this even results in sleep.

Your daytime habits will matter as well, especially physical activity.

Hope some of that helps.
Just FYI - members can have up to three diaries. There's the Trauma Diary area, which can be read by both members and guests. The members trauma diary is only readable by members, and not indexed by search engines - so, there's an increase in privacy level, there. The third is the private diary, which no-one has access to except yourself and the admins (that would be me and Anthony), and we don't read those actively.
Yep, could be.
There may have been, and you could not (and still cannot) identify them. That's really pretty common. I think you want to focus on what your psychologist is trying to accomplish, by telling you that there would have been warning signs. Are they asking you to figure out what those were? Or are they letting you know that just because you couldn't see them, it doesn't mean that they weren't there. In other words - you weren't the cause of the abuse.

? I'm hoping they are trying to make the latter point.

Wow, joeylittle; thank you for your thoughtful response.

I used to be super on-point with sleep hygiene, but with my body memories and other stuff getting worse that's gone to the wayside.

When I'm about to fall asleep and my body jolts me awake, I know I won't be able to even attempt sleep for at least a couple of hours. Probably an adrenaline rush, or something.

I have a teleconference appointment with my psychiatrist on Monday. So, I will talk with him about other options.

My psychologist suggested I make a list of everything I remembered about that supportive ex-boyfriend who strangled me; list things he did that hurt my feelings or confused me (not much), and another list of ways he supported me (still working that one). I don't know if we are going to go over it Monday, or finish with my more recently unearthed memories from childhood. (I think we might be backing off that childhood stuff, but I feel like that's where my body is stuck.) I'm doing telephone sessions with her twice a week now, because of all this stuff overwhelming me.

If I had to list my most pressing needs, in order, it would this:

1. Sleep

2. Working through CSA /rape junk

3. Figuring out that relationship, if that is even possible

Again, thank you for your help. I appreciate it.

 

[Ronin]

What is the point then, if anyone could snap and attack me?

Because this itself is a distorted belief.

Most people aren't abusive criminal pricks. Not even if you push them.

So what makes sense is be aware, be cautious, avoid preventable risks and damages, but not socializing as a whole.

Most people ain't evil.

 

[Wonder Woman]

Because this itself is a distorted belief.

Most people aren't abusive criminal pricks. Not even if you push them.

So what makes sense is be aware, be cautious, avoid preventable risks and damages, but not socializing as a whole.

Most people ain't evil.

I was being careful. Very careful.

 

[Wonder Woman]

Because this itself is a distorted belief.

Most people aren't abusive criminal pricks. Not even if you push them.

So what makes sense is be aware, be cautious, avoid preventable risks and damages, but not socializing as a whole.

Most people ain't evil.

I haven’t had enough sleep to explain our relationship in great detail but here it is in a nutshell:

1. We were co-workers for 6 months

2. We developed a friendship months 6-15ish

3. He asked me out after knowing each other for almost 1.5 years; I liked him; he was kind to me, coworkers, and others (observed this/experienced it)

4. We dated about 6 weeks, before our 1st kiss

5. About 4.5 months into our relationship I needed surgery; he took-off work to be with me, and he took care of me post-op

6. Six-weeks after my surgery; he went to post-op appt. w/me & held my hand when doctor gave my upsetting news

7. He continued being a good boyfriend

8. About 14.5 months into dating we 1st had sex (in the months before, we had talked about my history of being abused/raped & set things to being okay/good for me, because I had never had consensual sex before) there were some things I couldn't/didn’t anticipate, but he was kind, loving, supportive, and a gentleman.

9. About 1.5 years into dating, one of my best friends (since middle-school) was murdered (strangled); reminder: I had been strangled before I was raped; he helped me through this & did not guilt-trip me b/c I couldn't handle going to the funeral.

10. A little after my friend's death, my roommate's drug use increased, throwing wild parties, & I no longer felt safe at home. He helped me find my own place, and paid the serurity deposit for me.

11. Our relationship was strong & healthy; he continued hanging w/his friends, weekly card games, going to concerts, and stuff; I still hung out with my friends, did volunteer work, and went to school at night; sometimes we did stuff w/his friends & sometimes we did stuff w/mine.

12. The only on-going difficulties we ever had were related to my history of being abused. Stuff related to sex mostly (not getting into gory details, but it took a toll on both of us) but my general difficulty relaxing & being on edge/easily startled, also were putting a strain on things.

13. He broke-up with me (trying to remember the time line, maybe 2-2.5 years; I'll remember later) with tears in his eyes. He said it wasn't a matter of not loving me, because he said he loved me dearly and more than anyone he had ever loved before. But he said being with me was just too painful, and he couldn't imagine spending the rest of his life suffering this way. He said he was sorry I had to suffer, and he knew he was leaving me to endure it alone, but he couldn't save me; he could, however, save himself. He said I was like a China-doll, very beautiful, but very fagile. You keep China-dolls safe high-up on a shelf, where you can admire their beauty, he said. He said everyone knows you don't play with a China-doll, if you do she'll break. (His words cut me deep; I was in shock; I was unable to cry, because I was not expecting for him to end things over sex).

14. About 4 months after we broke-up, we started talking again. He invited me to dinner, and we caught-up (we no longer were co-workers, at this point). No talk during dinner about getting back together, but he insisted on paying for my meal when the check came. Dinner was difficult for me, because I was still in love w/him, and I remember sitting on my hands to resist my urge to touch him.

15. I invited him to my place. He barely made it through the door, before he was professing his undying love for me. He said he couldn't stop thinking about me, and that he loved me in spite of himself. He said he needed the time apart to realize that he'd rather be suffering with me, than in agony without me. He said he needed the time apart to realize he didn't want to be with anybody else. He said he wanted to be with me forever, and he wanted to marry me someday. (I started crying as he spoke, because that was how I felt, too. And I told him that.) That night, we talked, and kissed, and cuddled.

I need a break, now. All these years, and it still hurts, because I know how it ends.

 

[Ronin]

You have warning signs right there...

Very fast becoming enmeshed in your life, ALL aspects of your life.

Getting you be vulnerable about trauma and sharing of it...

Then exploiting that vulnerability and playing 'supportive' when you needed it most / suddenly aalways being available (a hint: non predatory friends / partners don't always perfect sync up with trauma times. Because have own lives in which sooo much goes on.)

Fetishizing, objectifying you, guilt tripping you for trauma & blaming you for it, shaming you as 'too fragile' and crying crocodile tears about how you are wronging HIM, the poor dramatic motherf*cker, you dare being soo difficult when you don't want to live under his thumb with everything he 'helps' to organize...

And so much more, I'm continuing reading.

The warning signs were there.
If you change the assumption he was being helpful and cared for YOU
And replace with: He cared for himself and that all was to con you and get you dependent on him.

That insistence on paying / guilting you & controling you financially is just another abuser hallmark.

And 'undying love' and similar big emotional declarations, forever ever afters, are a sureway way to spot a creep.

That stuff is normal love declarations only in kids & teens. For adults? Spells out issues with relating, reality, or controling others, big deal. A.k.a. Don't walk... Run.

 

[Wonder Woman]

You have warning signs right there...

Very fast becoming enmeshed in your life, ALL aspects of your life.

Getting you be vulnerable about trauma and sharing of it...

Then exploiting that vulnerability and playing 'supportive' when you needed it most / suddenly aalways being available (a hint: non predatory friends / partners don't always perfect sync up with trauma times. Because have own lives in which sooo much goes on.)

Fetishizing, objectifying you, guilt tripping you for trauma & blaming you for it, shaming you as 'too fragile' and crying crocodile tears about how you are wronging HIM, the poor dramatic motherf*cker, you dare being soo difficult when you don't want to live under his thumb with everything he 'helps' to organize...

And so much more, I'm continuing reading.

The warning signs were there.
If you change the assumption he was being helpful and cared for YOU
And replace with: He cared for himself and that all was to con you and get you dependent on him.

That insistence on paying / guilting you & controling you financially is just another abuser hallmark.

Maybe you missed the part where we were friends, long before dating.

My family were not going to help me post-op & getting nursing care was too expensive. I was a young adult and this was medically urgent surgery that I needed.
I initiated opening-up, because we were becoming increasingly physically intimate. I wanted to tell him, because I wanted to have sex with him, but since it was always abusive and/or violent in the past, I was scared of what it might be like. We talked about things. It's not liked we rushed into it. And I knew certain things would not feel safe for me, so I needed to talk about them, make sure we were on the same page. I didn't want a bad first time with consensual sex.

I wasn’t financially dependent upon him. If he wanted to control me, he could have asked me to move-in with him. But he knew, I wanted my own place. So he looked at apartments with me, and the security deposit for the place I chose (near my job, btw, not his place) was 2 months rent. I didn't have that, but he did, and he offered & I accepted. I honestly don't see anything wrong with that.

We were young. I think most young people go over the top a little when they are in love.

I don't see how he "played" supportive; he was supportive.

He didn't tell me what to do. He supported me in doing the things I chose for myself.

He had a supportive family. I didn't. So, he helped me. Guess what? My friends helped me, too. He just helped me the most, but he was my boyfriend.

Yeah, calling me a China-doll really p*ssed me off. And I hated that he called me fragile. To be fair, things in the bedroom were really not good just before that break-up. Without getting into too much detail, I was vomiting at very bad times. I was having a hard time facing some difficult revelations about the abuse/rapes.

I looked into counseling at that point, but it was too expensive. I did a couple sessions, but couldn’t afford to keep going. Plus, I didn’t feel comfortable opening-up with thar counselor about such personal stuff right away.

 

[Friday]

Everything I've read about domestic / intimate partner violence indicates that people just don't one day strangle someone, they commit other acts of violence first. Everything I read said this. So, it makes sense that something in me triggered him to hurt me like that. Like my evilness influenced him.

Meant Kindly

So... in all you’re reading... do you just sort of skip over the part where “It was good for the first few years” or “it was good until we got married” or “it was good until we had kids”?

Or did you maybe not believe them?

People outside of domestic violence often don’t seem to be able to realize how 3D, flesh & blood, REAL the people are involved. Sure, there’s the occasional lunatic where the violence starts on day 1 (and read lunatic however you please, either or both of them). But for the most part? It’s a creeping gradual thing. Meaning that people are absolutely telling the truth when the first few years are good. Or until something comes along that shatters the delicate balance that kept things good. My ex husband? Was a good partner, and a good father... until we got married. A piece of paper shouldn’t mean as much as much as it did... but to him, it did. The moment we got married we became his property. A burden. And one he hated. Nothing had changed, but everything changed. Took years to work that out. One of those things that’s clear as day in retrospect, but just confusing as hell, makes no sense in the moment.

The increasing levels of violence you’ve read about? Sure... sometimes that starts as just shoving by, or a growled “MOVE”, and other forms of disrespect. Or a pinch that might have been playful a 1,000 times before, being rough or mean. And working it’s way on upward to physical assaults and worse. OR? It can start with physical assaults. Just dropping out of plain blue sky... they get mad and backhand you across a room. Or shouting at you to shut up- shut up- shut up... grab your neck and make you shut up. And then? It gets worse. From THERE it gets worse. If you stay.

But first? It usually gets better.

The death by a thousand cuts tends to be an Infintismal movement of boundaries. Normal behaviors you’d roll you eyes at, that everyone does here and there, becoming more and more common, until you don’t even sigh or roll your eyes or ask for patience it’s just them. It’s how they do things. And you’re okay with that. Because you got used to it. And on and on, each boundary push so tiny and so prolonged, it’s a frog boiling in water.

Explosive violence, on the other hand? Being backhanded across a room, or strangled, etc.? On paper, sure, it’s easy to 2D it. Because they’re flashy events. But when you live it? The background is usually YEARS of love, and trust, and friendship built up gradually over time. It’s such a mind-breaking outlier to how they “really” are, so completely opposite to everything you know about them, and yourself, that most people’s minds refuse to process it. Because it simply doesn’t make sense.

Explosive violence tends to split 2 ways. Hell on earth, that break in the damn spelling what every day is going to look like from that day on (rare, very very rare)... or the “Cycle of Abuse”. Which I’m certain you’ve read about. Explode, apologize, everything is good for awhile. Explode, apologize, everything is good for awhile. And on and on. How long thay “for awhile” is? Varies. It can be days, weeks, months, years. Yep. YEARS.

People’s whose violence cycle is short? Everything tends to get bad very quickly. Whether they’re violent once a month, or once a week... the pattern becomes self evident within just a couple years.

People whose violence cycle is long? It can -and often is- 2 or 3 years before the next one. And the next one. Looooooong gaps. In the beginning.

In all your reading I’m sure you‘be come across the stories where either it was “good for the first few years, and then they started losing their temper. Not very often at first, but after a few more years, it was just something you came to expect” &/or “they were violent a couple times in the first decade we were married... but it didn’t get bad until...”

That your brain couldn’t reconcile the man you knew, and the explosive act? So much so that it “must” be something you did, must be your fault? I’m sorry to say, hon, but that’s CLASSIC domestic violence. Not something you would have never read about. But textbook.

 

[Wonder Woman]

Meant Kindly

So... in all you’re reading... do you just sort of skip over the part where “It was good for the first few years” or “it was good until we got married” or “it was good until we had kids”?

Or did you maybe not believe them?

People outside of domestic violence often don’t seem to be able to realize how 3D, flesh & blood, REAL the people are involved. Sure, there’s the occasional lunatic where the violence starts on day 1 (and read lunatic however you please, either or both of them). But for the most part? It’s a creeping gradual thing. Meaning that people are absolutely telling the truth when the first few years are good. Or until something comes along that shatters the delicate balance that kept things good. My ex husband? Was a good partner, and a good father... until we got married. A piece of paper shouldn’t mean as much as much as it did... but to him, it did. The moment we got married we became his property. A burden. And one he hated. Nothing had changed, but everything changed. Took years to work that out. One of those things that’s clear as day in retrospect, but just confusing as hell, makes no sense in the moment.

The increasing levels of violence you’ve read about? Sure... sometimes that starts as just shoving by, or a growled “MOVE”, and other forms of disrespect. Or a pinch that might have been playful a 1,000 times before, being rough or mean. And working it’s way on upward to physical assaults and worse. OR? It can start with physical assaults. Just dropping out of plain blue sky... they get mad and backhand you across a room. Or shouting at you to shut up- shut up- shut up... grab your neck and make you shut up. And then? It gets worse. From THERE it gets worse. If you stay.

But first? It usually gets better.

The death by a thousand cuts tends to be an Infintismal movement of boundaries. Normal behaviors you’d roll you eyes at, that everyone does here and there, becoming more and more common, until you don’t even sigh or roll your eyes or ask for patience it’s just them. It’s how they do things. And you’re okay with that. Because you got used to it. And on and on, each boundary push so tiny and so prolonged, it’s a frog boiling in water.

Explosive violence, on the other hand? Being backhanded across a room, or strangled, etc.? On paper, sure, it’s easy to 2D it. Because they’re flashy events. But when you live it? The background is usually YEARS of love, and trust, and friendship built up gradually over time. It’s such a mind-breaking outlier to how they “really” are, so completely opposite to everything you know about them, and yourself, that most people’s minds refuse to process it. Because it simply doesn’t make sense.

Explosive violence tends to split 2 ways. Hell on earth, that break in the damn spelling what every day is going to look like from that day on (rare, very very rare)... or the “Cycle of Abuse”. Which I’m certain you’ve read about. Explode, apologize, everything is good for awhile. Explode, apologize, everything is good for awhile. And on and on. How long thay “for awhile” is? Varies. It can be days, weeks, months, years. Yep. YEARS.

People’s whose violence cycle is short? Everything tends to get bad very quickly. Whether they’re violent once a month, or once a week... the pattern becomes self evident within just a couple years.

People whose violence cycle is long? It can -and often is- 2 or 3 years before the next one. And the next one. Looooooong gaps. In the beginning.

In all your reading I’m sure you‘be come across the stories where either it was “good for the first few years, and then they started losing their temper. Not very often at first, but after a few more years, it was just something you came to expect” &/or “they were violent a couple times in the first decade we were married... but it didn’t get bad until...”

That your brain couldn’t reconcile the man you knew, and the explosive act? So much so that it “must” be something you did, must be your fault? I’m sorry to say, hon, but that’s CLASSIC domestic violence. Not something you would have never read about. But textbook.

I agree with you. It was intimate partner violence. I left, because I knew if he did it once, he could do it again. I knew I would never be able to trust him again.

The thing that confuses me is that he was never rough or violent before. Everything I read says that abusers start small and build-up to increasingly more violent attacks. His first, and only, attack on me was to strangle/almost kill me.

 

[Ronin]

The 'start small' doesn't mean just physical acts.

It can mean attitude toward you.
Not all expressed in ways you would easily spot as disrespect.

 

[Friday]

The 'start small' doesn't mean just physical acts.

It can mean attitude toward you.
Not all expressed in ways you would easily spot as disrespect.

1. This. ^^^^

The thing that confuses me is that he was never rough or violent before. Everything I read says that abusers start small and build-up to increasingly more violent attacks. His first, and only, attack on me was to strangle/almost kill me.

2. Strangling someone is -very often- the small thing someone starts with.

Because he “just” strangled you. He didn’t strangle you, beat you, & repeatedly rape you over the course of hours, did he? Nor -after he was done venting- drag you around by the hair showing you the “mess you made”, with all the smashed pieces of furniture and broken glass cutting ribbons across your your knees and arms, until he decides you understand you had BETTER have this filthy pig sty cleaned up by the time he gets back (which means losing another job, because you won’t be able to do both; clean up and get to work) to leaving you a bloody broken mess in the tub... to piss blood for the next 3 days, only be able to talk after 2 days, and for the next 36 hours crying and wincing desperately trying to fix things before it reeeeeally gets bad. Only after a week do you find out he’s drained your secret bank account, and leant your car to his cousin.

No matter how bad something is? It can always get worse.

If that’s his “small starting off point” that things were going to get worse from? You might have to wait 5 or 10 years for the above scene to be your life. But you were smart, didn’t wait for it to get even worse (because being strangled is bad f*cking enough, thanks!), and got out after once.

Getting out after once doesn’t mean that broke all the rules of getting increasingly worse, so therefore it doesn’t qualify. It means either you didn’t notice the early signs (like a lot of people don’t), or you had a good first few years, and didn’t give it the chance to get increasingly worse, once it started going bad.

 

[Wonder Woman]

1. This. ^^^^



2. Strangling someone is -very often- the small thing someone starts with.

Because he “just” strangled you. He didn’t strangle you, beat you, & repeatedly rape you over the course of hours, did he? Nor -after he was done venting- drag you around by the hair showing you the “mess you made”, with all the smashed pieces of furniture and broken glass cutting ribbons across your your knees and arms, until he decides you understand you had BETTER have this filthy pig sty cleaned up by the time he gets back (which means losing another job, because you won’t be able to do both; clean up and get to work) to leaving you a bloody broken mess in the tub... to piss blood for the next 3 days, only be able to talk after 2 days, and for the next 36 hours crying and wincing desperately trying to fix things before it reeeeeally gets bad. Only after a week do you find out he’s drained your secret bank account, and leant your car to his cousin.

No matter how bad something is? It can always get worse.

If that’s his “small starting off point” that things were going to get worse from? You might have to wait 5 or 10 years for the above scene to be your life. But you were smart, didn’t wait for it to get even worse (because being strangled is bad f*cking enough, thanks!), and got out after once.

Getting out after once doesn’t mean that broke all the rules of getting increasingly worse, so therefore it doesn’t qualify. It means either you didn’t notice the early signs (like a lot of people don’t), or you had a good first few years, and didn’t give it the chance to get increasingly worse, once it started going bad.

Your description of getting worse seems to miss the point that I lost consciousness. I don't think it can get too much worse than being seconds from death.

Most likely, everyone is right, I missed signs that he was capable of this. My problem is I don't know how to see these signs. I've been trying for years.

I haven’t dated in over 20 years, because I'm painfully aware I will end up in another abusive relationship. All because I don’t know how to spot an abuser.

Abusers are drawn to me for some reason. They find me. I've been sexually harassed (to varying degrees) at various workplaces. Even after I earned my degree and my higher level certifications, while working in a helping profession. By all accounts, those perpetrators we good men, but they treated me terribly.

I'm not going to get into the rest, because it just makes me feel hopeless. And doomed. The world may be a safe place for most, but for some reason it isn't safe for me.