Fibro Is Brain Jogging Related to Fibromyalgia and Brain Fog

[spinningmytires]

@spinningmytires - I doubt that what you're describing has a clear relationship to fibro; it's got very clear correlations to a number of neurological processing disorders, as you've rightly pointed out. I'm curious - is there any connection that your doctors have discussed with you between your specific kinds of processing difficulties, and something like complex regional pain syndrome?

I just searched these symptoms and yet, my muscle stiffness and soreness pain was always equal, as in both legs, both feet and in my lower back. The classic fibro tender spots within the body I never seemed to have.

Then too, these symptoms would always come and go, according any unusual excessive physical activity. Then for several hours after such an excessive activity I would be suffering from extreme muscle stiffness and often a burning and tingling sensation in my legs. Other muscles were less affected. Sometimes the soles of my feet would be so painful that I could hardly walk. When I was stressed or when lacking sleep it would worsen. But other than the painful muscle stiffness and burning sensations these other symptoms aren't similar to my own experience.

And no, this has never been discussed with my doctors. Years ago, my PCP was always telling me that I shouldn't be having these symptoms. He also said that if he hadn't known better he would say I had lupus, though he said he knew that I didn't.

 

[joeylittle]

And no, this has never been discussed with my doctors. Years ago, my PCP was always telling me that I shouldn't be having these symptoms.

So - are you wondering if your 'brain jogging' is causing you to have physical pain?

 

[spinningmytires]

So - are you wondering if your 'brain jogging' is causing you to have physical pain?

Yes. This is exactly what I was wondering. If anything, my 'brain jogging' will increase my stress-levels when attempting to process very difficult and confusing information. And might I be unknowingly over-exciting my brain's pain signals during these brain jogging attempts. This might also contribute to mental fatigue.

 

[TruthSeeker]

@spinningmytires - I doubt that what you're describing has a clear relationship to fibro; it's got very clear correlations to a number of neurological processing disorders, as you've rightly pointed out. I'm curious - is there any connection that your doctors have discussed with you between your specific kinds of processing difficulties, and something like complex regional pain syndrome?

Yes. This is exactly what I was wondering. If anything, my 'brain jogging' will increase my stress-levels when attempting to process very difficult and confusing information. And might I be unknowingly over-exciting my brain's pain signals during these brain jogging attempts. This might also contribute to mental fatigue.

Okay.....I'm going to take a leap of faith on this one

My trauma.....when I'm at my worst can cause me acute pain. My stress can cause me physical and mental discomfort which sometimes can induce pain. I can do self-hypnosis to reduce or eliminate pain.....by reducing stress.

Yes. This is exactly what I was wondering. If anything, my 'brain jogging' will increase my stress-levels when attempting to process very difficult and confusing information. And might I be unknowingly over-exciting my brain's pain signals during these brain jogging attempts. This might also contribute to mental fatigue.

As I understand it.....CRPS is not caused by stress. It is caused by a physiological problem that goes awry, and the pain is out of proportion to what is should be...and lasts longer than it should. With that said, the literature is clear that the cause of CRPS is not stress or mental illness....but left untreated, it often does lead to psychological issues and even the worsening of the original pain. Apparently years ago it was believed to be caused by stress or mental illness....apparently that is not the case now adays........from what I've read.

If you are comfortable, can you give me an example of what you might consider information that is too confusing, that causes you stress, and then pain?
Is the information usually trama-related or just memory related?

I ask you these questions because when I process trauma, I can get some awful stomach pains that can have me doubled over....and I don't know if that is a defensive mechanism at work.....I can't pin it down. I'm just aware ready if it happens. It's not uncommon to feel sick when dealing with trauma issues. And I want to say, you've had invasive surgery, a number of times so the consequences of that, combined with prior trauma and other neurological hurdles....so it may be kinda hard to pin down. I hope you figure this out.

 

[spinningmytires]

Okay.....I'm going to take a leap of faith on this one

My trauma.....when I'm at my worst can cause me acute pain. My stress can cause me physical and mental discomfort which sometimes can induce pain. I can do self-hypnosis to reduce or eliminate pain.....by reducing stress.

As I understand it.....CRPS is not caused by stress. It is caused by a physiological problem that goes awry, and the pain is out of proportion to what is should be...and lasts longer than it should. With that said, the literature is clear that the cause of CRPS is not stress or mental illness....but left untreated, it often does lead to psychological issues and even the worsening of the original pain. Apparently years ago it was believed to be caused by stress or mental illness....apparently that is not the case now adays........from what I've read.

If you are comfortable, can you give me an example of what you might consider information that is too confusing, that causes you stress, and then pain?
Is the information usually trama-related or just memory related?

I ask you these questions because when I process trauma, I can get some awful stomach pains that can have me doubled over....and I don't know if that is a defensive mechanism at work.....I can't pin it down. I'm just aware ready if it happens. It's not uncommon to feel sick when dealing with trauma issues. And I want to say, you've had invasive surgery, a number of times so the consequences of that, combined with prior trauma and other neurological hurdles....so it may be kinda hard to pin down. I hope you figure this out.

@TruthSeeker I agree my pain symptoms don't resemble CRPS. As to my direct experience of stress related pain -- I do recall feeling a tighten in my stomach when trying to learn to play guitar cords. It just felt so unnatural to me to be moving the fingers of my left hand that way. With my effort the stomach knot would increase that decrease when I'd stop. But then, due to trauma -- I don't think so. I would just simply dissociate to avoid the discomfort.

My 'brain's processing shutdown and brain jogging' activity might have originated during school or earlier due to my TBI during infancy. My first recall of this 'brain processing shutdown occurred while extremely stressed and fearful of my 4th grade school teacher's demands. I was fearful of making word errors when reading aloud and perhaps felt safer during my shutdown. These shutdowns would certainly prevent me from speaking and of even thinking the wrong word as these would anger my teacher. So then I'd begin to panic because I couldn't think. This might have then lead to my brain jogging activity. But this is mostly speculation on my part.

My aphasia confuses me on a daily basis. For example, I'll walk up to a door and suddenly feel confused because the sign on the door reads, either PUSH or PULL and I can't understand their difference. To me, PUSH or PULL hold the same meaning. I think my brain might only be processing the 'PU' of these words while ignoring their more detailed 'LL' or 'SH.' So here my processing might when confronted with this duality might lock-up -- as to me the 'PU' of both words holds the exact same meaning. Earlier in this thread I mentioned confusing the words 'more' with 'most.' Here again, I'll process the 'MO' of both words while ignoring the 're' and 'st.' For another example, I'll confuse the words 'can' and 'can't.' Here my brain will process the 'CAN' within both words while ignoring the ''t' of 'can't.' And so I'll mistakenly read these words as 'can and can' instead of 'can and can't.' This is an over-simplification of my aphasia yet might help to explain my repeated brain jogging attempts.

I must be careful in using self-hypnosis as I have traumatic experiences with amnesia that I wouldn't want to bring into my conscious mind. During my 20s, I did briefly practice meditation by emptying my mind of thoughts which then only seemed to intensify my anxieties. Later during my 30s, I practiced hypnosis with my T as a means of relaxation therapy where the focus was only on my muscle tension and that was fine. This practice didn't involve using any visualizations at home. The visualizations only occurred when with my T and under his guidance. When visualizing I have to intentionally direct my focus onto something otherwise, the emptiness or nothingness within my mind seems to evoke my anxieties.

As fo my trauma -- I'm not processing my trauma right now, as I don't even know how I've been traumatized beyond my resoved CSA. I have an idea yet this is way beyond my understanding. I really only know that I have amnesia and that I dissociate easily.

 

[joeylittle]

If anything, my 'brain jogging' will increase my stress-levels when attempting to process very difficult and confusing information.

This is entirely possible, given that you were diagnosed with some kind of brain damage when you were a child (damage caused learning disability and aphasia), and then had surgery in 2018 to remove a benign brain tumor - surgery which has caused some loss of brain function (not an uncommon thing).

With two definitive neurological incidents like that - the first assumption f(or absolutely every other symptom you experienced in between them) should be that you're dealing with functional issues caused by the diagnosed brain damage. And after your recent surgery, things have gotten a bit worse.

You attribute your fibro and brain fog to a time when you had an extreme emotional shock (sequential deaths of loved ones). But it's far more likely you were experiencing somatic pain resulting from your brain's response to stress, and the brain fog was grief and situational depression.

The fact that you can feel pain resulting from thinking too hard - as far as I'm aware, that's always been possible in people living with significant neurological damage. It's phantom pain - more properly called somatization.

Your brain itself can't hurt - no nerves in there. But it sends all the signals to the rest of the body, and that can include mis-firing pain signals.

Really, all I'm trying to say is: there's a very straightforward explanation. You were diagnosed with brain damage significant enough to cause adolescent aphasia and LD. Later in life, you were diagnosed with a slow growing benign tumor, and had it surgically removed - and you experience some loss of brain function as a result.

Maybe instead of trying to think harder when you're experiencing a memory or attention lapse - give yourself permission to either use an external aid like voice recordings or notes. See if that reduction in stress helps everything else.

I'm not a doctor. I know I'm talking like one - but I'm not. I am concerned, though...do you have anyone helping you at home?

 

[TruthSeeker]

I agree 100% w joeylittle that instead of brain jolting......which you are concerned may be causing pain, identifying strategies to make your life easier and implement them to improve immediate functioning, and decrease in the moment stress. There are lots of great apps out there, and eventually everyone as they get older has "deficit areas"....
and the best we can do is to use daily coping strategies to keep stress levels manageable.

 

[Justmehere]

@spinningmytires - You expressed in your introduction thread that after refusing mental health care, your primary care doctor has replaced your PTSD diagnosis with schizophrenia.

Have you been working on getting a new mental health work up with a neuropsychologist? They are very skilled at sorting out issues just like these. Alternatively, connecting with therapist who specializes in trauma and does more than talk therapy may also be really helpful.

I think that’s your best next step to finding relief from the pain in light of the complexity of your symptoms and depth of suffering.

 

[spinningmytires]

This is entirely possible, given that you were diagnosed with some kind of brain damage when you were a child (damage caused learning disability and aphasia), and then had surgery in 2018 to remove a benign brain tumor - surgery which has caused some loss of brain function (not an uncommon thing).

With two definitive neurological incidents like that - the first assumption f(or absolutely every other symptom you experienced in between them) should be that you're dealing with functional issues caused by the diagnosed brain damage. And after your recent surgery, things have gotten a bit worse.

You attribute your fibro and brain fog to a time when you had an extreme emotional shock (sequential deaths of loved ones). But it's far more likely you were experiencing somatic pain resulting from your brain's response to stress, and the brain fog was grief and situational depression.

The fact that you can feel pain resulting from thinking too hard - as far as I'm aware, that's always been possible in people living with significant neurological damage. It's phantom pain - more properly called somatization.

Your brain itself can't hurt - no nerves in there. But it sends all the signals to the rest of the body, and that can include mis-firing pain signals.

Really, all I'm trying to say is: there's a very straightforward explanation. You were diagnosed with brain damage significant enough to cause adolescent aphasia and LD. Later in life, you were diagnosed with a slow growing benign tumor, and had it surgically removed - and you experience some loss of brain function as a result.

Maybe instead of trying to think harder when you're experiencing a memory or attention lapse - give yourself permission to either use an external aid like voice recordings or notes. See if that reduction in stress helps everything else.

I'm not a doctor. I know I'm talking like one - but I'm not. I am concerned, though...do you have anyone helping you at home?

I was beginning to notice an obvious dysfunction of my balance, muscle coordination and muscle strength five months prior to my brain surgery. Yet this developed so gradually that's difficult to realize. One friend later told me that it looked like I was dragging my leg when I walked though she never mentioned this until after my surgery -- while I never noticed this but only my awkwardness.

My tumors were only discovered in 2013 during a CT scan for unrelated vertigo. I was supposedly without tumor symptoms at that time because these tumors weren't large enough to cause pressure. Yet I seemed to have subtle symptoms even 10 years prior to my surgery. So I'm thinking that even when quite small these tumors might still be disrupting my cerebellar functions.

During my 20s when my sister and I would play own guitars together I could never change guitar cords nearly as fast as she could. Perhaps this was tumor related. About 20 years ago my vocational evaluation reported that my motor skills were slower than normal.

My CSF blockage and pressure might have caused brain damage with my resulting coma. Then too, my MRI reports go back to 2013 before my CSF blockage occurred for a comparison. During my coma the MRI reported that my brain was very slightly tilted off center. The MRI following surgery hadn't reported any additional damage but only a bit of debris and staining -- of what I could understand. I've noticed no additional body pain nor increase in pain over the past 15 years or so. My first recall of experiencing a burning fibro pain occurred many years ago during my mid 40s.

My two surgeries hadn't increased my pain levels at all as these seem totally unrelated. My last painful migraine occurred a few months prior to my first surgery. As for my cognition I haven't noticed any significant decline, confusion nor mini-strokes not before nor since my two surgeries.

So then my TBI could be causing a chronic mis-firing of pain signals in the same way that this TBI has been causes my aphasia dysfunction. This would certainly make sense as being a somatization. This might also explain what my doctors have often be baffled by my unexplainable symptoms for much of my life. Also my TBI episodes during infancy might have been many and not always in the same brain area. The whooping cough I endured for several weeks. The tumors I've had since birth.

When my mother, sister and father suddenly died -- my symptoms were abundant -- too many to list. Perhaps at that time feeling numb and hardly awake was a good thing. Yet even a slight scratch on my skin would take forever to heal.

Computer apps and digital devices can be very helped. I need to brush up on these options. My writing also drains me of energy while disrupting my sleep. I think so hard that I then can't sleep.

As for my life -- thank you for your concerns @joeylittle . No, I don't have anyone helping me out at home. I've been living alone now for 20 years and so far so good. I have one good online friend where we message each other nearly every day while often enjoying each others humor. I haven't seen him in about 15 years since he lives too far away.

Family phone calls are few -- about six so far this year with the longest being about 15 minutes. Half of these calls I made. I keep the conversation light yet still they don't like to talk on the phone.

Face to face visits with family -- there have been three this year of nearly one hour each with my sister-in-law while my brother had attended two of these visits at their home. We keep the conversation light and impersonal. There are just too many deeper painful issues that we avoid and this might contribute to the impersonal nature of these visits. My sister-in-law and brother have driven me a few times when I was unable to drive myself for medical reasons. Yet I really don't like to ask anyone to help me out in anyway.

Socially -- about two years ago I had a falling out with a local community group. This was where most of my social activities occurred. Yet I had done nothing wrong and only had expressed my opinion which was not directed towards any individual. It's just that about 5% of this group didn't like my opinion and have since slandered me with their public emails or by word of mouth. I've been in this group for decades with not conflicts. Now I don't know if I have the courage to rejoin this group after the virus restrictions are lifted. A few have remained friendly towards me. I'm sure that they must be aware of this conflict yet have chosen to ignore it. Still this is difficult for me.

I'm not looking for any kind of therapy right now. My mood is good and stable. I avoid negative thoughts as they can too easily pull me down. My anxieties are low. I'm trying to live in the present moment where as the future is beyond my control. I have my interests in art, music and a few other things. I'll often visualize the people who had once genuinely smiled at me and then I won't feel so alone.

 

[spinningmytires]

@spinningmytires - You expressed in your introduction thread that after refusing mental health care, your primary care doctor has replaced your PTSD diagnosis with schizophrenia.

Have you been working on getting a new mental health work up with a neuropsychologist? They are very skilled at sorting out issues just like these. Alternatively, connecting with therapist who specializes in trauma and does more than talk therapy may also be really helpful.

I think that’s your best next step to finding relief from the pain in light of the complexity of your symptoms and depth of suffering.

No I haven't been seeking any new mental health work ups with a neuropsychologist.

As for my PCP -- What she had actually said to me during the conclusion of my last visit was that, she thinks I'm schizophrenic and living in denial of my schizophrenia. She then removed the PTSD from my medical records and replaced it with Dissociation Episodes.

Her comment about schizophrenia had only been her only opinion. Schizophrenia is not currently listing in my online records though it had been listed between 2001 and mid 2018. Then in 2018 after my surgery this diagnosis was replaced with PTSD - suspected victim of sexual abuse.

My PCP told me that I need to talk to someone and for more than just a few sessions. Well yeah sure but then this isn't easy. And so I tried to explain to her why talk therapy no longer helps me. This was upsetting her and I didn't want to do that.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I was beginning to notice an obvious dysfunction of my balance, muscle coordination and muscle strength five months prior to my brain surgery. Yet this developed so gradually that's difficult to realize. One friend later told me that it looked like I was dragging my leg when I walked though she never mentioned this until after my surgery -- while I never noticed this but only my awkwardness.

My tumors were only discovered in 2013 during a CT scan for unrelated vertigo. I was supposedly without tumor symptoms at that time because these tumors weren't large enough to cause pressure. Yet I seemed to have subtle symptoms even 10 years prior to my surgery. So I'm thinking that even when quite small these tumors might still be disrupting my cerebellar functions.

During my 20s when my sister and I would play own guitars together I could never change guitar cords nearly as fast as she could. Perhaps this was tumor related. About 20 years ago my vocational evaluation reported that my motor skills were slower than normal.

My CSF blockage and pressure might have caused brain damage with my resulting coma. Then too, my MRI reports go back to 2013 before my CSF blockage occurred for a comparison. During my coma the MRI reported that my brain was very slightly tilted off center. The MRI following surgery hadn't reported any additional damage but only a bit of debris and staining -- of what I could understand. I've noticed no additional body pain nor increase in pain over the past 15 years or so. My first recall of experiencing a burning fibro pain occurred many years ago during my mid 40s.

My two surgeries hadn't increased my pain levels at all as these seem totally unrelated. My last painful migraine occurred a few months prior to my first surgery. As for my cognition I haven't noticed any significant decline, confusion nor mini-strokes not before nor since my two surgeries.

So then my TBI could be causing a chronic mis-firing of pain signals in the same way that this TBI has been causes my aphasia dysfunction. This would certainly make sense as being a somatization. This might also explain what my doctors have often be baffled by my unexplainable symptoms for much of my life. Also my TBI episodes during infancy might have been many and not always in the same brain area. The whooping cough I endured for several weeks. The tumors I've had since birth.

When my mother, sister and father suddenly died -- my symptoms were abundant -- too many to list. Perhaps at that time feeling numb and hardly awake was a good thing. Yet even a slight scratch on my skin would take forever to heal.

Computer apps and digital devices can be very helped. I need to brush up on these options. My writing also drains me of energy while disrupting my sleep. I think so hard that I then can't sleep.

As for my life -- thank you for your concerns @joeylittle . No, I don't have anyone helping me out at home. I've been living alone now for 20 years and so far so good. I have one good online friend where we message each other nearly every day while often enjoying each others humor. I haven't seen him in about 15 years since he lives too far away.

Family phone calls are few -- about six so far this year with the longest being about 15 minutes. Half of these calls I made. I keep the conversation light yet still they don't like to talk on the phone.

Face to face visits with family -- there have been three this year of nearly one hour each with my sister-in-law while my brother had attended two of these visits at their home. We keep the conversation light and impersonal. There are just too many deeper painful issues that we avoid and this might contribute to the impersonal nature of these visits. My sister-in-law and brother have driven me a few times when I was unable to drive myself for medical reasons. Yet I really don't like to ask anyone to help me out in anyway.

Socially -- about two years ago I had a falling out with a local community group. This was where most of my social activities occurred. Yet I had done nothing wrong and only had expressed my opinion which was not directed towards any individual. It's just that about 5% of this group didn't like my opinion and have since slandered me with their public emails or by word of mouth. I've been in this group for decades with not conflicts. Now I don't know if I have the courage to rejoin this group after the virus restrictions are lifted. A few have remained friendly towards me. I'm sure that they must be aware of this conflict yet have chosen to ignore it. Still this is difficult for me.

I'm not looking for any kind of therapy right now. My mood is good and stable. I avoid negative thoughts as they can too easily pull me down. My anxieties are low. I'm trying to live in the present moment where as the future is beyond my control. I have my interests in art, music and a few other things. I'll often visualize the people who had once genuinely smiled at me and then I won't feel so alone.

No I haven't been seeking any new mental health work ups with a neuropsychologist.

As for my PCP -- What she had actually said to me during the conclusion of my last visit was that, she thinks I'm schizophrenic and living in denial of my schizophrenia. She then removed the PTSD from my medical records and replaced it with Dissociation Episodes.

Her comment about schizophrenia had only been her only opinion. Schizophrenia is not currently listing in my online records though it had been listed between 2001 and mid 2018. Then in 2018 after my surgery this diagnosis was replaced with PTSD - suspected victim of sexual abuse.

My PCP told me that I need to talk to someone and for more than just a few sessions. Well yeah sure but then this isn't easy. And so I tried to explain to her why talk therapy no longer helps me. This was upsetting her and I didn't want to do that.

Vertigo/balance issues are a symptom of dissociation. When my dissociation is significant, my balance is off. So, your balance issues have been happening a long while.....and maybe tumor....maybe more likely dissociation related. Dissociation also causes memory loss....significant memory loss. So, since you have a mental health history, I'd strongly consider getting a mental health provider with considerable experience in dissociative disorders and PTSD. My first goal would be to actively work on grounding skills and see if you can get a handle on staying in the present, do your balance issues and memory issues improve. Your brain is hardwired for escape if you dissociate, I have found that learning to stay grounded has been the most helpful thing I've learned that keeps me from having so many memory issues......I think getting someone who has had lots of experience with dissociative disorders and who keeps current, because the field is changing is more important than whether they are a neuropsychiatrist.....many psychiatrists here have more experience prescribing than doing therapy. Consider all your options, what your goal is for this thread issue (like were you looking to improve things and create an action plan or just curious what other people thought? Your user name suggests you are stuck.......is that the case?

 

[spinningmytires]

Vertigo/balance issues are a symptom of dissociation. When my dissociation is significant, my balance is off. So, your balance issues have been happening a long while.....and maybe tumor....maybe more likely dissociation related. Dissociation also causes memory loss....significant memory loss. So, since you have a mental health history, I'd strongly consider getting a mental health provider with considerable experience in dissociative disorders and PTSD. My first goal would be to actively work on grounding skills and see if you can get a handle on staying in the present, do your balance issues and memory issues improve. Your brain is hardwired for escape if you dissociate, I have found that learning to stay grounded has been the most helpful thing I've learned that keeps me from having so many memory issues......I think getting someone who has had lots of experience with dissociative disorders and who keeps current, because the field is changing is more important than whether they are a neuropsychiatrist.....many psychiatrists here have more experience prescribing than doing therapy. Consider all your options, what your goal is for this thread issue (like were you looking to improve things and create an action plan or just curious what other people thought? Your user name suggests you are stuck.......is that the case?

My vertigo in 2013 was something I had never experienced before. It occurred very suddenly due to an ear infection. It was freaky -- as suddenly I didn't know which way to move my arms nor legs and severe. I was diagnosed via CT scan with one overnight hospital stay. -- I was released feeling fine 24 hours later. No more veritgo since then.

Due to the small tumor discovery in that CT scan they ordered my first MRI. I was tested for a balance disorder -- some of which involved following a oscillating dot with my eyes while listening to a contradicting ticking of a clock. Yet I was told that my balance test results were excellent in 2013. I think my own vertigo (inner ear issue) can be ruled out as a symptom of dissociation. But then not everyone is the same.

The slow growing tumors in my cerebellum were there at birth. These tumors have disrupted my balance yet as what age did this first begin -- a good question. About 2010, I was beginning to notice very subtle balance difficulties. Yet this only gradually increased until I fall into a coma in 2018. I doubt that this type of balance disorder is related to my dissociation. I'm not even aware of experiencing symptoms related to my dissociation other than a significant change in my heart beat. But then I only knew that my heart beat had been racing because I read it in my medical report. During my dissociation I've felt mostly numb and have sometimes felt muscle tension.

If my dissociation is causing memory loss perhaps this might be related to my amnesia. Some of these lost memories will return within a day or two. One memory had only returned three years later.

Yes I'm stuck and have been for most of my life -- my first few weeks were good.